celeb news "Beyoncé's country album drowns out the Black music history it claims to celebrate"

[CoolNebraskaGuy]

6 minutes ago, Redstreak said:

This is personally my issue with the campaign, it's a Beyoncé album to sidestep critical analysis but when discussing gatekeeping it suddenly becomes an unquestioned country album again

I see what you mean, but the flaw is primarily in the argument of people implying that the album has to be one or the other- it's obviously both. 

[swissman]

BLACK ARTISTS FEATURED ON THE ALBUM

(bold for those the author mentioned in the article that claims Beyoncé drowned out Black music history)

1. Tanner Adell
2. Brittney Spencer
3. Tiera Kennedy
4. Reyna Roberts
5. Linda Martell (the only one not featured musically)
6. Shaboozey (twice)
7. Willie Jones

 

 

Edited April 4 by swissman

[Aaron]

Did she ever say she was reclaiming genres though? That narrative was kinda thrust upon her by Internet stans

[byzantium]

I think there are some valid ideas in this article to chew on and some less valid.  However, I don't think ATRL is really capable of handling the certain nuance it would take to discuss that.  

[ScorpiosGroove]

45 minutes ago, barbiegrande said:

They weren't riding horse and carriages in Houston in the 90s. 

and nicki hasn't been built like barbie a day in her life what is your point ? 

[Shelter]

1 minute ago, byzantium said:

I think there are some valid ideas in this article to chew on and some less valid.  However, I don't think ATRL is really capable of handling the certain nuance it would take to discuss that.  

Could you even discuss it without being blinded by hate and bias? I think not. 

[Virgos Groove]

3 minutes ago, swissman said:

It's hard to take this article seriously when it gets facts wrong, puts words in Beyoncé's mouth, disregards the Black musicians that are actually ON the album, quotes lyrics incorrectly or selectively to support her point (ie. implying being on a bus with a band is the hardship discussed in 16 CARRAIGES), accuses it of being a cash grab (made in 2019 and then not released, mind you) because it leans on country aesthetics despite admitting it is and aims to be far more than that... should we continue? ... admits an assumption (for no reason whatsoever, especially given what the "hit" was) that it was going to be some indie album not one with mainstream appeal...from...Beyoncé...who according to the author should have de-centered herself from her own work.

I think ultimately everyone is going to approach the album in different ways. I agree with you that the article gets a bit conspiratorial at times, but I can't blame anyone for being cynical in an age where capitalism co-opts everything. If some people feel like Bey, a pop artist, might be using country music as an aesthetic or as a motif... I mean, I don't agree, but there is a track record of pop artists doing it. I think the article is driven more by cynicism than personal animosity, which is what some people seem to think.

 

Quote

Now, she may have interesting points or thoughts to bring up, but a lot of this is based on pure personal assumption and misunderstanding of Beyoncé as an artist.

Misunderstanding or different interpretation? One of rules of art is to assume everything is intentional, right?

 

I'm not saying people have to agree with the author (hell, I don't agree with half of it). If someone want to interact with and challenge the author's perception, GOOD. That's how it should be. I just don't agree with dismissing it at first sight simply because it doesn't line up with Bey's intentions, because they are ultimately irrelevant.

[barbiegrande]

Just now, ScorpiosGroove said:

and nicki hasn't been built like barbie a day in her life what is your point ? 

? Weird and dumb comparison, but Nicki not being built like a Barbie is actually the point. A thick black woman labeling herself a term reserved for a skinny, white aesthetic.

[swissman]

5 minutes ago, Aaron said:

Did she ever say she was reclaiming genres though? That narrative was kinda thrust upon her by Internet stans

She never said that, but it still can be true that she's doing so, and she can be doing so even with 2 white features on the album. Her reclamation of the genre, especially after the immediate dismissal of her contributions to it in 2016 is not dependant on who or what is not the album, and entirely focused on if in fact she is presenting the genre to us in a way that makes it clear that there is a Blackness in country music that has largely been unexplored. She's achieved this in many ways, from the very featuring of Linda Martell, to the lyrics in the opening and closing songs, to the mix of more recognized Black genres like rock, soul and hip-hop, to the inclusion of predominantly Black artists, to the selection of Blackbird as one of the two covers, etc.

[Kassi]

8 minutes ago, Redstreak said:

I agree, I just think it would have a made stronger case to fully plant her flag down and say "my vision *is* country whether you like it or not", I think saying "this isn't country, this is Beyoncé,” kinda waffles that a bit

Did it not? Consider the format of the album is KNTRY radio station.
 

In the morning, you're introduced to light traditional singer/songwriter vibes.
 

Smoke Hour starts and it gets into more classic country vibes. 
 

Smoke Hour II then goes into more contemporary country vibes.

 

Linda Martell Show finally closes out with a more BEYONCÉ country vibes. 
 

I think the main thing that makes it a "Beyoncé album" rather than a "country album" is that this conceptual album captures her concept of what a country radio station in a black lineage might sound like. She sets it in direct contrast to the sterile, white-washed country programming now synonymous with "real country" that had her fighting headwinds because she threw in a little bit of Louisiana into Daddy Lessons.

[Marla Singer]

10 minutes ago, swissman said:

BLACK ARTISTS FEATURED ON THE ALBUM

(bold for those the author mentioned in the article that claims Beyoncé drowned out Black music history)

1. Tanner Adell
2. Brittney Spencer
3. Tiera Kennedy
4. Reyna Roberts
5. Linda Martell (the only one not featured musically)
6. Shaboozey (twice)
7. Willie Jones

 

 

And out of all of these, only Linda is even remotely mentioned in the article.

 

But the article does name and talk about all of the white artists that are featured (Dolly, Willie Nelson, Miley, Post).

 

The hypocrisy is unreal.

[Sheep]

56 minutes ago, Virgos Groove said:

Counterpoint: an author's intentions are irrelevant, it's the reader's (or, in this case, the listener's) perception that defines the meaning.

 

If this was a straight up review of the music itself I might agree but this article is almost entirely about the authenticity and intent behind a work which in-text very literally and with very little mincing of words, rebukes these concepts. If the article was actually a conscious rebuttal of these points instead completely ignoring them, it wouldn't come off as so delusional and hateful imo.

 

On it's face it looks really silly:

Beyonce - "this is a not a country album, it's a post-genre album that is 100% me"

Williams - "Beyonce's country album isn't country enough, black enough, or concerned enough with non-Beyonce people"

 

After you cross a certain line you're just looking for angles to criticize her/her album.

 

56 minutes ago, Virgos Groove said:

The idea that these three acts are an act of reclaiming or stepping out of boxes, or that CC is a straight-up country or that it's actually "not a country album, but a Beyoncé album"... these are all just interpretations. Just because some of them don't line up with Bey's intentions, it doesn't make those less valid (and them being valid doesn't mean one has to agree with them).

I agree 100% about Ren but you cannot listen to CC without directly engaging with her messaging about genre and the public's perceptions of them and of herself, those themes are all over the album and with very specific language. Personal interpretation falls apart when we start calling the Mona Lisa an abstract landscape painting and not what it is.

 

There could be a really interesting or even enlightening discussion centered around consciously trying to put CC in the black history or country music history box and strictly looking at it through that lens(the author clearly has more knowledge on those subjects than me or 99.999% of people)but there's no way to do that in good faith without at least acknowledging that you're bastardizing the work in some way by doing such. It's like attempting evaluate a piece of pop art by classical standards, you could use it as a platform to explore the history, purpose, and tropes of those two; or you could just call Roy Lichtenstein a terrible painter compared to Michelangelo because he doesn't show strict reverence for ancient virtues/ideals in every piece, this article does the latter.

Edited April 4 by Sheep

[Thor]

There are several points she has made but ofc the Hives (and others currently dickriding Beyonce) are going to call her names bcoz she's not bowing down to the Queen!1! 

[swissman]

19 minutes ago, Virgos Groove said:

I think ultimately everyone is going to approach the album in different ways. I agree with you that the article gets a bit conspiratorial at times, but I can't blame anyone for being cynical in an age where capitalism co-opts everything. If some people feel like Bey, a pop artist, might be using country music as an aesthetic or as a motif... I mean, I don't agree, but there is a track record of pop artists doing it. I think the article is driven more by cynicism than personal animosity, which is what some people seem to think.

 

Misunderstanding or different interpretation? One of rules of art is to assume everything is intentional, right?

 

I'm not saying people have to agree with the author (hell, I don't agree with half of it). If someone want to interact with and challenge the author's perception, GOOD. That's how it should be. I just don't agree with dismissing it at first sight simply because it doesn't line up with Bey's intentions, because they are ultimately irrelevant.

My point is that she can feel how she wants about the record itself, but if you are going to support your points with things that a simple fact-check will reveal are incorrect, or omit glaring factors that would otherwise negate your point, it's not easy to take the article seriously as a fan (or anyone) to then just say "well she has a point!" If the point is not accurately backed up, what worth does the point have, really? Or are we to do the job of an author and find ways to back it up for ourselves?

 

As for the question of "misunderstanding" or "different interpretation", from what was quoted I was talking about misunderstanding who Beyoncé is as an artist. I think it IS a very big misunderstanding to assume Beyoncé is the kind of artist who is going to de-center herself on her own album, as the author suggested. Why? Because there is absolutely no precedence for her doing that, let alone anything remotely close to that in the two solo-sung lead singles she released. Thus to claim that is what you thought she would do is very odd. "Misunderstanding" might even be too neutral a word, because what it really is an assumption that is not based on anything Beyoncé has done in her career. This is the lead singer of Destiny's Child, after all, not a choir director.

 

 

Edited April 4 by swissman

[swissman]

1 hour ago, barbiegrande said:

They weren't riding horse and carriages in Houston in the 90s. 

no but they did have metaphors back then.

[BnPac]

So she should not collaborate with white artists? She wanted to work with Post and Miley and she did. That's her choice and prerogative. She is not anti-white and she also said she hopes that the question of color will not be raised anymore when music is involved. 

 

And she's claiming Bey didn't work with any working-class black country artists when Willie Jones and Shaboozey are featured? When some of the songwriters are just that? Just poor lazy writing. 

 

The question they should ask themselves is why do they keep asking so much of Beyoncé? 

 

Well it's good that after so many years, she still causes so much discussion. 

[BnPac]

1 hour ago, barbiegrande said:

They weren't riding horse and carriages in Houston in the 90s. 

Some of you are actually serious with those takes. Serving Azealia, so metaphors in music shouldn't exist. Lol. 

[SoundsandSongs]

Some of y'all completely missing the point of CC. Beyonce already said it's not a country album, it's a Beyonce album. She clearly wanted this album to defy the confines people boxed her in as a black pop/rnb artist and show genre barriers are meant to be broken. Black artists were featured on several songs. She has the right to work with anyone she wants.

[Fleahive]

1 hour ago, By the Water said:

In Beyoncé's defense, it was her fans that pushed hard for the whole reclaiming the genre narrative, not her

People do a lot of speaking for her. A lot of assumptions and everyone runs with it. Her post on Instagram saying this ain't a country album it's a Beyoncé album blending genres was the best thing she could've done. 

[ScorpiosGroove]

27 minutes ago, barbiegrande said:

? Weird and dumb comparison, but Nicki not being built like a Barbie is actually the point. A thick black woman labeling herself a term reserved for a skinny, white aesthetic.

so nicki can rap about her being barbie, although she's far from looking like one, but beyoncé can't sing about riding horses ? 

[trainsskyscrapers]

1 hour ago, Josh said:

They were on a song longer than a minute but Miley gets a full verse?

Tanner Adell also appears in "Ameriican Requiem".

Reyna Roberts, Tiera Kennedy, and Brittney Spencer also appear in "Tyrant".

 

[If U Seek Amy]

People need to go outside

[SoundsandSongs]

17 minutes ago, BnPac said:

So she should not collaborate with white artists? She wanted to work with Post and Miley and she did. That's her choice and prerogative. She is not anti-white and she also said she hopes that the question of color will not be raised anymore when music is involved. 

 

And she's claiming Bey didn't work with any working-class black country artists when Willie Jones and Shaboozey are featured? When some of the songwriters are just that? Just poor lazy writing. 

 

The question they should ask themselves is why do they keep asking so much of Beyoncé? 

 

Well it's good that after so many years, she still causes so much discussion. 

Beyonce as an artist is someone who always tries defying what people expect her to be which is exactly what CC is. Trying to say Beyonce shouldnt work with white artists, she has to do this and that is literally putting her back into that "box" and taking away her own power in her artistry and career. This author makes a lot of very weird takes especially in regards to 16C, yes Beyonce was in hollywood from a young age but those are her experiences, her story. So hollywood artists aren't allowed to sing about their life, their upbringing on their own albums? Make it make sense.

[Josh]

4 minutes ago, trainsskyscrapers said:

Tanner Adell also appears in "Ameriican Requiem".

Reyna Roberts, Tiera Kennedy, and Brittney Spencer also appear in "Tyrant".

 

They were background vocals

[BnPac]

4 minutes ago, Josh said:

They were background vocals

And? What's your point exactly? Miley is not present in other songs, background or otherwise. 

Tanner has a full verse on Blackbird so does Miley on another song. Because Beyoncé has wanted it that way. 

Then you asked why Miley and not Faith or some other white country ladies. But I thought the problem with Miley was that she was white. Either the answer remains the same, because Beyoncé has wanted it so.