base talk Why isn't Sam Smith regarded as a queer icon?

[Yog]

1 hour ago, GipJo said:

They are a queer icon for queer people, but not a queer icon for straight people for obvious reasons, that's okay. As for their music, only their first album is great, rest are albums with 1 or 2 hits here and there, so not even musically interesting to be a music icon.

You make it sound like Sam was an niche artist being marketed just towards the gays when it was the opposite, Sam has literally sold damn near 50 million albums & 300 million singles, gays are not the only ones buying their music..

Edited August 7 by Yog

[Sad Beautiful Tragic]

Just now, Namiskine said:

Denying that what they represent STILL is something that straights and lots of LGBT+ are not confortable with is certainly a choice.

 

Example: their latest smash Unholy. I've seen the gays celebrate this song's success way more for rapist enabler Kim Petras than for Sam themselves. It does say a lot about the community, let alone the rest of the world in an ever-rising far-right climate. 

 

[dumbsparce]

28 minutes ago, GipJo said:

They are a queer icon for queer people, but not a queer icon for straight people for obvious reasons, that's okay.

I think it's the exact opposite. They're not regarded as an icon within queer circles and they're one of the first queer artists non-queer ppl think of.

[foundwonderland]

31 minutes ago, Sheep said:

Quoting my own post to give concrete examples such as: 

Religious guilt

 

Body image issues

 

Repressed sexuality/respectability politics

 

 

This really is the whole answer, it just takes a lot of different forms, no offense to anybody I quoted. 

How is having some sort of decency and not being trashy = repressed sexuality? LMAO. 

[Sheep]

10 minutes ago, foundwonderland said:

How is having some sort of decency and not being trashy = repressed sexuality? LMAO. 

People who are experiencing or have experienced some kind of repressed behavior are prone to resent those who aren't confined in the same way. The fact of the matter is that Sam has pulled stunts that are extremely sexualized but so has every one of ATRL favs including many of the biggest queer icons ever and it's not labelled trashy by the same people, the person I quoted with that literally had a gif of Charli XCX licking a wall in a faux-rave scene on their profile. If you use any sort of critical thinking you would see that decency isn't the issue here. 

Edited August 7 by Sheep

[Kimi]

55 minutes ago, RideOrDie said:

they need to be an icon for starters

 

no matter how many times yall try to make it happen legend is not a step above icon, those terms are interchangeable

 

[Princess Aurora]

I think Sam Smith is underrated in the LGBTQ+ world.

[Soda Pop Queen]

LOL they're not a queer icon?? in the real world???

 

I bet the only place where they aren't considered one is here. Self-hate and hate for others drives this forum

[Digitalism]

58 minutes ago, Sheep said:

Internalized queerphobia. When an angry LGBT cringes at Sam, what they're seeing is a reflection of some aspect of themselves or their community that they have not yet learned to accept. This has made it difficult for Sam to find stable footing in their career after more freely expressing themself. 

Where is the tiktok video where you learned that? I want to know more.

[Happylittlepunk]

I think Sam does deserve to be title a gay icon maybe he won't see it now but I do believe we will see it in about 10 years from now. 
 

lol that gif is so funny too me. 

[Yog]

2 minutes ago, Happylittlepunk said:

I think Sam does deserve to be title a gay icon maybe he won't see it now but I do believe we will see it in about 10 years from now. 
 

lol that gif is so funny too me. 

Especially with more non binary artists & trans artists coming down the line through the years, I feel that's exactly where their queer legacy will prevail.

[Sheep]

4 minutes ago, Digitalism said:

Where is the tiktok video where you learned that? I want to know more.

https://www.tiktok.com/@palpatinethepink/video/7274185978221284640

 

Gotchu bestie 

[Mocha]

they would be 100x times more celebrated and stanned if the was muscular and sexy, that's the sad truth

Edited August 7 by Mocha

[JO1s]

Because he doesn't fit queer beauty standards.

[Yog]

2 minutes ago, Mocha said:

they would be 100x times more celebrated and stanned if the was muscular and sexy, that's the sad truth

Being Skinny didn't spare them from ridicule during the thrill of it all era either

[Almighty Gaga]

Because what is Sam Smith's contribution to the queer community to be considered a queer icon?

[BrokenMachine]

Their art post-2020 became too disruptive and rage-baiting at some points. Also, pop music is all about pretty privilege, and Sam lacks some aspects of it. Maybe in a few years everyone will forget the mess Gloria era was and will give Sam their deserved flowers for their 2013-2020 work

[Sad Beautiful Tragic]

34 minutes ago, Sheep said:

People who are experiencing or have experienced some kind of repressed behavior are prone to resent those who aren't confined in the same way. The fact of the matter is that Sam has pulled stunts that are extremely sexualized but so has every one of ATRL favs including many of the biggest queer icons ever and it's not labelled trashy by the same people, the person I quoted with that literally had a gif of Charli XCX licking a wall in a faux-rave scene on their profile. If you use any sort of critical thinking you would see that decency isn't the issue here. 

Wake them up!

It seems they only object to tacky, over-sexualised pop stars when it's Sam Smith. Right? @Yog

 

[Domination]

I say this as someone who has a great respect for Sam, but Sam's brand has always showcased a heavy dose of insecurity and coming to terms with one's self, be it when they released their first albums about being in love with a straight guy to Gloria and them coming out as non-binary and the dramatic revamp of their image.

 

Super random comparison but if Sam were going to be regarded as a queer icon they'd need to have more of an attitude like Jeffrey Star, who basically demands respect despite being extremely visibly gender non-conforming.

[Tsareena]

I think they're queer and sort of a music icon but not really a "queer icon" because they haven't had an era or really even a song that was big in queer spaces mainstream or even underground. Doesn't mean they aren't appreciated for what they've achieved or anything but no one's running to recreate an iconic Sam look at Halloween or playing "unholy" in the club

[Yog]

1 minute ago, BrokenMachine said:

Their art post-2020 became too disruptive and rage-baiting at some points. Maybe in a few years everyone will forget the mess Gloria era was and will give Sam their deserved flowers for their 2013-2020 work

That's not gonna be the case anymore going forward as Sam is definitely working on branding back to their more safer & appropriate image pre Gloria, and their upcoming 5th albums leaked studio sessions are suggesting it's an return to form to their R&B/Soul roots, then you have the recent reissue of their debut and BBC Prom that showcases their talent to much revaluation on TikTok.

 

 

[TipToe]

Because unlike lady gaGA he didn't win an Academy Award thus is not legend like her Edit: he also won the same award, he's a legend too!

 

[Dante Silva]

The thing is, when Sam first came on the music scene they were marketed as the male Adele and when an artist comes back with a vastly different look and attitude people are asked to confront what they know of "In The Lonely Hour" Sam with "Gloria" era Sam and to some people Sam represents cosplay care of a dodgy stylist. Queer Icons (whether they are Pete Burns or Lady Gaga) come out the gate from their first single/ album era with their look and statement of intent already fully formed.

[modeblock]

Because the music wasn't giving what Sam thought it as giving. It rang HOLLOW. It was not good enough. 

 

Sure for some it may be queerphobia or fatphobia (as both are unfortunately rampant in our community), but on an artistic level, they did not bring anything new to the table or a genuinely fresh perspective on queer-forward artistry. They look like they're going thru their parents closet and trying on random stuff. It doesn't convey a clear, concise vision that we expect from MPG-level artists and true Queer icons like Freddy Mercury. 

[Heldenzeit]

They are in my house