celeb news MNEK drags Beyoncé haters over songwriting credits

[swissman]

On 4/7/2024 at 2:19 AM, CécredSpaces said:

 

I have been a fan of Beyoncé since 2003 and have memorized almost every song's writing and production credits, so I know this is objectively untrue. She is credited as a writer in "Smash Into You." Here's the booklet:

 

 

As a fan of Jon McLaughlin, I also know he doesn't have one song in any of his albums or EPs where he hasn't written anything. I firmly believe Beyoncé's credit originally belonged to Jon. There must have been an agreement. The reason I say this is that Jon McLaughlin's publishing company is still in the ASCAP credits despite him not being listed as a writer anymore.

 

https://www.ascap.com/repertory#/ace/search/workID/496276312

According to Rolling Stone:

 

"Tricky Stewart and The-Dream originally wrote this gently lifting ballad for singer-songwriter Jon McLaughlin, who recorded it as "Smack Into You" but never released it. The co-writers passed it on to Beyonce, who made her own."

 

And in August of 2008 (before IASF was even announced) this was published to promo Jon's album OK GO:

 

"The new album is being mixed by Tom Lord-Alge and will feature the soon-to-be hit 'Smack In To You,' written and produced by the Grammy award-winning team of Tricky and The-Dream."

 

 

Edited April 8 by swissman

[Chris]

2 hours ago, swissman said:

Let's review them though, shall we?

Your point seems to be that all those songs/demos shared existed in their entirety before Beyoncé recorded them, thus her writing credits were not justified.

 

However:

6 Inch:

• The final song has different instrumentation than what was shared
• The final song has slightly different lyrics than what was shared
• Final has entirely new bridge not existing in demo

Hold Up

• What you shared does not represent a completely written song.
  • In fact what he actually says in this very video is: "A lot of times when you're working with someone you might not write the whole song that day ... the verses are empty but [what's played in the video] [has] my hook on it."
• In his own tweet he wrote: "lots of other stuff happens to that demo in terms of production/writing. Beyoncé 100% made it her own."

Daddy Lessons

• The quoted text is from Kevin Cossom who worked with Diana Gordon to co-write the track.
• Here is what Diana Gordon said about Beyoncé's involvement: "When I played it for her, I was like, 'This is one of my favorite songs.' She was like, 'This is my life.' I told her, 'You know what, take it, do what you want with it' She went and re-produced it, she changed some words, added the bridge, it's hers."

Sandcastles

• What you quoted leaves out another part of the same wikipedia article that states: "The final version of the song featured new lyrics at the end written by Beyoncé" This is confirmed in this interview where the original writer Vincent Berry II details why Beyoncé changed the end of the song.

Pray You Catch Me

• The video you shared is not a demo, but does seem to be an "original" version of the song as it has lyrics that are not included in the final song.
• The actual song has a much more extended outro with more vocals he doesn't do, extra instrumentation and a spoken line added at the very end.
• This was also co-written by James Blake. Does that mean James Blake also stole a writing credit from Kevin Garrett (singing in the video, who says "I" when talking about writing this)

Love Drought

• Though we don't know exactly what Beyoncé contributed, as we know Mike Dean is a co-producer and a co-writer. If we are to believe from the video you shared that she alone wrote the entirety of the song, then Mike Dean's writing credit would be unfairly earned too. Do you think that's the case? Or perhaps he and Beyoncé as the two producers wrote enough to earn their writing credits?

Formation

• What you shared is a piece of the story. It proves the chorus was written by Rae Sremmurd.
• This is what Mike WiLL Made-It has said about the writing:
  • "She wrote all her lyrics for the most part. The thing is, she's fair. It was a real collaborative effort between me, Pluss, Sremm, and her. We just split everything collectively, but she wrote both of her verses and she got inspired by what Jimmy said…From there, it was really more about her family. It was really more about her family, her heritage and where she comes from, so that's something that Swae Lee or anybody really couldn't write the way she wrote it, because she probably really totes hot sauce in her bag."
  • In this same interview he continues talking about all the things she added to the song, including horns, etc.

 

 

 

In conclusion, nothing you shared proves what you said it proves.

 

 

Oopsie.

[dirrtydiana]

I have to agree. I'm so tired of seeing users here throwing around "I like this more because it's self written.” Like GORL, sometimes people should use writing camps

[swissman]

Interesting how no one ever has anything to say when I come back with facts.

[Glamthony]

Beyonce is the BIGGEST pop star in the world, only behind TS, everyone wants to work with her and be a part of her legacy, her lyrics might be simple, but the delivery and the uniqueness attached to her albums it's a brand that equals talent and acclaim, since she released 4 in 2011, she's been consistent on the quality level of her music, you're just mad at her, cause you're fave would never have released such a masterpiece like BEYONCÉ, 4, Lemonade or Ren. 

[Navyboy20]

On 4/3/2024 at 2:36 PM, feelslikeadream said:

It's kind of a strawman argument though; the issue with Beyonce and credits is not the number of writers, but the shady way she takes writing credits herself despite minimal/zero contributions.

 

THE having 6 writers is not a problem.

 

Bey taking royalties away from Jon McLaughlin for Crash Into You is a problem. And if she's doing the same for the other 5 writers on THE, that's also an issue.

 

So this tweet and reply are ultimately just misdirection away from the actual issue.

You mean the way Jolene took songwriting credits from Beyonce on Jolene???

[bruninho]

On 4/3/2024 at 6:34 PM, Josh said:

Why doesn't Beyonce write a song by herself? Why does she need more than one writer?

Why does she have to? What's your point?
It's not just about lyrics...it's actually a very ignorant vision on music.
You can write something alone that's going to be voice and guitar or a simple clean pop production, and you can have a body of work full of references, layers, complex production, complex vocals, and have a whole team to make it work.

Let me know when someone writes and produces a Renaissance or a Cowboy Carter by themselves, and then we can talk about it.

(and I'm nobody's stan or hater...just facts about ignorance when it comes to songwriting)

Edited April 10 by bruninho

[Josh]

11 minutes ago, bruninho said:

Why does she have to? What's your point?
It's not just about lyrics...it's actually a very ignorant vision on music.
You can write something alone that's going to be voice and guitar or a simple clean pop production, and you can have a body of work full of references, layers, complex production, complex vocals, and have a whole team to make it work.

Let me know when someone writes and produces a Renaissance or a Cowboy Carter by themselves, and then we can talk about it.

(and I'm nobody's stan or hater...just facts about ignorance when it comes to songwriting)

because she claims shes a songwriter thats why

[bruninho]

17 minutes ago, Josh said:

because she claims shes a songwriter thats why

Where does she claim "I write everything by myself"? Do you have a video of her saying this? Or an interview?
And since when a songwriter can only claim to be a songwriter if they write alone?
And how do you know the exact amount of lyrics she contributed to in each song? Just because of the "Smash Into You" situation, you count her out as a songwriter? It doesn't even make sense.

If you do that, you're also saying that the amazing songwriters involved are not songwriters, because they didn't do it by themselves.
LIke I said, it's a very ignorant vision on music. And it seems like there's a bit/lot of blind favoritism in your opinions. 

[swissman]

56 minutes ago, Josh said:

because she claims shes a songwriter thats why

She is though.

 

Again, by the very standards that remove Beyoncé's songwriting contributions because she may have only added new lines after an original version was created, we must then credit her as the songwriter of the eleven-week #1 hit Independent Women, Billboard's second-biggest girl-group song OF ALL TIME, because that's what happened in that case. She wrote the song, some other songwriters added some stuff at the end.

 

So which is it? It can't go both ways. You can't say adding stuff doesn't count as songwriting, AND that she's never written a song herself.

[Lovett]

2 hours ago, Josh said:

because she claims shes a songwriter thats why

And you disputing that only shows your ignorance of what a songwriter is.