wastedpotential Posted May 20 Posted May 20 13 minutes ago, Bloo said: My point is Biden should have made a much sharper distinction between himself and Trump to minimize the number of voters that feel this way. All the responses of, "Oh, well, you choosing to not vote Biden because of Gaza is stupid because Trump would have done the same and probably even worse," is a great reflection of this problem. People don't feel like they have noticeable options to make a meaningful choice. Oh I agree that there is a laundry list of things Biden should have done differently, but it's too late to have that conversation. There are four choices that can be made on Election Day (Trump, Biden, 3rd Party, Stay Home), and 3 of the 4 (in swing states, at least) enable a Trump victory. And as I've said up-thread, I do think choosing to not vote for Biden because of Gaza is a bit odd given Trump's record in Yemen, but however y'all choose to rationalize your decisions is up to you. And I do think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of the threat that Trump poses amongst members of the electorate who aren't reading through what he and his surrogates are saying they'll do on day 1 (well, those of us who don't agree with him). The press isn't covering his rallies like they were and most people are brushing off his more radical claims with "oh, well he was stopped by guardrails last time", except he's got people around him with screwdrivers and they're disassembling the guardrails as we speak. 3
Hex Posted May 20 Posted May 20 I have zero respect for anyone who lives in a swing state and refuses to vote this year. Selfish behavior for a back pat. 3 1
Communion Posted May 20 Posted May 20 (edited) 17 minutes ago, GhostBox said: it's Biden vs trump. A (Hillary Clinton being deeply unpopular) + B (rebuking the progressive base of her own party) = Huge Ass Loser X (Joe Biden's reputation being mildly contentious) + Y (forced to make concessions to the progressive wing of his party) = Beats Trump X (Joe Biden being now deeply unpopular) + B (rebuking the progressive base of his own party) = ? What part of this formula then has to change if your argument is that half of it already can't change? Why are some of you so bad at math? Edited May 20 by Communion 1
GraceRandolph Posted May 20 Posted May 20 Just now, Hex said: I have zero respect for anyone who lives in a swing state and refuses to vote this year. Selfish behavior for a back pat. I have zero respect for people who shame voters who draw the line at genocide. 2 7
Devin Posted May 20 Posted May 20 its too late to invest in another candidate. most of us would prefer a stronger candidate, but that wouldn't have much time to win the people over and some folks would just select the other "familiar" name in the race. unless biden sadly falls ill we arent seeing an alt dem candidate tbh. 1
GraceRandolph Posted May 20 Posted May 20 Just now, Devin said: its too late to invest in another candidate. most of us would prefer a stronger candidate, but that wouldn't have much time to win the people over and some folks would just select the other "familiar" name in the race. unless biden sadly falls ill we arent seeing an alt dem candidate tbh. No it's not. A candidate swap at the convention is possible if Biden bungles the debates. We just need to demand it. 6
Hex Posted May 20 Posted May 20 Just now, GraceRandolph said: I have zero respect for people who shame voters who draw the line at genocide. Glad you'd rather take even worse genocide AND social conservatism that'll result in less abortion rights, less LGBT rights and conservative judges plaguing our courts for years to come! Woohoo! 2 1
GraceRandolph Posted May 20 Posted May 20 Just now, Hex said: Glad you'd rather take even worse genocide AND social conservatism that'll result in less abortion rights, less LGBT rights and conservative judges plaguing our courts for years to come! Woohoo! Glad you see Palestinians as so worthless you'd throw them away to prop up a ridiculous, unpopular candidate like Biden. 2
Communion Posted May 20 Posted May 20 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Hex said: Glad you'd rather take even worse genocide A Joe Biden is going to lose to Trump unless he listens to progressives. No whining, complaining, shouting into the void, or coordinated downvoting of progressives saying truths you don't like hearing is going to change sentiments held by the average non-partisan American voter. No progressive "would rather" have any conservative. We're apparently the only adults in the room who seemingly understand that this is not a viable strategy to win: Edited May 20 by Communion 2 1
GhostBox Posted May 20 Posted May 20 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Communion said: A (Hillary Clinton being deeply unpopular) + B (rebuking the progressive base of her own party) = Huge Ass Loser X (Joe Biden's reputation being mildly contentious) + Y (forced to make concessions to the progressive wing of his party) = Beats Trump X (Joe Biden being now deeply unpopular) + B (rebuking the progressive base of his own party) = ? What party of this formula then has to change if your argument is that half of it already can't change? Why are some of you so bad at math? Biden has listened more to the progressive side of the party than any ever has 😂 It may not be up the the standards you want and that's ok. and again its still trump vs Biden . those are the two main candidates. Nothings gonna change that unless one of them croaks. Biden is the better option between the two on many issues. Edited May 20 by GhostBox
Hex Posted May 20 Posted May 20 1 minute ago, GraceRandolph said: Glad you see Palestinians as so worthless you'd throw them away to prop up a ridiculous, unpopular candidate like Biden. What other choice do we have besides him or Trump? NONE. The sooner you realize this, the better for those Palestinians you allegedly care about but will refuse to vote for the less deadly candidate… so a more deadly one can annihilate more Palestinians. Very good logic here! 2
Communion Posted May 20 Posted May 20 (edited) 5 minutes ago, GhostBox said: Cool. its still trump vs Biden . those are the two main candidates. Nothings gonna change that unless one of them croaks. So again, I will type it even slower if you need: 11 minutes ago, Communion said: A (Hillary Clinton being deeply unpopular) + B (rebuking the progressive base of her own party) = Huge Ass Loser X (Joe Biden's reputation being mildly contentious) + Y (forced to make concessions to the progressive wing of his party) = Beats Trump X (Joe Biden being now deeply unpopular) + B (rebuking the progressive base of his own party) = ? What part of this formula then has to change if your argument is that half of it already can't change? Why are some of you so bad at math? Biden is the candidate. He is currently on track to lose due to his personal choices and policy failures. Trump is going to win unless he reverses course. What's the plan to force him to do that? If you don't have a plan, then why are you fine with just letting Trump win? Edited May 20 by Communion
GraceRandolph Posted May 20 Posted May 20 1 minute ago, Hex said: What other choice do we have besides him or Trump? NONE. The sooner you realize this, the better for those Palestinians you allegedly care about but will refuse to vote for the less deadly candidate… so a more deadly one can annihilate more Palestinians. Very good logic here! You can demand a different choice. Your mentality is that of a race to the bottom. The only way we'll ever start getting higher quality candidate is if we actually demand them. Quit settling for crap just because of Trump. 3 3
wastedpotential Posted May 20 Posted May 20 7 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said: Maybe the establishment Dems need to put up a strong candidate against Trump rather than expecting voters to always swallow their **** sandwiches? Yes, they probably should have. Unfortunately, it's too late to change that decision given the filing deadlines. The Greens have ballot access for 318 EC votes, requiring them to sweep basically every single state they're contesting, and I don't think Jill Stein has the legs to win places like Mississippi, or South Carolina (and I'm highly doubtful about Texas), so she's already basically ineligible. The Libertarian nominee is looking to be Oliver, and he doesn't have a particularly rosy record on Israel. RFK Jr. has brain worms and Cornel West isn't serious. So, unless you're going to convince 50.1% of voters in a configuration of states that clears 270 EC votes to all write in the same name, the potential outcomes are Biden or Trump. Instead of running a winning candidate, the DNC decided to gamble on Trump making himself unelectable, and that didn't happen. That doesn't change the fact that those are the two choices. Which do you prefer? 1
Devin Posted May 20 Posted May 20 3 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said: No it's not. A candidate swap at the convention is possible if Biden bungles the debates. We just need to demand it. even if we demand it the trust factor is questionable. that alt candidate would have to come in swinging and standing by his/her word. otherwise the avg american isnt gonna take them seriously and take they chances on biden vs trump.
Lana Banana Posted May 20 Posted May 20 Didn't read any replies in this thread, but.. Good luck, America. Way to enter a flop era after the first ever black president of two terms. Truly the pits. Embarrassing. The only way to fix it is a civil war on the land itself. **** off with the second amendment, **** off with racists, **** off with Karens. Just… ugh…
GraceRandolph Posted May 20 Posted May 20 Corporate Dems will stop at nothing to drag us down with their sinking ship of a candidate. Enough of the race to the bottom!
wastedpotential Posted May 20 Posted May 20 8 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said: No it's not. A candidate swap at the convention is possible if Biden bungles the debates. We just need to demand it. Oh I thought we were having a serious conversation. Nevermind 3
GhostBox Posted May 20 Posted May 20 Just now, GraceRandolph said: You can demand a different choice. Your mentality is that of a race to the bottom. The only way we'll ever start getting higher quality candidate is if we actually demand them. Quit settling for crap just because of Trump. If the progressives wanted someone else they could've ran someone. not that anyone would've wanted to run anyway. Running against your own party's incumbent is a one way ticket to ending your career 💀 1
Camila Obama Cabello Posted May 20 Posted May 20 better than biden tbh i feel like america needs a strong leader like trump right now praying for my fellow american friends 2
Communion Posted May 20 Posted May 20 4 minutes ago, GhostBox said: It may not be up the the standards you want WHAT'S THE PLAN? QUICKLY?
Hex Posted May 20 Posted May 20 Just now, GraceRandolph said: You can demand a different choice. Your mentality is that of a race to the bottom. The only way we'll ever start getting higher quality candidate is if we actually demand them. Quit settling for crap just because of Trump. You love in a fanatsy world. This conversation is not about dreaming of a perfect candidate. It's about who will actually be on a ballot… which is not changing no matter how much we want it to. You need to accept this. Trump has EXPLICITLY expressed that we are not doing enough to help Israel. YOU refusing to vote and encouraging others not to will help us HELP ISRAEL MORE. Like ???? What's not clicking here. 2
GraceRandolph Posted May 20 Posted May 20 Just now, Hex said: You love in a fanatsy world. This conversation is not about dreaming of a perfect candidate. It's about who will actually be on a ballot… which is not changing no matter how much we want it to. You need to accept this. Trump has EXPLICITLY expressed that we are not doing enough to help Israel. YOU refusing to vote and encouraging others not to will help us HELP ISRAEL MORE. Like ???? What's not clicking here. Who said the word perfect? Biden is so weak he's underperforming down ballot Dems and losing key Democratic demographics like Gen Z, Black American, Arab American, and moderate Dems even. Get off the sinking ship. 1 1
ClashAndBurn Posted May 20 Posted May 20 Still not getting the fantasy of how a Biden who is unleashed from having to worry about re-election will continue pretending he believes Palestinians are human beings. I really just don't see it... 1
GhostBox Posted May 20 Posted May 20 (edited) 2 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said: Who said the word perfect? Biden is so weak he's underperforming down ballot Dems and losing key Democratic demographics like Gen Z, Black American, Arab American, and moderate Dems even. Get off the sinking ship. Or you could temporarily patch the hole in the ship and continue traveling until you can get another one that's better . but I forgot some here prefer/likes the "burn it down strategy" better 💀 Edited May 20 by GhostBox 4
Recommended Posts