base talk Is Beyoncé the ultimate Early 2000s ender?

[swissman]

47 minutes ago, Yuanyu said:

You say that as if mtbmb hasn't been on BB200 for over 100 weeks.

But I love that comparison of Eminem in his 50's vs bey in his 40's, especially considering Eminem's sales with Beyoncé's age. 

Not you bringing his age into it, as if Eminem, a white rapper who happens to be the best selling rapper of all time by about double, doesn't have an inherent privilege himself.

[swissman]

11 minutes ago, Serebro1987 said:

Beyoncé NEVER made an album or a song that was controversial and overwhelmed society with touchy topics like "Erotica", "American Life" did for Madonna, or "They Don't Care About Us", "Black Or White", "Earth Song", "Heal The World" did MJ, she NEVER had a hit song that talked about rebellion or pushed the enveloppe about sexuality, global warming, war, politics, interracial relationships, racism, etc...

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Serebro1987 said:

 

They were boycotted like crazy when both of them did, were destroyed by the press at the time for it, and still survived musically despite all the scrutiny.

All of those made Madonna and MJ LEGENDARY for real, especially in times where social medias didn't even exist. Beyoncé is legendary on her own, but she's FAR from Madonna/MJ, way TOO FAR !

 

 

 

[bad guy]

1 hour ago, Yuanyu said:

Ah well, now we are going to use certifications that are mostly not automatic. 
Since you have bothered to paste Wikipedia info it would not have cost you much to check that mtbmb is 2xplatinum eligible in US and Canada, and by the way you could have included it sales in china that some time ago were already around 500k.

Renaissance is also 2x platinum eligible and in the Wikipedia certifications I posted China's already included in there. Pretty sure if Eminem's official certifications were more than Beyoncé you wouldn't be making the argument that certifications don't matter but if you wanna move the goalpost go ahead. Can't dispute real figures but ok 

 

56 minutes ago, Yuanyu said:

You say that as if mtbmb hasn't been on BB200 for over 100 weeks.

But I love that comparison of Eminem in his 50's vs bey in his 40's, especially considering Eminem's sales with Beyoncé's age. 

The only Eminem album charting is his GH album. Renaissance is at 81 weeks and will have no issue going over 100 weeks. Eminem's longevity is impressive no doubt but if you really wanna compare the two there's many men in the music industry who've been able to have success in their 50s. How many women have been able to put out #1 hits and have people pay attention to their albums in their 40s? 

 

 

[shyboi]

Idk about that but she's def up there

[Serebro1987]

14 minutes ago, swissman said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, y'all so desperate, it shows that y'all weren't really alive during Madonna/MJ heydays.

 

If that's all she got then what about Britney Spears back in 2001, or Gaga when "Alejandro" MV came up and Vatican wanted the broadcasting of the video banned.

 

Where "Formation" is an equivalent of "American Life", "Erotica", "Black Or White", "They Don't Care About Us", etc... like come on !

 

Bey is a great artist "Get Me Bodied", "Upgrade U", "Me Myself & I", "Baby Boy", "Diva", "Check On It" are personal classics of mine, but she's NOWHERE near where Madonna/MJ were musically. 

Both of them pushed the enveloppe in the music industry, Bey so far, DID NOT, and that's ok !

[Thor]

25 minutes ago, Blue Rose said:

are those facts in the room with us right now?

Yes and those are Eminem’s sales and streams being higher than Beyonce’s

[swissman]

1 minute ago, bad guy said:

Renaissance is also 2x platinum eligible and in the Wikipedia certifications I posted China's already included in there. Pretty sure if Eminem's official certifications were more than Beyoncé you wouldn't be making the argument that certifications don't matter but if you wanna move the goalpost go ahead. Can't dispute real figures but ok 

 

The only Eminem album charting is his GH album. Renaissance is at 81 weeks and will have no issue going over 100 weeks. Eminem's longevity is impressive no doubt but if you really wanna compare the two there's many men in the music industry who've been able to have success in their 50s. How many women have been able to put out #1 hits and have people pay attention to their albums in their 40s? 

 

 

When it comes to sales, at least in America, men have always had an easier time.

There was a thread a few years ago that showed every album that spent more than 1,000 weeks on the Billboard 200 and it was made up of about 94% men, and predominantly white men, and no women of colour.

[Lovett]

44 minutes ago, Thor said:

I’m not a Bey hater

[swissman]

23 minutes ago, Serebro1987 said:

 

Again, y'all so desperate, it shows that y'all weren't really alive during Madonna/MJ heydays.

 

If that's all she got then what about Britney Spears back in 2001, or Gaga when "Alejandro" MV came up and Vatican wanted the broadcasting of the video banned.

 

Where "Formation" is an equivalent of "American Life", "Erotica", "Black Or White", "They Don't Care About Us", etc... like come on !

 

Bey is a great artist "Get Me Bodied", "Upgrade U", "Me Myself & I", "Baby Boy", "Diva", "Check On It" are personal classics of mine, but she's NOWHERE near where Madonna/MJ were musically. 

Both of them pushed the enveloppe in the music industry, Bey so far, DID NOT, and that's ok !

Did you or did you not not claim "Beyoncé NEVER made an album or a song that was controversial ... that talked about rebellion or pushed the enveloppe about ... racism"?

Now that I've showed you a factual example of that very thing, it no longer counts because you say so?

 

Beyoncé literally marched an army of Black women in Black panthers regalia from an X up to the world's biggest stage singing an anthem of Black feminism, pride and liberation, and because of that was threatened with a boycott, called racist, and much, much worse at a time when pop was not very political and American politics was at its most divisive in decades...and two years later Childish Gambino's This is America's viral song/video about police brutality went #1 ... but sure, she never did anything controversial nor pushed an envelope nor set a path that others might follow.

 

 

Edited February 23 by swissman

[thirdward]

not ender but someone who survived changes in the industry 

she might be one of the few female artists but yeah Eminem Coldplay even Kanye are still here 

[Nippy'sReceipts]

Beyoncé reminds me of Madonna in that she always put out music every 2-3 years consistently for her first three decades in music  .

 

She didn’t take big breaks like Janet, Xtina, Justin, Rihanna, Britney, Gaga. That definitely helps . It’s much harder when you take a long hiatus 

[skeeyee]

Not sure what this means nor did I read anything, but yes. 

[krustysalt]

Yes. She is the only woman still standing, doing stadiums and can still reach #1

[Jay07]

11 hours ago, KatyPrismSpirit said:

Beyonce and Taylor Swift are the current Michael Jackson / Madonna of our generation

The sneak 

[toxicgenie]

 

She had nothing to do with the decline of other artists. She lasted the longest because she was more dedicated, career driven and had more resources.

[Kodak Energy]

9 hours ago, swissman said:

When it comes to sales, at least in America, men have always had an easier time.

There was a thread a few years ago that showed every album that spent more than 1,000 weeks on the Billboard 200 and it was made up of about 94% men, and predominantly white men, and no women of colour.

This isn’t true, there’s been 0 albums that have spent 1000 weeks on the charts.

 

Eminem has spent the 4th most weeks with 2,322 and Beyoncé has spent the 78th with 868 weeks. (but she’s rising rapidly)
 

 

But Beyoncé is better and more acclaimed and didn’t need to rap about punching/ assaulting artists like Britney/Christina/Lana/ Rihanna/ Pamela/Bette Midler/Nick Cannon/ his wife/his mother and constantly rap about murdering and abusing gay people and using slurs like the ***. 
 

She will be more positively remembered in a few decades time. 
 

Spoiler

Longest charting acts on the BB200

1. The Beatles — 3,266 weeks
2. Drake — 2,936 weeks
3. Taylor Swift — 2,718 weeks
4. Eminem — 2,322 weeks 
5. Michael Jackson — 2,109 weeks
6. Elton John — 2,063 weeks
7. The Rolling Stones — 2,050 weeks  
8. Elvis Presley — 2,002 weeks 
9. Barbra Streisand — 1,885 weeks  
10. Pink Floyd — 1,676 weeks 
11. George Strait — 1,654 weeks 
12. Journey — 1,587 weeks 
13. Metallica — 1,562 weeks
14. Fleetwood Mac — 1,549 weeks
15. The Beach Boys — 1,526 weeks  
16. Frank Sinatra — 1,469 weeks 
17. Tim McGraw — 1,462 weeks
18. Bob Seger — 1,424 weeks
19. Eagles — 1,402 weeks
20. Led Zeppelin — 1,359 weeks
21. Herb Alpert — 1,359 weeks 
22. Garth Brooks — 1,355 weeks  
23. Alan Jackson — 1,339 weeks  
24. Neil Diamond — 1,326 weeks  
25. Queen — 1,324 weeks
26. Willie Nelson — 1,323 weeks 
27. The Temptations — 1,305 weeks 
28. Rod Stewart — 1,289 weeks
29. U2 — 1,272 weeks  
30. AC/DC — 1,257 weeks
31. Guns N' Roses — 1,240 weeks
32. Creedence Clearwater Revival — 1,231 weeks
33. The Weeknd — 1,218 weeks
34. Kanye West — 1,205 weeks
35. Billy Joel — 1,187 weeks
36. Kendrick Lamar — 1,182 weeks
37. Aerosmith — 1,174 weeks
38. Prince — 1,170 weeks
39. Bob Dylan — 1,169 weeks 
40. Eric Clapton — 1,156 weeks 
41. Chicago — 1,153 weeks
42. Johnny Cash — 1,149 weeks 
43. Bruno Mars — 1,147 weeks
44. Kenny Rogers — 1,145 weeks  
45. Tom Petty — 1,136 weeks
46. Blake Shelton — 1,133 weeks 
47. Ed Sheeran — 1,124 weeks
48. Madonna — 1,119 weeks 
49. Bob Marley — 1,115 weeks
50. Adele — 1,115 weeks
51. Bon Jovi — 1,105 weeks
52. Zac Brown Band — 1,083 weeks 
53. Kenny Chesney — 1,066 weeks 
54. 2Pac — 1,050 weeks
55. Bruce Springsteen — 1,007 weeks
56. Johnny Mathis — 1,001 weeks
57. Aretha Franklin — 995 weeks
58. Imagine Dragons — 994 weeks
59. Nirvana — 988 weeks
60. Toby Keith — 979 weeks 
61. Paul McCartney — 979 weeks  
62 Andy Williams — 979 weeks  
63. Post Malone — 974 weeks 
64. Stevie Wonder — 963 weeks  
65. Mariah Carey — 952 weeks  
66. Whitney Houston — 947 weeks
67. Future — 929 weeks
68. Santana — 929 weeks
69. Diana Ross — 917 weeks 
70. Bee Gees — 912 weeks 
71. Neil Young — 910 weeks 
72. The Supremes — 901 weeks 
73. J. Cole — 900 weeks 
74. Hall & Oates — 900 weeks
75. Rihanna — 881 weeks
76. Lynyrd Skynyrd — 875 weeks 
77. Celine Dion — 870 weeks
78. Beyoncè — 868 weeks

 

 

 

[Yuanyu]

2 minutes ago, Kodak Energy said:

This isn’t true, there’s been 0 albums that have spent 1000 weeks on the charts.

 

Eminem has spent the 4th most weeks with 2,322 and Beyoncé has spent the 78th with 868 weeks. (but she’s rising rapidly)
 

 

But Beyoncé is better and more acclaimed and didn’t need to rap about punching/ assaulting artists like Britney/Christina/Lana/ Rihanna/ Pamela/Bette Midler/Nick Cannon/ his wife/his mother and constantly rap about murdering and abusing gay people and using slurs like the ***. 
 

She will be more positively remembered in a few decades time. 
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Longest charting acts on the BB200

1. The Beatles — 3,266 weeks
2. Drake — 2,936 weeks
3. Taylor Swift — 2,718 weeks
4. Eminem — 2,322 weeks 
5. Michael Jackson — 2,109 weeks
6. Elton John — 2,063 weeks
7. The Rolling Stones — 2,050 weeks  
8. Elvis Presley — 2,002 weeks 
9. Barbra Streisand — 1,885 weeks  
10. Pink Floyd — 1,676 weeks 
11. George Strait — 1,654 weeks 
12. Journey — 1,587 weeks 
13. Metallica — 1,562 weeks
14. Fleetwood Mac — 1,549 weeks
15. The Beach Boys — 1,526 weeks  
16. Frank Sinatra — 1,469 weeks 
17. Tim McGraw — 1,462 weeks
18. Bob Seger — 1,424 weeks
19. Eagles — 1,402 weeks
20. Led Zeppelin — 1,359 weeks
21. Herb Alpert — 1,359 weeks 
22. Garth Brooks — 1,355 weeks  
23. Alan Jackson — 1,339 weeks  
24. Neil Diamond — 1,326 weeks  
25. Queen — 1,324 weeks
26. Willie Nelson — 1,323 weeks 
27. The Temptations — 1,305 weeks 
28. Rod Stewart — 1,289 weeks
29. U2 — 1,272 weeks  
30. AC/DC — 1,257 weeks
31. Guns N' Roses — 1,240 weeks
32. Creedence Clearwater Revival — 1,231 weeks
33. The Weeknd — 1,218 weeks
34. Kanye West — 1,205 weeks
35. Billy Joel — 1,187 weeks
36. Kendrick Lamar — 1,182 weeks
37. Aerosmith — 1,174 weeks
38. Prince — 1,170 weeks
39. Bob Dylan — 1,169 weeks 
40. Eric Clapton — 1,156 weeks 
41. Chicago — 1,153 weeks
42. Johnny Cash — 1,149 weeks 
43. Bruno Mars — 1,147 weeks
44. Kenny Rogers — 1,145 weeks  
45. Tom Petty — 1,136 weeks
46. Blake Shelton — 1,133 weeks 
47. Ed Sheeran — 1,124 weeks
48. Madonna — 1,119 weeks 
49. Bob Marley — 1,115 weeks
50. Adele — 1,115 weeks
51. Bon Jovi — 1,105 weeks
52. Zac Brown Band — 1,083 weeks 
53. Kenny Chesney — 1,066 weeks 
54. 2Pac — 1,050 weeks
55. Bruce Springsteen — 1,007 weeks
56. Johnny Mathis — 1,001 weeks
57. Aretha Franklin — 995 weeks
58. Imagine Dragons — 994 weeks
59. Nirvana — 988 weeks
60. Toby Keith — 979 weeks 
61. Paul McCartney — 979 weeks  
62 Andy Williams — 979 weeks  
63. Post Malone — 974 weeks 
64. Stevie Wonder — 963 weeks  
65. Mariah Carey — 952 weeks  
66. Whitney Houston — 947 weeks
67. Future — 929 weeks
68. Santana — 929 weeks
69. Diana Ross — 917 weeks 
70. Bee Gees — 912 weeks 
71. Neil Young — 910 weeks 
72. The Supremes — 901 weeks 
73. J. Cole — 900 weeks 
74. Hall & Oates — 900 weeks
75. Rihanna — 881 weeks
76. Lynyrd Skynyrd — 875 weeks 
77. Celine Dion — 870 weeks
78. Beyoncè — 868 weeks

 

 

 

The fact that Eminem doesn't need to leave his house to be relevant is proof of what you are saying is an absurdity, he is an anomaly of the music industry and it's ok to say that. Beyoncé's relevance has nothing to do with Eminem 

[Yuanyu]

10 hours ago, swissman said:

Not you bringing his age into it, as if Eminem, a white rapper who happens to be the best selling rapper of all time by about double, doesn't have an inherent privilege himself.

Then it should be easy to use examples of white rappers with the same success as Eminem no?
 

[Yakult]

Odd question......Beyoncé has outlasted most of her peers, yes. That's part of her being a music industry anomaly though, not because she ended their careers.

 

The Eminem vs Beyoncé thing is so odd. Yes, Eminem has massive catalogue streams. (his Greatest Hits is never not charting in the UK albums chart - which is basically a landfill of compilations at this point) - but he hasn't had the cultural relevance of Beyoncé in a long time. Beyoncé's 10s albums were game changers that were talked about for years to come......the only thing significant about Eminem's albums post-2002 is that they were all critically mauled.

[Soda Pop Queen]

Of course y'all bring up Eminem in an effort to minimize her status and unprecedented achievements lol

 

It's gonna be a long 2024 for some of you, I fear.

 

[chaklux]

12 hours ago, FolkLover1989 said:

Well clearly people are listening to him more than anyone so does it matter what they know or not??

 

Cause they know themselves who they are listening to. Lol

Eminem is a legend of course and has a big catalogue, the second biggest act of this century commercially after Taylor , so his streaming stats make sense.

But the difference is the longevity , Eminem is a legacy act in 2024 while Bey is still very much relevant and competing with the current MPGs. This thread is about longevity and bey wins in that department!

[Yuanyu]

51 minutes ago, chaklux said:

Eminem is a legend of course and has a big catalogue, the second biggest act of this century commercially after Taylor , so his streaming stats make sense.

But the difference is the longevity , Eminem is a legacy act in 2024 while Bey is still very much relevant and competing with the current MPGs. This thread is about longevity and bey wins in that department!

Eminem is someone who without releasing an album in 4 years sells more than Beyoncé, if that makes him a legacy act I don't know what Beyoncé is then.
Not to mention that there is an age difference between the two of 10 years, which is the same as currently comparing Beyoncé to Taylor

[Feanor]

I don't know why Eminem's longevity or current relevance is even questioned, when that's not in line with his Google search volumes (this decade)…

 

His TikTok popularity…

#eminem - 3.3M posts | 38.2B views | 8.1M followers

#beyonce - 2.3M posts | 41.8B views | 5.4M followers

 

His Wikipedia page views (this decade)…

Eminem - 27.5M views

Beyoncé - 23.1M views

 

Or arguably the most important metric of all, his actual global music consumption (this decade)…

2020: Eminem #6 | Beyoncé N/A

2021: Eminem N/A | Beyoncé N/A

2022: Eminem #11 | Beyoncé N/A

2023: Eminem #14 | Beyoncé N/A

 

Eminem's name is just as relevant to current pop culture and the zeitgeist as Beyoncé's name, on top of him also having a significantly bigger presence musically in the 2020s.  This doesn't take away anything from Beyoncé, it just underlines the fact that Eminem is still the biggest artist of the past 30 years or so, and even now continues to see massive success.

 

Edited February 24 by Feanor

[chaeyonce]

They can keep holding onto those old record sales, Beyoncé is the only one still relevant now and will keep being so for years to come.

[MingYouToo]

15 hours ago, swissman said:

Eminem though? He may be statistically successful but his projects lack the scope and notoriety that Beyoncé's have. He might have the success factor, but certainly doesn't have the sort of iconography that Beyoncé has in terms of comparing her to the likes of Madonna and Michael Jackson, or submitting him to a discussion of pop longevity in regards to remaining as a relevant pop force, not just a successful one.

 

 

 

 

this.

 

i will say eminem has a sort of taylor swift-level of fervor among his rather narrow demographic, beyonce outshines him in the public discourse. there comes a point where commercial numbers become really a moot point when it comes to talking career relevance.

 

however, i will say eminem has a fanbase thats probably bigger than beyonce but that's it, em has probably lost all his gp appeal while beyonce still has amazing public appeal, i am a firm believer that her 2010s singles floppage was out of her own volition, and we can see in the 2020s that her return to form being a bigtime hitmaker is proof of that. 

 

ur absolutely right in saying em lacks notoriety the way bey has. sure he might outsell her overall if they push albums simultaneously but she has a higher chance of snagging 1 or 2 big hits from the album cycle + the spotlight will always be on her, not em. and i think that should count for something.

 

yeah bey is the true lasting legend of the 2000s.