base talk Sales ≠ cultural impact, why?

[Solaria]

This video by the Swiftologist is having a little moment on Twitter, in which his essential point is that TTPD does have cultural impact because no one other than Taylor Swift can pull off it's weekly units. And that the argument 'it's only big because of Taylor herself' is basically a non-argument.

 

 

I just find it funny that when it comes the topic of cultural impact, sales are taken into account. That doesn't apply to almost every other artform. So why do we still pretend we should count sales in a topic about subjectivity? Keep the objective metrics for the 'who is bigger or who sold more' arguments.

[Solaria]

'Still more impact than Radical Pessimism'

'You should be worried about Dua Falling Forever from the charts'

'Imagine having the time to write this'

 

Lets get that out of the way! Now discuss

[Badgalbriel]

15 minutes ago, Solaria said:

This video by the Swiftologist is having a little moment on Twitter, in which his essential point is that TTPD does have cultural impact because no one other than Taylor Swift can pull off it's weekly units. And that the argument 'it's only big because of Taylor herself' is basically a non-argument.

 

 

I just find it funny that when it comes the topic of cultural impact, sales are taken into account. That doesn't apply to almost every other artform. So why do we still pretend we should count sales in a topic about subjectivity? Keep the objective metrics for the 'who is bigger or who sold more' arguments.

Who said sales are not taken into account when discussing cultural relevance for other artforms? A combination of  boxoffice and acclaim are exactly what defines which movies were the more cultural relevant movies of the year. 

 

Consumption is not what determines cultural relevance. It's a result of cultural relevance. 

 

Sales are not the cause, they are the symptoms. 

Edited August 13 by Badgalbriel

[Mikeymoonshine]

I think sales are a factor in impact but they really never justified the whole impact = consumption thing. In what way does Dance Monkey have more impact than like any other streaming era single by a woman? Like sure it has some impact from being so successful as I've heard of it and so have a lot of other people but I don't think it has more impact than Brat. 

[Wicked]

56 minutes ago, Solaria said:

I just find it funny that when it comes the topic of cultural impact, sales are taken into account. That doesn't apply to almost every other artform. So why do we still pretend we should count sales in a topic about subjectivity?

Because people are more sensitive and personally attached to music than other artforms. With that, the only tangible to discuss is numbers. 

 

Its why folks get mad at award shows when the highest selling album loses. An album they've never heard of, is invalid because of that. It's too much work and not fun to actually follow music without numbers influencing you.

 

But I would fight back on your point it never applies to other artforms, people were fighting with TV critics about not giving the most viewed shows on TV the same reverence as lesser watched ones. People were mad The Good Doctor wasn't receiving the same coverage as Succession but thankfully, television fandom isn't built on numbers anyway so it didn't become as big of a discussion as the music equivalent would.

 

Edited August 13 by Wicked

[Spicy Pisces]

The difference should be objective and bias-free, not from the lens of a swiftie. There're solid reasons why this album is widely being called out for "not making any noise" and only known for being a sales hit. This isn't happening only in ATRL, X, or from OTH. It would be understandable if Midnights had these numbers and its impact wouldn't be this much questioned.

 

 

But go off swiftologina you know what

31 minutes ago, Solaria said:

the Swiftologist is having a little moment on Twitter

have it!

[By the Water]

12 minutes ago, Spicy Pisces said:

The difference should be objective and bias-free, not from the lens of a swiftie. There're solid reasons why this album is widely being called out for "not making any noise" and only known for being a sales hit. This isn't happening only in ATRL, X, or from OTH. It would be understandable if Midnights had these numbers and its impact wouldn't be this much questioned.

Except the same things were said about Midnights. People even said AH was not a real hit and was only known by her fans

[Dear Reader]

well one thing I know he devoured for sure: "Taylor is embedded into the brains of every stan that isn't a swiftie" 

[zoldyck]

Because 'cultural impact' is term invented by stan culture to make up for lacks of sales, so of course they are not equal

[Badgalbriel]

24 minutes ago, Spicy Pisces said:

The difference should be objective and bias-free, not from the lens of a swiftie. There're solid reasons why this album is widely being called out for "not making any noise" and only known for being a sales hit. This isn't happening only in ATRL, X, or from OTH. It would be understandable if Midnights had these numbers and its impact wouldn't be this much questioned.

 

 

But go off swiftologina you know what

have it!

Theres literally no valid argument outside of these 3 bubbles (atrl, x, OTH) being made about this album that actually means anything. There's yet to have an album in 2024 capable of causing all this conversation. There's no an album in 2024 being toured in the biggest tour of all time as well. Being seen by the biggest crowds all those stadiums have ever held. You know, the people going to those events are real people, they're not bots. 

[Gorjesspazze9]

Sales do play a part in cultural impact tho. Look at Celine Dion, Britney, Eminem, Adele. You can't become a phenomenon without selling

[Escape]

It's a combination of things and sales is one of them.

 

Oh, and the album is clearly having an impact on you.

[piotrert]

people say avatar has no cultural impact. people are dumb

[mons†er]

Just because you sell a lot of records doesn't mean you have cultural impact. All that says is you're a great salesman and have fantastic marketing. 

 

Having cultural impact means changing the dynamic of the current culture or bringing the culture forward to the masses so they can gain some knowledge and insight. Taylor Swift has done not done either of these things. She's just a music artist that has sold a lot of records.

[Badgalbriel]

1 minute ago, mons†er said:

Just because you sell a lot of records doesn't mean you have cultural impact. All that says is you're a great salesman and have fantastic marketing. 

 

Having cultural impact means changing the dynamic of the current culture or bringing the culture forward to the masses so they can gain some knowledge and insight. Taylor Swift has done not done either of these things. She's just a music artist that has sold a lot of records.

What is this made-up definition I just read here

[mons†er]

Just now, Badgalbriel said:

What is this made-up definition I just read here

Please tell me what cultural impact has Taylor Swift had. 

 

Quote

Cultural impact is the influence or changes that certain factors cause in various aspects of society, such as values, beliefs, behaviors, norms, traditions, and language usage.

 

[Klein]

Sales and cultural impact cannot be devoid of one another though. You need something to be known in the first place for it to have a shot at cultural impact, and sales are a direct reflection of that popularity. That doesn't mean sales alone give you cultural impact though. 

[Nico Robin]

Taylor is like THE main pop star right now everywhere on the globe. Maybe the album itself hasnt made that much noise culturally but her name and especially her tour has

[Badgalbriel]

1 minute ago, mons†er said:

Please tell me what cultural impact has Taylor Swift had. 

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_impact_of_Taylor_Swift

 

[ugo]

If you have cultural impact why can't you sell an arena ? Can charli xcx?

 

 

[Kimi]

What do you mean why?  Cause sales are just that, sales. We buy **** all the time and then forget it all the time. The Velvet Underground & Nico sold 30k in the first 5 years yet became revolutionary album and gave birth to like 30 sub genres of rock. I'm sure, during the same time, some albums sold millions of records yet hardly anyone remembers them. You have to stop living in the moment so much and look at the history of music. Idk bands like WASP, Dokken or Air Supply sold millions and still faded. 

[Wicked]

6 minutes ago, Kimi said:

You have to stop living in the moment so much and look at the history of music.

Imagine doing that. 

[TrashMagiq]

TTPD doesn't have big cultural impact, Taylor has big cultural impact. Years from now people aren't going to be talking about TTPD, they'll talk about Taylor Swift during her peak. She has a lot of fans that buy and stream her music, but outside of her fanbase and people in the whole "stan" world, people aren't talking about TTPD. They are however talking about Taylor as a huge figure in pop culture. 

[TrashMagiq]

1 hour ago, Badgalbriel said:

Who said sales are not taken into account when discussing cultural relevance for other artforms? A combination of  boxoffice and acclaim are exactly what defines which movies were the more cultural relevant movies of the year. 

 

Consumption is not what determines cultural relevance. It's a result of cultural relevance. 

 

Sales are not the cause, they are the symptoms. 

I kinda agree with this, but in this case TTPD's sales are a result of Taylor's cultural relevance, not the album's cultural relevance. Any other album attached to her name at that point would've pulled the numbers TTPD did.

[teenager]

TTPD does have cultural impact, it's going to be remembered as being as the an album that was repackaged and shoved down the throats of the GP with new variants weekly