Cheers Posted May 20 Posted May 20 We get it, Biden sucks azz. But yall would really let Trump win again just to prove a point we are so fawked 5
wastedpotential Posted May 20 Posted May 20 2 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said: Who said the word perfect? Biden is so weak he's underperforming down ballot Dems and losing key Democratic demographics like Gen Z, Black American, Arab American, and moderate Dems even. Get off the sinking ship. And go where, exactly?
GraceRandolph Posted May 20 Posted May 20 3 minutes ago, Hex said: You love in a fanatsy world. This conversation is not about dreaming of a perfect candidate. It's about who will actually be on a ballot… which is not changing no matter how much we want it to. You need to accept this. Trump has EXPLICITLY expressed that we are not doing enough to help Israel. YOU refusing to vote and encouraging others not to will help us HELP ISRAEL MORE. Like ???? What's not clicking here. WHAT'S THE PLAN?QUICKLY?
Devin Posted May 20 Posted May 20 3 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said: Who said the word perfect? Biden is so weak he's underperforming down ballot Dems and losing key Democratic demographics like Gen Z, Black American, Arab American, and moderate Dems even. Get off the sinking ship. he might be weak but collectively we needa go with the better of the worst 2.0 2 1
GraceRandolph Posted May 20 Posted May 20 2 minutes ago, GhostBox said: Or you could temporarily patch the hole in the ship and continue traveling until you can get another one that's better . but I forgot some here prefer/likes the "burn it down strategy" better 💀 What's your strategy for patching the hole that Dems have created themselves?
Hex Posted May 20 Posted May 20 4 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said: Who said the word perfect? Biden is so weak he's underperforming down ballot Dems and losing key Democratic demographics like Gen Z, Black American, Arab American, and moderate Dems even. Get off the sinking ship. GET OFF THE SHIP AND GO WHERE? Are you new to politics? I mean that not as an insult but it sounds like you are naive enough to believe we have any other option. We do not and won't. Accept that. 2
Communion Posted May 20 Posted May 20 2 minutes ago, GhostBox said: Or you could patch the whole in the ship What policy change will Biden be announcing to achieve this and reverse this:
Hex Posted May 20 Posted May 20 1 minute ago, Devin said: he might be weak but collectively we needa go with the better of the worst 2.0 Like how hard is this to understand? Nobody likes either two but one is maybe 100x worse 7
GraceRandolph Posted May 20 Posted May 20 Just now, Hex said: GET OFF THE SHIP AND GO WHERE? Are you new to politics? I mean that not as an insult but it sounds like you are naive enough to believe we have any other option. We do not and won't. Accept that. Support a third party candidate and protest Biden. 1 5
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted May 20 ATRL Moderator Posted May 20 9 minutes ago, Hex said: Trump has EXPLICITLY expressed that we are not doing enough to help Israel. YOU refusing to vote and encouraging others not to will help us HELP ISRAEL MORE. Like ???? What's not clicking here. Biden just gave a billion in aid to Israel after suggesting disapproval for crossing his alleged red line of invading Rafa. The argument that Trump is worse for Gaza than Biden when Gaza will likely be gone by January 20, 2025 is a moot point. 1
GhostBox Posted May 20 Posted May 20 (edited) 2 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said: Support a third party candidate and protest Biden. So you basically just want to drill another hole in the "sinking ship" 😂 Edited May 20 by GhostBox 1 1
wastedpotential Posted May 20 Posted May 20 5 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said: Still not getting the fantasy of how a Biden who is unleashed from having to worry about re-election will continue pretending he believes Palestinians are human beings. I really just don't see it... I can't argue that Trump will be any worse for Palestinians because there's not much lower he can go, but I think I can argue that there is a zero percent chance he will be better than Biden. Thus, no matter who wins the election, the Palestinians are utterly ******. No matter how you vote (or not vote), the outcome will be the same in Gaza. Thus, we might as well shift the electoral conversation to the issues where the candidates differ. 1
GraceRandolph Posted May 20 Posted May 20 Just now, wastedpotential said: I can't argue that Trump will be any worse for Palestinians because there's not much lower he can go, but I think I can argue that there is a zero percent chance he will be better than Biden. Thus, no matter who wins the election, the Palestinians are utterly ******. No matter how you vote (or not vote), the outcome will be the same in Gaza. Thus, we might as well shift the electoral conversation to the issues where the candidates differ. Biden has to own what he has enabled. Enough of this "but Trump!!!" **** is compelling people in 2024. 1
Devin Posted May 20 Posted May 20 5 minutes ago, Hex said: Like how hard is this to understand? Nobody likes either two but one is maybe 100x worse trump made it clear his intentions if he returns and open to take his anger out on anyone who wanted him out + he shown his true colors during his presidency. stats-wise he could win but if stick together we have a fighting chance. but we also need biden & dems to showcase why the people should vote blue this election.
Devin Posted May 20 Posted May 20 5 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said: Support a third party candidate and protest Biden. cmon now. 1
GraceRandolph Posted May 20 Posted May 20 6 minutes ago, Hex said: Like how hard is this to understand? Nobody likes either two but one is maybe 100x worse If Americans agreed with this then why isn't Biden leading Trump in like… any swing state?
GraceRandolph Posted May 20 Posted May 20 6 minutes ago, GhostBox said: So you basically just want to drill another hole in the "sinking ship" 😂 No, since the Dems have consistently proven to be incapable of fighting the far right/MAGA it's time to build a new strategy because expecting the party that said Hillary was soooo electable in 2016 and unleashed Trump on us via the pied piper strategy of the Clinton campaign to defeat fascism is a fool's errand.
wastedpotential Posted May 20 Posted May 20 1 minute ago, GraceRandolph said: Biden has to own what he has enabled. Enough of this "but Trump!!!" **** is compelling people in 2024. Sister, polls in May do not reflect choices that will be made in November. There are millions of people who will be hired, and who will be fired, and who will move, and who will turn 18, and who will die before November 5th, and those numbers in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin are far from decisive. Let's come back to this conversation in late September, when we will hopefully have a clearer picture of what the electorate will be doing in November 2 1
Communion Posted May 20 Posted May 20 Come on fellow centrist adults. What's the policy proposal to win back Jiill Stein voters. I'm all ears! Trump must be stopped so let's get those policy whitepapers flowing!
Devin Posted May 20 Posted May 20 georgia, michigan, and pennsylvania are typically blue states due to their big cities but they outskirt hick towns are very red. recently they swinging bc of biden's broken promises.
wastedpotential Posted May 20 Posted May 20 11 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said: Support a third party candidate and protest Biden. The only third party candidates with the ballot access necessary to make 270 are Jill Stein (who will have to win every single state the Greens are competing in, down to Mississippi and South Carolina to make that happen), and whoever the Libertarian ends up being (probably Chase Oliver, who's just as bad on Gaza as Biden or Trump). Unless everyone I know here in Texas is secretly planning on voting for the Greens, I just don't see this being a viable alternative.
GraceRandolph Posted May 20 Posted May 20 1 minute ago, wastedpotential said: Sister, polls in May do not reflect choices that will be made in November. There are millions of people who will be hired, and who will be fired, and who will move, and who will turn 18, and who will die before November 5th, and those numbers in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin are far from decisive. Let's come back to this conversation in late September, when we will hopefully have a clearer picture of what the electorate will be doing in November Let's remember that at this point in 2020 is when the polls began to favor Biden. Expecting the polls to be completely off is a horrible strategy because they do not exist in a vacuum and fit into other metrics of dissatisfaction with Biden like his low approval rating which is one of the worst in the last 7 decades, the success of the uncommitted campaign, the withdrawal of high profile endorsements, frustration with inflation, and an overall lack of interest in this election. 1
GraceRandolph Posted May 20 Posted May 20 1 minute ago, wastedpotential said: The only third party candidates with the ballot access necessary to make 270 are Jill Stein (who will have to win every single state the Greens are competing in, down to Mississippi and South Carolina to make that happen), and whoever the Libertarian ends up being (probably Chase Oliver, who's just as bad on Gaza as Biden or Trump). Unless everyone I know here in Texas is secretly planning on voting for the Greens, I just don't see this being a viable alternative. It's not about who is going to win in 2024. Politics don't begin and end with singular elections. What we need is to show to the Democrats that we will build a separate political coalition if the DNC is unable to meet our demands and isn't working for us, which is a fairly mainstream belief among Dems atm. We can't just give unconditional support to any political party. 1
ClashAndBurn Posted May 20 Posted May 20 4 minutes ago, Devin said: georgia, michigan, and pennsylvania are typically blue states due to their big cities but they outskirt hick towns are very red. recently they swinging bc of biden's broken promises. Before 2020, Georgia hadn't gone blue in a statewide race since the 1990s.
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