base talk Is Beyoncé the ultimate Early 2000s ender?

[Distantconstellation]

15 hours ago, Kodak Energy said:

I don’t think Beyonce ended any of the main 00s artists careers.
 

They just don’t have the drive and creativity that she does, so she remains relevant decades later whilst they faded. 
 

I also don’t see her ever outselling Eminem, she dropped in 2022 and he didn’t but his catalog still moved more units.

The drive part i agree with. Creativity though not so much, a lot of the 2000s girls just sleep on their ideas and are simply put it lazy. 

[Yuanyu]

37 minutes ago, chaeyonce said:

They can keep holding onto those old record sales, Beyoncé is the only one still relevant now and will keep being so for years to come.

When you write things like that, do we bother to know what you are talking about?

 

Spotify streams 

Eminem 
Mtbmb 3.7b
Kamikaze 3.2b
Revival 1.9b

 

Beyoncé

Renaissance 2.7b
The Lion King: The Gift 858m
Everything Is Love 603m

 

[MingYouToo]

15 hours ago, Noodles said:

People will never be convinced of her success until she crosses to the veteran chapter of her career. We've been having this conversation every few years, for more than a decade already. It's nothing new 

her and Taylor fall under that 'too relevant to actually appreciate their legacy' phase of their career. They're just as current as the SZAs, the Duas and Olivias to actually have the public appreciate their multidecade career. 

 

She could have another smash in 2030 and people will still see her as just another flavor of the month popgirl when she came out before 9/11

[swissman]

9 hours ago, Yuanyu said:

Then it should be easy to use examples of white rappers with the same success as Eminem no?
 

are you saying that just because there aren't a lot of just-as-popular white rappers in the hip-hop world that Eminem has never benefited from white privilege?

are you saying that him selling about 2x more than the next highest selling rapper is based on his talent alone, and not the fact that in addition to his talent he has his white privilege?

[swissman]

10 hours ago, Kodak Energy said:

This isn’t true, there’s been 0 albums that have spent 1000 weeks on the charts.

 

Eminem has spent the 4th most weeks with 2,322 and Beyoncé has spent the 78th with 868 weeks. (but she’s rising rapidly)
 

 

But Beyoncé is better and more acclaimed and didn’t need to rap about punching/ assaulting artists like Britney/Christina/Lana/ Rihanna/ Pamela/Bette Midler/Nick Cannon/ his wife/his mother and constantly rap about murdering and abusing gay people and using slurs like the ***. 
 

She will be more positively remembered in a few decades time. 
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Longest charting acts on the BB200

1. The Beatles — 3,266 weeks
2. Drake — 2,936 weeks
3. Taylor Swift — 2,718 weeks
4. Eminem — 2,322 weeks 
5. Michael Jackson — 2,109 weeks
6. Elton John — 2,063 weeks
7. The Rolling Stones — 2,050 weeks  
8. Elvis Presley — 2,002 weeks 
9. Barbra Streisand — 1,885 weeks  
10. Pink Floyd — 1,676 weeks 
11. George Strait — 1,654 weeks 
12. Journey — 1,587 weeks 
13. Metallica — 1,562 weeks
14. Fleetwood Mac — 1,549 weeks
15. The Beach Boys — 1,526 weeks  
16. Frank Sinatra — 1,469 weeks 
17. Tim McGraw — 1,462 weeks
18. Bob Seger — 1,424 weeks
19. Eagles — 1,402 weeks
20. Led Zeppelin — 1,359 weeks
21. Herb Alpert — 1,359 weeks 
22. Garth Brooks — 1,355 weeks  
23. Alan Jackson — 1,339 weeks  
24. Neil Diamond — 1,326 weeks  
25. Queen — 1,324 weeks
26. Willie Nelson — 1,323 weeks 
27. The Temptations — 1,305 weeks 
28. Rod Stewart — 1,289 weeks
29. U2 — 1,272 weeks  
30. AC/DC — 1,257 weeks
31. Guns N' Roses — 1,240 weeks
32. Creedence Clearwater Revival — 1,231 weeks
33. The Weeknd — 1,218 weeks
34. Kanye West — 1,205 weeks
35. Billy Joel — 1,187 weeks
36. Kendrick Lamar — 1,182 weeks
37. Aerosmith — 1,174 weeks
38. Prince — 1,170 weeks
39. Bob Dylan — 1,169 weeks 
40. Eric Clapton — 1,156 weeks 
41. Chicago — 1,153 weeks
42. Johnny Cash — 1,149 weeks 
43. Bruno Mars — 1,147 weeks
44. Kenny Rogers — 1,145 weeks  
45. Tom Petty — 1,136 weeks
46. Blake Shelton — 1,133 weeks 
47. Ed Sheeran — 1,124 weeks
48. Madonna — 1,119 weeks 
49. Bob Marley — 1,115 weeks
50. Adele — 1,115 weeks
51. Bon Jovi — 1,105 weeks
52. Zac Brown Band — 1,083 weeks 
53. Kenny Chesney — 1,066 weeks 
54. 2Pac — 1,050 weeks
55. Bruce Springsteen — 1,007 weeks
56. Johnny Mathis — 1,001 weeks
57. Aretha Franklin — 995 weeks
58. Imagine Dragons — 994 weeks
59. Nirvana — 988 weeks
60. Toby Keith — 979 weeks 
61. Paul McCartney — 979 weeks  
62 Andy Williams — 979 weeks  
63. Post Malone — 974 weeks 
64. Stevie Wonder — 963 weeks  
65. Mariah Carey — 952 weeks  
66. Whitney Houston — 947 weeks
67. Future — 929 weeks
68. Santana — 929 weeks
69. Diana Ross — 917 weeks 
70. Bee Gees — 912 weeks 
71. Neil Young — 910 weeks 
72. The Supremes — 901 weeks 
73. J. Cole — 900 weeks 
74. Hall & Oates — 900 weeks
75. Rihanna — 881 weeks
76. Lynyrd Skynyrd — 875 weeks 
77. Celine Dion — 870 weeks
78. Beyoncè — 868 weeks

 

 

 

Sorry, you are right. I made a mistake in how I described that stat. It wasn't for albums it was for total weeks the artist has spend on the Billboard 200.

 

My point still stands, however, that men historically have had an immensely easier time finding commercial success with far less riding against them, far less expectations to look, sound or act a certain way, etc. etc. etc.

 

And as your stats point out, there are 0 Black women and 0 women of colour who have charted over 1,000 weeks on the Billboard 200. There have been 4 white women who've done it. There have been 11 men of colour who've done it. There have 42 white men who've done it.
 

 

 

Edited February 24 by swissman

[AvadaKedavra]

Yes! She's winning and the juggernaut of the 2000s cause she's really invested in her art. She's overly ambitious and always challengin herself artistic wise.  With tours. With visuals. Dancing.  Her concepts are so well-executed.
Beyonce and Taylor are the hardest workers in the industry and it pays so well.
I still think Beyonce success is far more impressive than all the other american popstars cause "White America" hates her  deeply and wants her to go down in flames. 
She's is perpetually morphing her sound and even with the alienation she's still a prominent name in the industry. 
If you want me to be honest i never thought Beyonce would have all this longevity. After 4 i thought she woulf be a flop and just fade.........

Then after Beyonce we have Shakira.   Shakira has the disavantage of being from the Third World and always underlooked by Americans-Europeans
Yet she has managed to keep her career afloat for decades and still able to chart with spanish and english singles (go to wikipedia).
Sadly Shakira is not as ambitious as bee and she's in a lazy comfort zone but another strong impressive name from the 2000s.


We also have britney who would be bigger today without all the sufferin she went through. In a world where the breakdown didnt happen. Britney would be successful still

We have also Pink but the problem with Pink is the lack of reinvention. Thats honestly destroying her chances of surviving this decade. Her sales and frenzy is goin down






 

Edited February 24 by AvadaKedavra

[Kodak Energy]

2 hours ago, swissman said:

Sorry, you are right. I made a mistake in how I described that stat. It wasn't for albums it was for total weeks the artist has spend on the Billboard 200.

 

My point still stands, however, that men historically have had an immensely easier time finding commercial success with far less riding against them, far less expectations to look, sound or act a certain way, etc. etc. etc.

 

And as your stats point out, there are 0 Black women and 0 women of colour who have charted over 1,000 weeks on the Billboard 200. There have been 4 white women who've done it. There have been 11 men of colour who've done it. There have 42 white men who've done it.
 

 

 

Yes what Beyoncé has achieved has been unprecedented.
 

I do think she’s had the most impressive career out of all the acts that debuted alongside her. Whilst I think it’s just as easy for women to smash as men in 2023 the early 00s especially was rife with misogynoir and she powered through. 
 

She broke down many barriers for black women in terms of longevity and for all women actually in terms of reinvention. I think my fave Taylor always gives her the flowers she deserves for that. 

[shakeyourbombom]

Shakira and Eminem are ultimate longevity king and queen. They both outlasted Beyonce.

 

Britney needs to release her music to prove her relevancy but we can see she’s still very in public’s focus.

 

So Beyonce is not the ultimate.

[Blackout2006]

in the US, prob

[Lovett]

9 hours ago, shakeyourbombom said:

Shakira and Eminem are ultimate longevity king and queen. They both outlasted Beyonce.

What a wild thing to say, when Beyoncé is currently hitting #1 across the world right now.

[shakeyourbombom]

2 hours ago, Lovett said:

What a wild thing to say, when Beyoncé is currently hitting #1 across the world right now.

Shakira started in 1995. Beyonce started in 2003.

Shakira also had two no.1s worldwide last year and those two giant songs did way more streams.

[Lovett]

Just now, shakeyourbombom said:

Shakira started in 1995. Beyonce started in 2003.

Shakira also had two no.1s worldwide last year and those two giant songs did way more streams.

Beyoncé debuted in 1997 and currently has a giant worldwide smash. Shakira can't have "outlasted" Beyoncé if she's currently smashing, that would mean Beyoncé has stopped achieving success for an extended period of time. Try again.

[shakeyourbombom]

1 minute ago, Lovett said:

Beyoncé debuted in 1997 and currently has a giant worldwide smash. Shakira can't have "outlasted" Beyoncé if she's currently smashing, that would mean Beyoncé has stopped achieving success for an extended period of time. Try again.

Didn’t she start her solo career in 2003?

Even if you count Destiny’s Child (1997), Shakira still started earlier (1995). 
 

Shakira: 2023-1995 = 28 (she will smash again this year)

Beyonce: 2024 - 1997 = 27

 

And let me remind you again, Shakira was with a song with 14.4M streams debut. And she kept that song floating over 10M for days. 
One month later, another song peaked at no.1 with 9M streams.

 

Beyonce did 6M.

[PrettyHurts]

5 minutes ago, shakeyourbombom said:

Shakira started in 1995. Beyonce started in 2003.

Shakira also had two no.1s worldwide last year and those two giant songs did way more streams.

Beyoncé didn’t just appear out of thin air in 2003  she was already a household name for being the lead (and sometimes only) singer of one the biggest girl groups of all time. She had smash songs, albums, starred in movies, won grammys etc etc etc all before 2003 

[Lovett]

Just now, shakeyourbombom said:

Didn’t she start her solo career in 2003?

Even if you count Destiny’s Child (1997), Shakira still started earlier (1995). 
 

Shakira: 2023-1995 = 28 (she will smash again this year)

Beyonce: 2024 - 1997 = 27

 

And let me remind you again, Shakira was with a song with 14.4M streams debut. And she kept that song floating over 10M for days. 
One month later, another song peaked at no.1 with 9M streams.

 

Beyonce did 6M.

No, she didn't start her solo career in 2003. She was working as a solo artist in the 90s, alongside her work in Destiny's Child. She debuted in 1997. I'm uninterested in your comparison between the songs, because it's irrelevant.

 

She cannot have outlasted a woman who currently has the #1 song in the world. That's not how 'outlasting' someone works.  Nice try.

[shakeyourbombom]

1 minute ago, Lovett said:

No, she didn't start her solo career in 2003. She was working as a solo artist in the 90s, alongside her work in Destiny's Child. She debuted in 1997. I'm uninterested in your comparison between the songs, because it's irrelevant.

 

She cannot have outlasted a woman who currently has the #1 song in the world. That's not how 'outlasting' someone works.  Nice try.

Not you defining how outlasting works. Shakira has a longer relevant career span. And their no.1s are in total different levels

[Lovett]

1 minute ago, shakeyourbombom said:

Not you defining how outlasting works. Shakira has a longer relevant career span. And their no.1s are in total different levels

I'm not defining anything, by the literal definition; to 'outlast' someone/something is to last longer than them. If both of them are achieving success now, then how exactly has either outlasted the other? 

[shakeyourbombom]

1 minute ago, Lovett said:

I'm not defining anything, by the literal definition; to 'outlast' someone/something is to last longer than them. If both of them are achieving success now, then how exactly has either outlasted the other? 

Do your maths

2023 - 1995 = ? 

2024 - 1997 = ?

[Lovett]

Just now, shakeyourbombom said:

Do your maths

2023 - 1995 = ? 

2024 - 1997 = ?

Sweet Jesus.

 

[Storm653]

I'm not a big fan of his music but you have to hand it to Eminem. 

 

He's a total recluse who stopped catering to pop culture entirely since Revival in 2017 yet he still has more than 70+ million monthly listeners, has very strong recurrent streams, a Greatest Hits album that's Diamond and still charting, a blockbuster movie that basically impacted the world, and just outsold Led Zeppelin in worldwide album sales. 

 

Bey's doing great and I think she's musically better, more multi-talented, and has a better image than Em. But she never had a peak as huge as 99-03 era Eminem or even 09-13 era Eminem on a global scale. Eminem during those days was a global Juggernaut who was getting played and attention on the same level as the biggest MPG's. Eminem was the AOTD in the 2000's and was the 3rd best selling artist of any genre in the 2010's. And MMTBS and Renaissance have comparable levels of success despite the former being a surprise album with dense lyrics and very little pop/crossover appeal. 

 

I do think Beyonce will end up being bigger in the end at the rate she's going but, for now, Beyonce isn't necessarily bigger than Eminem today. He's just on a hiatus atm. How his next album does will determine that. But he's a 50+ rapper who stopped chasing pop hits so there's a chance that it won't smash. 

Edited February 25 by Storm653

[Guilherme Make Love]

On 2/24/2024 at 6:42 AM, chaklux said:

Eminem is a legend of course and has a big catalogue, the second biggest act of this century commercially after Taylor , so his streaming stats make sense.

But the difference is the longevity , Eminem is a legacy act in 2024 while Bey is still very much relevant and competing with the current MPGs. This thread is about longevity and bey wins in that department!

How Eminem is a legacy act? His last album had just one single, but the single is one of the biggest rap songs of the decade so far. 
 

And the album sold 6M units without him leave his house, which is more than pretty much everyone can sell, especially older artists. 
 

I won’t enter in this whole Beyonce x Eminem because i think it doesn’t matter, they’re both the legends of the 00’s along with Coldplay. 
 

But this idea that the insane Eminem stats came from his older catalogue alone is nonsense, everytime he drops an album it’s huge even in this decade. Maybe it doesn’t feel huge because he doesn’t promote or touring, but it is. 
 

 

[dawnettakins]

Yes, truly ended those FADS in comparison.