Communion Posted May 21 Posted May 21 Just now, Illuminati said: You got me there with my language barrier because I have no idea what this is supposed to mean Back to the question in the first page of this thread, what is your prediction for the US in the next 4 years after you beat Biden? Again, there's no other way to take your posts besides that you are arguing for hating the very minority groups you pretend to care about. "Beat Biden". Please be serious. This is why your nationality is brought up. Because while we are almost all queer, it's very jarring of a visual to have what are often affluent white European gay men with high-incomes continually disparage the most disenfranchised demographics in America, let alone when theyre not mocking poor Americans in some classist culture war. What makes you feel entitled as an affluent gay white man to disparage poor women of color in states like Wisconsin or Michigan? Who do you actually think are these Dem-lean non-voters that you're angry at? And we know that's what you're doing because we can just compare to 2016. Did poor black people "go out and beat Hillary"? I mean, that's what happened by your logic. Clinton lost because black turnout collapsed in poor counties in the Rust Belt. So you're arguing poor black non-voters "worked to beat Clinton and help Trump"? What? Establishment Democrats already let Trump win in 2016. No one is waxing theories to you about what-if's because some of us actually alresdy lived it. And we're telling you the only way to prevent it from happening again.
Communion Posted May 21 Posted May 21 14 minutes ago, karron0624 said: Not a negative trump thread becoming about Biden. Never change ATRL. 14 hours ago, Illuminati said: But I was told they're the same 14 hours ago, Miss Show Business said: Can't wait to see what *those* users say when the first immigrant concentration camps get set up. What will be the excuse when you can no longer blame Biden for everything? I mean, yes. When people do things like the 2nd and 3rd quotes and re-center everything bad Trump does as an excuse to defend unrelated things Biden does, you're going to routinely have this and you lowkey deserve thea result. For as long as people display their interest in the horrors of Trump start and stop at defending Biden's own issues, you're going to have to suffer this same endless circular debate and really have only people like the above to blame.
Illuminati Posted May 21 Posted May 21 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Communion said: Again, there's no other way to take your posts besides that you are arguing for hating the very minority groups you pretend to care about. I throw it back at you, who do you sincerely care about by advocating AGAINST Biden? It's laughable that you try to make me, an east european at the brink of going to war as a privileged man as opposed to you on the opposite side of the world who clearly suffers from having too much free time and can't decide which minority he doesn't belong in to equip for an atrl comment today. You are aggressively projecting victim mentality being an american sis me: i am talking to you directly and this comment addresses you you: i can't believe you just said that to a woman i never met Edited May 21 by Illuminati 3 1
Communion Posted May 21 Posted May 21 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Illuminati said: advocating AGAINST Biden This is not how politics work. Politicians don't get to be people. No one is advocating against Biden. You can only interpret criticisms of his electoral strategy as such if you think somehow Biden The Person is what matters and not Biden The Candidate. It is not "advocating against" Biden to recognize Biden must do x, y and z to win. Biden doesn't get to have autonomy. He is the manifestation of the Democratic party base and must contour his own feelings and views to us, the base. Literally the most basic of thought experiments debunks this nonsense. Ex: If Bernie Sanders won the nomination in 2020 and then came out in favor of saying some abortion rights should be sacrificed for class issues...what would the reaction be? Would outrage by the base be silenced as "advocating against Sanders and helping Trump win"? Tell me what you think the answer would be. Your mindset was wrong in 2016. It was wrong in 2020. It's still wrong in 2024. You're going to continually face pushback and getting yourself worked up online by running defense for geriatric politicians putting themselves before saving democracy and purposefully straying from their median voter base. You've taken what could have been a really great discussion about how and why the Republican have fallen so far into fascism and ruined it to center some pet issue you have with the 60% of Americans who live in poverty and do not cast a vote every 4 years? Edited May 21 by Communion 1
Illuminati Posted May 21 Posted May 21 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Communion said: This is not how politics work. Politicians don't get to be people. No one is advocating against Biden. You can only interpret criticisms of his electoral strategy as such if you think somehow Biden The Person is what matters and not Biden The Candidate. It is not "advocating against" Biden to recognize Biden must do x, y and z to win. Biden doesn't get to have autonomy. He is the manifestation of the Democratic party base and must contour his own feelings and views to us, the base. Literally the most basic of thought experiments debunks this nonsense. Ex: If Bernie Sanders won the nomination in 2020 and then came out in favor of saying some abortion rights should be sacrificed for class issues...what would the reaction be? Would outrage by the base be silenced as "advocating against Sanders and helping Trump win"? Tell me what you think the answer would be. Your mindset was wrong in 2016. It was wrong in 2020. It's still wrong in 2024. You're going to continually face pushback and getting yourself worked up online by running defense for geriatric politicians before themselves before saving democracy and purposefully straying from their median voter base. You've taken what could have been a really great discussion about how and why the Republican have fallen so far into fascism and ruined it to center some pet issue you have with the 60% of Americans who live in poverty and do not cast a vote every 4 years? Biden must do more, and he can only do more by being elected. Do we agree on this or is there more behind it to justify Trump calling for another reich? Your mindset in 2016 got people in permanent roles that still cripple dems to this day, that's not debatable Edited May 21 by Illuminati 1
Communion Posted May 21 Posted May 21 15 minutes ago, Illuminati said: me: i am talking to you directly and this comment addresses you you: i can't believe you just said that to a woman i never met You're actively disparaging non-voters and promoting others express hostility to them. It's not just enough for you to convince myself to vote for Biden, you actively want then those you convince to also be openly hostile to others who do not vote like some religious conversion. So yes, it's not about *me* but who non-voters are at large. Just like I don't actually care that *you're* sharing your thoughts from Lithuania. It's what you represent as just one of several members expressing views that amount to abstract and privileged finger-wagging that disparages poor Americans. It's valid to not vote. It's valid to feel as though voting for Biden won't change anything. It's sad that people feel hopeless but you must accept the reality that they do. And Biden must work to convince those people otherwise - and only Biden, the candidate, can do that- and those who excuse Biden from trying to earn votes and stop Trump from winning are helping Trump to win. There's really no other fact of the matter to it.
Communion Posted May 21 Posted May 21 5 minutes ago, Illuminati said: Biden must do more, and he can only do more by being elected How do candidates get voters to elect them. Quickly.
Illuminati Posted May 21 Posted May 21 6 minutes ago, Communion said: How do candidates get voters to elect them. Quickly. Your prediction for the US in 4 years when Biden finally gets kicked out, quickly!!! We've been waiting since page 1 You narrowed your position down to save the minorities against evil Biden, tell us how that's going to happen 3 1
Communion Posted May 21 Posted May 21 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Illuminati said: Your mindset in 2016 Hillary Clinton literally didn't campaign in the state of Wisconsin. I'm sorry but you're gonna have to take the L for her being a dumb ass. Anyone whose takeaway from 2016 - let alone now alnost a decade later - is still that "Hillary was right to not campaign and the voters were wrong,". You're genuinely a Republican psyop. Please leave Demcorat's business to Democrats. Thank you. Like there's no purpose to this continuing if that's where we are stuck. Trump was a nazi in 2016. Trump was a nazi in 2020. Trump is still a nazi in 2024. Please stop advocating strategies we know can't beat him. Edited May 21 by Communion
Illuminati Posted May 21 Posted May 21 3 minutes ago, Communion said: You're genuinely a Republican psyop I'm hearing this from a person advocating for Trump 3 1
wastedpotential Posted May 21 Posted May 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, Communion said: Also - "HOW DARE you say Biden is sabotaging his re-election???' Reality: We're gonna suffer under Trump because some of you and Biden value weird religious prophecies about Israel over our democracy. Oh my.god. nnn sis I haven't bothered commenting on this before and it's wildly off topic and a total non sequitur, but... you are aware that Catholics aren't rapturists, right? You might not be up on your religious history, but the modern prophetic rapture movement spun out of baptist evangelical books from the 70s in SoCal, and I seriously doubt that Biden was exposed to them (aside from his Republican colleagues, from whom I doubt he took away anything that would cause him to sway from the Papal interpretation of Revelations). You seem be confusing him and his beliefs for those of Dubya and his ilk (who ARE supporting Israel because they want it to lose the big war so that Jesus can come back), but Biden's support for Israel is incredibly unlikely to have any inherent religious motivation. It's all about keeping in AIPAC's good graces or whatever "unsinkable aircraft carrier" memos are getting passed around the Pentagon crowd. I know it's a good punch line, but it's just... categorically false OT: Trump echoing Nazi imagery... fork found in kitchen, other news at 10. Edited May 21 by wastedpotential 1
GhostBox Posted May 21 Posted May 21 Its is not valid to not vote. Not voting does not take away ones responsibility for what happens if Trump wins. If one votes 3rd party or not at all. You are just as responsible for what Trump does as the ones who voted for him. 🤷 2 1
Communion Posted May 21 Posted May 21 I 47 minutes ago, Illuminati said: I'm hearing this from a person advocating for Trump Repeating falsehoods over and over like an incanatation won't work btw. Collaaping polls are reality. Collasping donations are reality. Please join us in reality. The threat of Trump is far too great to not address that we must adopt strategies that can actually defeat him.
Redstreak Posted May 21 Posted May 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, Illuminati said: You got me there with my language barrier because I have no idea what this is supposed to mean Back to the question in the first page of this thread, what is your prediction for the US in the next 4 years after you beat Biden? Sis you should know by now you'll never get a direct answer on realities because all he can deal in is hypotheticals. He'll just ask you what you think about X to deflect instead of ever having to put his foot down on something specific because that's more difficult than trying to argue from a perfect timeline that doesn't exist Edited May 21 by Redstreak 2 1
Communion Posted May 21 Posted May 21 Just now, Redstreak said: Sis you should know by now you'll never get a direct answer You got a direct answer and more. It's no one else's fault if it simply didn't turn into some gotcha. You're propelled by cultism that you genuinely think progressives like Trump and can't reconcile with the reality that such is just not true. You've rejected all non-true believers and would let Trump win to prove leftists wrong that they know better than Biden on how to win. It's a cult prepping for mass suicide. "So what is the plan if Trump wins?? You think everything will be fine, huh???" "Of course not. Trump is a fascist. That's why he must be stopped." "So you're gonna stop criticizing Biden then, right???" "Criticizing Biden's failing campaign strategy is how you prevent Trump from getting elected* *incoherent liberal screeching*
Redstreak Posted May 21 Posted May 21 Just now, Communion said: You got a direct answer and more. It's no one else's fault if it simply didn't turn into some gotcha. You're propelled by cultism that you genuinely think progressives like Trump and can't reconcile with the reality that such is just not true. You've rejected all non-true believers and would let Trump win to prove leftists wrong that they know better than Biden on how to win. It's a cult prepping for mass suicide. "So what is the plan if Trump wins?? You think everything will be fine, huh???" "Of course not. Trump is a fascist. That's why he must be stopped." "So you're gonna stop criticizing Biden then, right???" "Criticizing Biden's failing campaign strategy is how you prevent Trump from getting elected* *incoherent liberal screeching* All this just to still not answer a simple question 1 1
Communion Posted May 21 Posted May 21 Just now, Redstreak said: All this just to still not answer a simple question The answer is quite literally in the post you quoted?
Redstreak Posted May 21 Posted May 21 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Communion said: The answer is quite literally in the post you quoted? Someone asked for your specific prescriptions for the next four years (tactics, politicians to bolster, ways of negating trumps influence) if trump wins and you instead sent me a made up conversation about Biden Edited May 21 by Redstreak 1
Rep2000 Posted May 21 Posted May 21 1 hour ago, Illuminati said: I'm hearing this from a person advocating for Trump Actually worse. That one is a legit tankie who roots for Putin/China. 2
Communion Posted May 21 Posted May 21 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Redstreak said: Someone asked for your specific prescriptions (tactics, politicians to bolster, ways of negating trumps influence) Oh, that's literally not the question they asked Quote what is your prediction for the US in the next 4 years after To which it was clearly answered: Of course things are going to get worse because Trump is a fascist. Their question did not in any way ask to hear my thoughts on *how* to survive Trump - most would assume a foreign national claiming working class progressives want to "beat Biden" because we criticize him isn't interested in such. Edited May 21 by Communion
Redstreak Posted May 21 Posted May 21 Just now, Communion said: Oh, that's literally not the question they asked To which it was clearly answer: Of course things are going to get worse because Trump is a fascist. Their question did not in any way ask to hear my thoughts on *how* to survive Trump - most would assume a foreign national claiming working class progressives want to "beat Biden" because we criticize him isn't interested in such. Ok well *I've* certainly asked you that have never gotten a straight answer I feel like if everyone on a website gives you the same criticism then something isn't clicking 1 1
Onyxmage Posted May 21 Posted May 21 7 hours ago, Sawk said: I'm so scared, I've been fearing this type of sh*t for a hot minute, when he wins there's going to be a big paradigm shift in culture; gays, you better be careful going into 2025, it's gonna get really f*cking bad for us. The gays dont care. At least not on here because apparently Biden is just as bad as Trump. 1
Capris Groove Posted May 21 Posted May 21 8 hours ago, Communion said: And? The user in question is arguing that American progressives secretly want Trump to win. So...where is that? Where has that been said? Have I typed it in a secret code? Have I snuck it in somewhere in a foreign language to go undetected? Are there snippets of "Hail Trump" written in a 2nd language in a tiny font somewhere? Are there hieroglyphics scattered about detailing this secret support for Trump? Is what's written done so in gibberish? Is there a sleight of hand meant to trick and slip up the non-native English speaker? There's nothing wrong with not speaking English as a first language. English is not somehow more superior (it's actually a pretty nonsensical language and I can barely speak it as my only language). But then the issue is either: 1) a language barrier is occuring or (more likely) 2) those claiming leftists support Trump are gaslighting and arguing in bad faith. Because if I type "Trump is evil but I don't think Biden can beat him by copying his policies" and the response is "you want Trump to win," It's either a language barrier or people making those comments are trolling in bad faith. So which is it? Can only be one or the other. You're getting quite defensive here. Only trying to point out the comment you made is the type of thing that people who are ESL hear often. Native English speakers can't quite relate because they speak the world's lingua franca, so everything tends to adapt to them. It's marginalizing and you can get this exact point across without the language dig. 1
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