Johnny Jacobs Posted May 6 Posted May 6 4 minutes ago, Earth Ripper said: I said it doesn't make a difference to the geopolitical situation. It DOES make a difference, though, to public discourse about Israel. As I said, this demand to condemn Hamas is literally part of a strategically designed propaganda campaign to distract from international law. Not playing by those propaganda rules has importance. Okay. Keep swirling through the "tough" questions i guess.
Delirious Posted May 6 Posted May 6 All the young ones under 30 voting for Trump have been brainwashed how unfortunate 1 4
GraceRandolph Posted May 6 Posted May 6 1 minute ago, Delirious said: All the young ones under 30 voting for Trump have been brainwashed how unfortunate What about the ground Biden has lost with Black and Hispanic voters? Are they brainwashed too? 2
Delirious Posted May 6 Posted May 6 Just now, GraceRandolph said: What about the ground Biden has lost with Black and Hispanic voters? Are they brainwashed too? Yes if you vote for Trump who literally hates POC, aka who literally built the Mexican wall, then yes, you are without a doubt brainwashed. 1 3
Earth Ripper Posted May 6 Posted May 6 Just now, Johnny Jacobs said: Okay. Keep swirling through the "tough" questions i guess. Is Israel an illegal occupier and colonizer of Palestine, yes or no? I am not willing to treat you like a worthy conversation partner until you say yes. Basically that's the turned tables version of what you're asking from us. I'm not interested to treat you that way because I actually want to have a conversation about Israel and Palestine. I care. I can only conclude that people like you who sarcastically refuse to enter that conversation because it's not rigged in their favor are just exposing their own lack of commitment to get somewhere. Poetic, really, as there's a clear equivalent in Israel's policies. The really awkward truth is that it's simply boring and uninteresting to condemn Hamas or call them a terrorist group. Most of us unproblematically accepted that as soon as we got educated about this subject. There's no charge there. It's quite literally one of the smaller issues about the history of Palestinian occupation. It's taboo to say because the public has been primed to interpret statements like that as a denial of the horrors of Israeli suffering, but they truly are not connected in any way. 3 5
ATRL Administrator Ryan Posted May 6 ATRL Administrator Posted May 6 Hamas agreed to a ceasefire proposal that Egypt and Qatar put together but Israel says it wasn’t the framework they agreed to. The war cabinet secretary claims they’ll meet to discuss it later but they’re still planning the offensive. Of course they are. 😒 3
Johnny Jacobs Posted May 6 Posted May 6 3 minutes ago, Earth Ripper said: I am not willing to treat you like a worthy conversation partner until you say yes. I don't care what you're willing. You didn't answer my question. I will not entertain you to your own needs.
Earth Ripper Posted May 6 Posted May 6 Just now, Johnny Jacobs said: I don't care what you're willing. You didn't answer my question. I will not entertain you to your own needs. lol My point displayed humorously well. (Read on, I wasn't actually asking you this question.) 1 1
Kassi Posted May 6 Posted May 6 1 hour ago, Earth Ripper said: Of course there's hesitation. Netanyahu invested in Hamas' presence exactly to derail the peace talks What I see as the basic problem, instead, is that people like you suddenly pretend that Israel and Palestine/Hamas are equal players in the game when we start talking peace processes. They are not and have not been. Palestine is being colonized. Israel is a colonizing power. This has to be the bottom line. If the bottom line in your conception of this conflict is an immutable narrative of colonizer and colonized, then, unfortunately, a resolution might never be achieved. I hope most people steer clear of this framework. As well intentioned as it might be, it's detrimental because it locks both sides into a fixed, adversarial position, preventing any possibility of dialogue or reconciliation. It encourages a zero-sum game where the complexities and nuances of the conflict (e.g. Jews wouldn't be there without the Holocaust) are overshadowed by black-and-white thinking. This approach not only deepens divisions but also makes the prospect of mutual understanding and compromise increasingly unlikely. That's pretty much all I have to say, since we're not going to be able to tie up every loose end of this conflict in here. Plus, there's already a Megathread for this type of discussion. 2 4
Thor Posted May 6 Posted May 6 3 hours ago, Kassi said: The reason they've lost so much is precisely because of refusing to compromise. How ******* dare you? 2
Thor Posted May 6 Posted May 6 2 hours ago, Ryan said: Literally doing the very opposite but okay. You're quite literally making excuses for a genocidal and fascist regime that is actively murdering thousands of innocent people, so yes, you are supporting the genocide of Palestinians.
Redstreak Posted May 6 Posted May 6 2 hours ago, Ryan said: Youre right, Communion. You're always right. Forgive me for ever disagreeing or doubting you. You've finally won be over. They're two sides of the same coin. The literal same evil. Please direct me to which write in candidate I should support. Forget the fact that I wasn't even defending Biden or whatever else your last couple of dissertations have covered, I was acknowledging one thing about why the deal wasn't likely accepted and you've spun it off into this unnecessary narrative. Honestly this is a continuing problem of him being unable to stay on topic and devolves nearly every political thread into nonsense 3 1
Johnny Jacobs Posted May 6 Posted May 6 37 minutes ago, Earth Ripper said: lol My point displayed humorously well. (Read on, I wasn't actually asking you this question.) Lol? Sounds fitting.
ATRL Administrator Ryan Posted May 6 ATRL Administrator Posted May 6 52 minutes ago, Thor said: You're quite literally making excuses for a genocidal and fascist regime that is actively murdering thousands of innocent people, so yes, you are supporting the genocide of Palestinians. I’m literally not but go off. 2
Shelter Posted May 6 Posted May 6 US will never agree to anything. Israel will never allow a 2 state solution.
State of Grace. Posted May 6 Posted May 6 (edited) 3 hours ago, Ryan said: I already told you I didn't ban him but I am going to ban you now. See you in two weeks. So...Jjang and rihannafan get banned (for nothing). Meanwhile, users like Kassi, GhostBox, playwithme, Gui Blackout, Johnny Jacobs, Delirious, HungryByTheBuffet, Zaram, My Tears Ricochet, Horizon Flame, RIKI232, Miss Show Business, Underclass King, and many many many others get to parade around the website posting and cosigning (in case you think you're getting away with it hiding in the likes) the most ****** up **** about Palestinians and spewing Hasbara like they get paid for it. Again, this is not a personal attack on you or any of the mods, but if this website really supports a Free Palestine as it says in the megathread, then I don't see why we have users engaging in Nakba and genocide denial roaming around freely. Unless we're considering that "free speech". Edited May 6 by State of Grace. 2 12 2
Gottasadae Posted May 6 Posted May 6 1 hour ago, State of Grace. said: So...Jjang and rihannafan get banned (for nothing). Meanwhile, users like Kassi, GhostBox, playwithme, Gui Blackout, Johnny Jacobs, Delirious, HungryByTheBuffet, Zaram, My Tears Ricochet, Horizon Flame, RIKI232, Miss Show Business, Underclass King, and many many many others get to parade around the website posting and cosigning (in case you think you're getting away with it hiding in the likes) the most ****** up **** about Palestinians and spewing Hasbara like they get paid for it. Again, this is not a personal attack on you or any of the mods, but if this website really supports a Free Palestine as it says in the megathread, then I don't see why we have users engaging in Nakba and genocide denial roaming around freely. Unless we're considering that "free speech". Guys you are serving Trump with his "witch hunt" victim effect. Isn't here a 6 pages of different attacks on Ryan labelling him a genocide supporter/apologist etc coz he has his own opinion different from your believes??? Same, like right now you're throwing under the bus another users in your rant coz they don't share your personal views. 2 7
Communion Posted May 6 Author Posted May 6 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Gottasadae said: Guys you are serving Trump with his "witch hunt" victim effect. Isn't here a 6 pages of different attacks on Ryan labelling him a genocide supporter/apologist etc coz he has his own opinion different from your believes??? Same, like right now you're throwing under the bus another users in your rant coz they don't share your personal views. This is the actual series of events: 1) Ryan defended the Biden admin rejecting the proposal, first quoting Blinken's rational of "eradication", and then clarifying he meant the need to "remove Hamas from power". 2) It was pointed out to him that this clarification didn't make sense as the proposal quite literally is about the PA replacing Hamas in power 3) We then got pages of commentary about members - not ideas - and banning a member for 2 weeks for seemingly upsetting an administrator. I'm not easily distracted though and thus I am still waiting for Ryan to explain how the PA replacing Hamas "doesn't ensure Hamas' removal from power". Having an opinion requires being able to be conscious of the accuracy of information. You first have to display you're able to accurately observe and relay facts before having an informed-enough opinion worthy of sharing. It's not a matter of difference in opinion when one is still waiting for someone to accurately read the source article. Would you like to answer the question for him? If Israel wants neither Hamas nor the Palestinian Authority in charge, then who? Edited May 6 by Communion 4 1
airplane Posted May 6 Posted May 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, State of Grace. said: So...Jjang and rihannafan get banned (for nothing). Meanwhile, users like Kassi, GhostBox, playwithme, Gui Blackout, Johnny Jacobs, Delirious, HungryByTheBuffet, Zaram, My Tears Ricochet, Horizon Flame, RIKI232, Miss Show Business, Underclass King, and many many many others get to parade around the website posting and cosigning (in case you think you're getting away with it hiding in the likes) the most ****** up **** about Palestinians and spewing Hasbara like they get paid for it. Again, this is not a personal attack on you or any of the mods, but if this website really supports a Free Palestine as it says in the megathread, then I don't see why we have users engaging in Nakba and genocide denial roaming around freely. Unless we're considering that "free speech". This!!! ITS DIGUSTING! The amount of times i have been warned for calling these people out for what they are yet they're still here?! Edited May 6 by airplane 2
Aethereal Posted May 6 Posted May 6 (edited) There is definitely some problems with Hamas still being in power cause they might turn West Bank into another Gaza and even a greater conflict will resume with already more deaths there than now. They also ruined the water pipelines which left most of people with undrinkable water. And as many have said no context justifies the "1,200 Israelis killed by Hamas" however this accurate logic is never applied to Palestinian victims. Why do the deaths +25,000 Palestinian civilians (this number is excluding Hamas members) deserve to be discussed in "appropriate context" and the slaughter of them to continue for the reason of removing Hamas? How is that justified? Edited May 7 by Aethereal 1
PoisonPill Posted May 7 Posted May 7 So the Israeli government is signaling it won't accept the deal, and has now begun another bombardment of Rafah. Devastating for the families of the hostages who were praying their loved ones were finally coming home. Devastating for the Palestinian children who continue to suffer unspeakable death, injury, starvation and trauma. Devastating for anyone hoping that this ugly chapter of history would finally come to an end.
GhostBox Posted May 7 Posted May 7 11 minutes ago, PoisonPill said: So the Israeli government is signaling it won't accept the deal, and has now begun another bombardment of Rafah. Devastating for the families of the hostages who were praying their loved ones were finally coming home. Devastating for the Palestinian children who continue to suffer unspeakable death, injury, starvation and trauma. Devastating for anyone hoping that this ugly chapter of history would finally come to an end. Israel wasn't even included in these talks. Of course they aren't going to agree to it 💀 it's time to face the fact neither side is going to agree to anything the other side wants Israel won't agree to anything Hamas wants and Hamas won't agree to anything Israel demands. in the end both sides need to compromise and work with each other and that's not gonna happen with the leaders who are in charge of Israel and Hamas right now 🤷 1 3
Delirious Posted May 7 Posted May 7 5 hours ago, State of Grace. said: So...Jjang and rihannafan get banned (for nothing). Meanwhile, users like Kassi, GhostBox, playwithme, Gui Blackout, Johnny Jacobs, Delirious, HungryByTheBuffet, Zaram, My Tears Ricochet, Horizon Flame, RIKI232, Miss Show Business, Underclass King, and many many many others get to parade around the website posting and cosigning (in case you think you're getting away with it hiding in the likes) the most ****** up **** about Palestinians and spewing Hasbara like they get paid for it. Again, this is not a personal attack on you or any of the mods, but if this website really supports a Free Palestine as it says in the megathread, then I don't see why we have users engaging in Nakba and genocide denial roaming around freely. Unless we're considering that "free speech". Girl shut up. Didn't you literally say a few hours ago that you were leaving this thread? Leave us alone Jesus christ 2
Earth Ripper Posted May 7 Posted May 7 8 hours ago, Kassi said: If the bottom line in your conception of this conflict is an immutable narrative of colonizer and colonized, then, unfortunately, a resolution might never be achieved. I hope most people steer clear of this framework. As well intentioned as it might be, it's detrimental because it locks both sides into a fixed, adversarial position, preventing any possibility of dialogue or reconciliation. It encourages a zero-sum game where the complexities and nuances of the conflict (e.g. Jews wouldn't be there without the Holocaust) are overshadowed by black-and-white thinking. This approach not only deepens divisions but also makes the prospect of mutual understanding and compromise increasingly unlikely. That's pretty much all I have to say, since we're not going to be able to tie up every loose end of this conflict in here. Plus, there's already a Megathread for this type of discussion. Except it is not a narrative, it is international law... And isn't allowing international law to guide us to a solution the best route to dialogue, reconciliation, complexity, nuance,...? Meanwhile you're invoking an actual narrative (the Jews wouldn't be there without the Holocaust) which is very unhelpful and avoids mutual understanding lol. The Jews wouldn't be there without Zionism and Zionism was bolstered because of the Holocaust is the more correct statement, and that matters because Zionism is not Judaism, and plenty of Jews around the world have no problem understanding that Israel is colonizing Palestinians. So I don't see this approach as deepening divisions. It has united Jewish, Arab, Christian, and secular humanitarian rights groups, legal advisory bodies, politicians across the spectrum,... You're talking in clichés and ignoring the elephant in the room: realistic and respectable peace proposals are being made and Israel and the US refuse to agree with them, despite American and Israeli public pressure. Who is thinking in black and white here? 6
Luckitty Posted May 7 Posted May 7 10 hours ago, Delirious said: Noones rejoicing this? Who said that? You're back to circle arguments and gas lighting again which is very usual for you. But this won't change the fact that Jjang is banned no? it won't change the fact that you felt personally attacked when i said there are racists in this thread without mentioning any names 1 1
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