album Taylor Swift - 'THE TORTURED POETS DEPARTMENT'

[FolkLover1989]

38 minutes ago, Dear Reader said:

Guys, a live album doesn't even need to be promoted or have physical copies 

live album will split streams from already existing songs and mess up the charts

 

we don't need it now

maybe when her albums are not relevant like this

 

let her discography breathe a little imo

 

let ttpd have a rollout too without competition 

[FolkLover1989]

We need all focus on ttpd now

 

her discography is aolready so big that it affects a new album let's not take away more attention

[QueenSerenity]

4 minutes ago, FolkLover1989 said:

We need all focus on ttpd now

 

her discography is aolready so big that it affects a new album let's not take away more attention

It’s becoming greedy. We’re getting a brand new studio album in a month and it’s still not enough for some.

[Lille]

I think anything (be it a live album, orphan re-recorded songs, etc) released right now before TTPD is a mistake, and I'm positive she knows that.

 

There is one month left until the album comes out, there's no reason to release anything else unrelated to it and risk deflating even a bit of the hype.

[queenoftheclouds]

No streams for TTPD then If the Live Album drops

[wastedpotential]

22 minutes ago, 1989 said:

You are absolutely 100% correct about that, and I wonder if that’s something that was always bubbling under the surface, even from the moment they got together. 

The emotional power imbalance coupled with their conflicting insecurities and career plans make me wonder (at least from a 2024 vantage point) how they made it as long as they did.  I guess in light of her attachment to (the idea of) him as her 'emotional savior', or however we want to frame it, the more and more we learn and will continue to learn the more and more I will feel deeply sorry for 2021/2022 Taylor. She tried so hard and put up with so much in the process of trying to build a healthy relationship on the 2016 foundations, and it just never worked for her 

[Dear Reader]

3 minutes ago, QueenSerenity said:

It’s becoming greedy. We’re getting a brand new studio album in a month and it’s still not enough for some.

It's not that it's not enough, it's just fun and games to guess what her next move is. It's not that serious.

 

1 minute ago, queenoftheclouds said:

No streams for TTPD then If the Live Album drops

The dramatics 

[QueenSerenity]

Just now, wastedpotential said:

The emotional power imbalance coupled with their conflicting insecurities and career plans make me wonder (at least from a 2024 vantage point) how they made it as long as they did.  I guess in light of her attachment to (the idea of) him as her 'emotional savior', or however we want to frame it, the more and more we learn and will continue to learn the more and more I will feel deeply sorry for 2021/2022 Taylor. She tried so hard and put up with so much in the process of trying to build a healthy relationship on the 2016 foundations, and it just never worked for her 

I’m curious. Do you believe Joe actually wrote/produced anything for Folkmore? I don’t at all and I’ve always wondered if she did this to boost his career/save their relationship. He seemed to have a bit of an ego about her fame.

[Lille]

1 minute ago, QueenSerenity said:

I’m curious. Do you believe Joe actually wrote/produced anything for Folkmore? I don’t at all and I’ve always wondered if she did this to boost his career/save their relationship. He seemed to have a bit of an ego about her fame.

Maybe he tinkled a few ivories, but I absolutely do not believe those writing credits she scammed after the fact are in any way indicative of how much input he had (ie. NONE).

 

I'm still mad at her about that, like why would force his name onto these works of art after the fact just so he can finally not be a failure? I want Jack to be messy and expose this eventually.

[Mandalore]

8 minutes ago, QueenSerenity said:

I’m curious. Do you believe Joe actually wrote/produced anything for Folkmore? I don’t at all and I’ve always wondered if she did this to boost his career/save their relationship. He seemed to have a bit of an ego about her fame.

Taylor is anecdotally VERY generous with giving credits, even to seasoned famous collaborators (see what Ryan Tedder, Aaron Dessner etc have said about it). Since they were in quarantine together during I believe it. (Could it have been exagerated? Possibly. But a flat-out lie? No, I don't think so) What I'm getting at is his contributions were probably very minimal and she wanted to include him in the project because she's that kinda partner 100%. 

Edited March 7 by Mandalore

[QueenSerenity]

Just now, Lille said:

Maybe he tinkled a few ivories, but I absolutely do not believe those writing credits she scammed after the fact are in any way indicative of how much input he had (ie. NONE).

 

I'm still mad at her about that, like why would force his name onto these works of art after the fact just so he can finally not be a failure? I want Jack to be messy and expose this eventually.

I think Taylor definitely regrets it. She briefly mentioned it in Bejeweled: “did all the extra credit, then got graded on a curve.”

 

What’s annoying is that the Joe widows and hatelors completely credit all of folkmore and her songwriting to him. She had to know something like that would happen. 

[wastedpotential]

7 minutes ago, QueenSerenity said:

I’m curious. Do you believe Joe actually wrote/produced anything for Folkmore? I don’t at all and I’ve always wondered if she did this to boost his career/save their relationship. He seemed to have a bit of an ego about her fame.

Maybe a bit of the writing, as it does seem slightly plausible to me that he was responsible for some of the piano melodies, but I'm dubious about his Sweet Nothing credit (it seems like shade at this point given the Paul connection). Coney island and exile/cp/evermore seem likely to me for a small chunk of the lyrics or melody, where there were other writers on the track who would probably have strong feelings about Taylor just giving some random person writing credits (and thus, a chunk of their royalties). 

 

However, I don't believe his production credits are true at all, as it really seems like a blatant scheme to get him a trophy out of the folklore AOTY win, given the Recording Academy rules at the time 

Edited March 7 by wastedpotential

[1989]

4 minutes ago, wastedpotential said:

The emotional power imbalance coupled with their conflicting insecurities and career plans make me wonder (at least from a 2024 vantage point) how they made it as long as they did.  I guess in light of her attachment to (the idea of) him as her 'emotional savior', or however we want to frame it, the more and more we learn and will continue to learn the more and more I will feel deeply sorry for 2021/2022 Taylor. She tried so hard and put up with so much in the process of trying to build a healthy relationship on the 2016 foundations, and it just never worked for her 

Yeah, as I said, I feel like she was putting bandaids on a lot in 2021/2022 and telling herself “this is fine, I can make this work”. 
 

It’s insane to think about where she was at even a year ago in that regard as opposed to present day. 

[Clauss]

2 hours ago, BlackJesus said:

she doesn't do lead singles before albums anymore...

and before that she would always do lead singles, why are we pretending she has to stick to one strategy when she has tried many in her career

[Mandalore]

10 minutes ago, wastedpotential said:

Maybe a bit of the writing, as it does seem slightly plausible to me that he was responsible for some of the piano melodies, but I'm dubious about his Sweet Nothing credit (it seems like shade at this point given the Paul connection). Coney island and exile/cp/evermore seem likely to me for a small chunk of the lyrics or melody, where there were other writers on the track who would probably have strong feelings about Taylor just giving some random person writing credits (and thus, a chunk of their royalties). 

 

However, I don't believe his production credits are true at all, as it really seems like a blatant scheme to get him a trophy out of the folklore AOTY win, given the Recording Academy rules at the time 

Only for him say on an interview that writing songs with her in quarantine was ''as basic as some people made sourdough''.  So backhanded in retrospect. Omg when I catch him on the London tube next summer...

 

 

Cut to late 2023:

 

Spoiler

 

Edited March 7 by Mandalore

[wastedpotential]

2 minutes ago, Mandalore said:

Only for him say on an interview that writing songs with her in quarantine was ''as basic as some people made sourdough''.  So backhanded in retrospect. Omg when I catch him on the London tube next summer...

 

 

 

I was going to make a joke about him not being able to afford a ticket but then I remember when I did the math (using admittedly generous songwriting points) and decided he'd made $940k from Spotify songwriting royalties alone (so excl. anything from any other revenue source and whatever he got (if any) for those ludicrous producer credits), so he probably can afford a ticket

 

[1989]

12 minutes ago, QueenSerenity said:

I’m curious. Do you believe Joe actually wrote/produced anything for Folkmore? I don’t at all and I’ve always wondered if she did this to boost his career/save their relationship. He seemed to have a bit of an ego about her fame.

Eh, I’ve always believed he had involvement in the melodies on those songs only, not the writing. Wasn’t it already known he could play piano? Folklore was made in the early part of quarantine (and Evermore started on not long after)—there were a lot of unknowns at the time and everyone was forced to stay home, it’s not far fetched to think he helped her a bit if she came to him with songs. I still don’t believe he had any involvement in the writing process, though. 
 

And yeah, I’ll always be suspicious of the Sweet Nothing credit. 

[wastedpotential]

8 minutes ago, 1989 said:

And yeah, I’ll always be suspicious of the Sweet Nothing credit. 

As for the Sweet Nothing credit, one thing that came to me after we found out that it's apparently about Paul ******* McCartney was that maybe Joe had helped with the core piano melody back during the time the folklore/evermore tracks were written (and it obviously didn't get used then), and then she dug it out of the archives and Midnights-ified it with the Wurlitzer as some subliminal dig at him. I seriously doubt Joe would've had anything to do with it, given that nearly the entire album was written while he was in Panama shooting The Stars at Noon after Taylor traveled down there in what seems to have been a failed attempt to rescue their relationship. I have a hard time believing he would've been involved at all (especially on such a sweet love song) at the exact same time that their relationship was undergoing its biggest strife ever.  

[Maroon legacy]

16 minutes ago, Klein said:

I still think it's very concerning that she started writing TTPD in early 2022 when the break up was only official more than a year later. It's very telling.

I think, their relationship were dead and she was writing songs for ttpd not really knowing if they will ever be released, but feeling like they will eventually. 
Here's how I see the last 2 years:
Her pen never lie, she writes songs about her life and on most Midnights tracks we can see a lot of sad moments, which she made us think are "scattered throughout her life". But in reality she already had a break-up thoughts and mixed feelings that she needed to put on music, but the goal was to make a pop album for the tour, so she returned to her folklore experience and started passing her emotions through the prism of blurry facts, confusing the listener as to what actually happened where and when. Midnights is partly a breakup album, but it would be wrong to promote it as such. She knew that she's about to release a loud pop album and go on her biggest tour, which would bring even more problems in their relationship. But to break up before the album comes out would mean to make people see this album through entirely different lense. It would be the Joeover album. But since they broke up only in 2023, we don't count it as such. So, my guess is that she knew that they will broke up eventually and started writing the TTPD, but most of the process was done after the actual breakup, when the reality hit her. Maybe she gave him the last chance to improve, but probably she was moving away emotionally, getting ready to cut him off at some point and go on tour. I wonder if there will be anything on this album confirming my theory, but I actually think that she knew about the forthcoming breakup a year ahead. Cause You're Losing Me was written from that state when you know that it's over.

[Squall]

Such a random thought but I still wonder how BoB (out all of people) managed to snatch a Taylor feature back in 2012  

[1989]

4 minutes ago, Squall said:

Such a random thought but I still wonder how BoB (out all of people) managed to snatch a Taylor feature back in 2012  

I think his team was attempting to recreate the success of Airplanes nnn  

[wastedpotential]

8 minutes ago, Squall said:

Such a random thought but I still wonder how BoB (out all of people) managed to snatch a Taylor feature back in 2012  

nnn I'm pretty sure it was a combo of him being a surprise guest on the Speak Now tour (which I saw live lmao) at the same time she began working with Max/Shellback, who would've introduced her to Dr. Luke through their production ecosystem. Oh, and what miss @1989 said about Airplanes, since late 2011 was also probably the peak of Taylor/Hayley's friendship too

 

Can we take a moment to thank the Good Lord that Both of Us is a forgotten flop with zero staying power, because it's genuinely one of the worst things she's been involved with (both artistically and ethically [though I guess we didn't really know about Luke then] ) 

Edited March 7 by wastedpotential

[Lille]

12 minutes ago, wastedpotential said:

nnn I'm pretty sure it was a combo of him being a surprise guest on the Speak Now tour (which I saw live lmao) at the same time she began working with Max/Shellback, who would've introduced her to Dr. Luke through their production ecosystem. Oh, and what miss @1989 said about Airplanes, since late 2011 was also probably the peak of Taylor/Hayley's friendship too

 

Can we take a moment to thank the Good Lord that Both of Us is a forgotten flop with zero staying power, because it's genuinely one of the worst things she's been involved with (both artistically and ethically [though I guess we didn't really know about Luke then] ) 

Ok but Lord's harmonies at the end of the song after the last chorus are godly and destroy careers tho, Whitney who Aretha where etc.

[Fama]

52 minutes ago, 1989 said:

Eh, I’ve always believed he had involvement in the melodies on those songs only, not the writing. Wasn’t it already known he could play piano? Folklore was made in the early part of quarantine (and Evermore started on not long after)—there were a lot of unknowns at the time and everyone was forced to stay home, it’s not far fetched to think he helped her a bit if she came to him with songs. I still don’t believe he had any involvement in the writing process, though. 
 

And yeah, I’ll always be suspicious of the Sweet Nothing credit. 

Always thought he only got the credit because he said "What a mind" 

[wastedpotential]

2 minutes ago, Fama said:

Always thought he only got the credit because he said "What a mind" 

Except apparently that's what Paul McCartney's wife would say about him, which we only found out because Taylor liked this ******* fan account tweet the same day Jack revealed YLM was written in December 2021