Sannie Posted January 24 Posted January 24 The quickness with which leftists have gone from "protect vulnerable populations in the US" to "let them all die with Trump as President" all because of another country is so funny. Full mask-off moment for these try-hard virtue signalers. Biden just decisively won the NH primary and he wasn't even on the ballot. 3 1
Jon Snow Posted January 24 Posted January 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, St. Charles said: The original post said “People want everyone to suffer because of Palestine” and that person was referring to Trump winning. The post which quoted it said “Maybe you do deserve to suffer.” So the post read like “Yeah sure Biden should win, but maybe y’all deserve what’s coming to you.” If that’s not what they meant then I apologize to that user, but it’s not a stretch to interpret it this way imo. That is not what I meant. My point is, if the whole world is suffering (and the large part of that suffering is coming from your country, and by the people you got into office), what makes you better than the rest of them? What is your excuse to not suffer if the rest of the world is suffering? I do not wish people to suffer, I am explaining that you shouldn't have the privilege that other people don't. It is not ethical to want good for yourself if it means death of thousands of babies. I want Biden to win because his policies are better for the world and would mean less suffering, which itself is a f'd up thing to wish and no one should be in position to want a lesser evil. But my point is not ideological or political - it's philosophical: why do you deserve not to suffer if others are suffering (and you willingly choose to support people that make suffering possible)? Edited January 24 by Jon Snow 2 1
Jon Snow Posted January 24 Posted January 24 1 hour ago, If U Seek Amy said: This is disturbing extremism. You are wishing harm upon millions of innocent people with no power to do anything just trying to survive with no control of where they were born or what is going on. They try their best to change the system however they deem best, but everyone has different ideas of how to do this and it isn’t so simple as banding together and just fixing the country in mass. I get you’re upset but generalizing Americans as deserving of harm for what they have all done is so… awful. You can even observe Americans here who are sympathetic to many causes and are desperate for the world to be better. They only have so much power. Should they just suffer and die because this happens? They need basics to live and shouldn’t live an awful life simply because bad things happen. There will always be bad and good people everywhere. Don’t view all humans as simply nasty for the actions of some. Take a break from the internet because this is truly a disturbing post and it is clear it is detrimental to your mental health please. I am not generalizing Americans, I say that people who vote for people who fund genocides maybe should suffer. It's a point that is supposed to make you question your privilege, not extremism. If you haven't read the next post I wrote, go back and read it. I even thanked American people who do the right thing. I don't think you understood my point. No one wishes for Americans to die. And I don't think Americans are fighting to survive. (Those who are, aren't given voices and probably don't even vote and certainly aren't on ATRL.) Those basics that Americans already have, majority of the world doesn't have. People don't have clean water. Babies die of hunger every day. Americans are privileged compared to the rest of the world, and those who do not understand, really know nothing about the world. USA wages wars all over the globe, and kills innocent people, so you could take their resources. I don't think that's survival. Babies and people are being killed in Palestine every day, and American people fund that. Do you understand what I am saying? Americans pay for babies to be killed. And I say that those who support that maybe should suffer, because they do not know what real suffering is. And they make a lot of suffering possible. What gives you right to not suffer when you make all that suffering possible? There are people who are standing against the USA government, and the world will be eternally grateful to them. I really think you didn't understand a word I have said. Go read my posts again, please, and stop calling me an extremist. My money never went to killing babies and I have never voted for people who support or do killing babies. 4 2
WildHeart Posted January 24 Posted January 24 22 minutes ago, besaid said: The only civilians that have been "targeted" in this war are the 1400 dead Israelis on 10/7. You cannot hypocritically mourn the deaths of 1400 civilians while belittling the deaths of 20000 more civilians. Kindly **** off 3
St. Charles Posted January 24 Posted January 24 32 minutes ago, Jon Snow said: That is not what I meant. My point is, if the whole world is suffering (and the large part of that suffering is coming from your country, and by the people you got into office), what makes you better than the rest of them? What is your excuse to not suffer if the rest of the world is suffering? I do not wish people to suffer, I am explaining that you shouldn't have the privilege that other people don't. It is not ethical to want good for yourself if it means death of thousands of babies. I want Biden to win because his policies are better for the world and would mean less suffering, which itself is a f'd up thing to wish and no one should be in position to want a lesser evil. But my point is not ideological or political - it's philosophical: why do you deserve not to suffer if others are suffering (and you willingly choose to support people that make suffering possible)? Okay sorry for misinterpreting then. So it sounds like you are pointing out the unfairness of the situation that the United States is in when comparing it to less fortunate people around the world. Fair point, but my issue with this is how we frame what distinguishes the “suffering” and the “non-suffering.” It is already the case that millions of Americans are suffering in different ways. Health care bankrupts and financially ruins tens of thousands of people per year, there’s limited access to clean tap water in some areas, there are food deserts, underfunded schools, and inflationary forces that have effectively pushed millions below the poverty line over the last few years. The US is by no means a utopia, and our leaders often choose policies that screw the common man over. These are the same people that would be screwed over even more if Trump were to win the presidency. The people who are in a position to benefit from the suffering of others are not the ones who will pay restitution for the actions of the US. I get what you are saying, but don’t assume that many here are not already suffering and trying the best they can.
Varrock Posted January 24 Posted January 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, WildHeart said: You cannot hypocritically mourn the deaths of 1400 civilians while belittling the deaths of 20000 more civilians. Kindly **** off As if every post on this thread or the circle jerk of 5 users running 300 pages on the mega thread aren’t belittling 1400 Israeli deaths (and counting) on a daily basis Users on there are posting tweets celebrating IDF soldiers being decapitated or burned alive with no bans but I’m SURE you’re having that same energy about Israeli deaths vs. Palestinians shut the entire **** up please Y’all are some unhinged messy ass weirdos talking about death tolls like they’re some sort of video game scores. Hopefully y’all can keep score of how much Trump and his administration will ruin y’all’s lives starting in 2024 as well. Edited January 24 by Varrock 2 1 9
WildHeart Posted January 24 Posted January 24 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Varrock said: As if every post on this thread or the circle jerk of 5 users running 300 pages on the mega thread aren’t belittling 1400 Israeli deaths (and counting) on a daily basis Users on there are posting tweets celebrating IDF soldiers being decapitated or burned alive with no bans but I’m SURE you’re having that same energy about Israeli deaths vs. Palestinians shut the entire **** up please Y’all are some unhinged messy ass weirdos talking about death tolls like they’re some sort of video game scores. Hopefully y’all can keep score of how much Trump and his administration will ruin y’all’s lives starting in 2024 as well. A weirdo coming here to pop forum to spread Israel propaganda after being banned multiple times from the same forum calling others weirdos is really hilarious to me. You can **** off too and join your other dupes soon Edited January 24 by WildHeart 9 1 1
N.M.K. Posted January 24 Posted January 24 6 minutes ago, WildHeart said: A weirdo coming here to pop forum to spread Israel propaganda after being banned multiple times from the same forum calling others weirdos is really hilarious to me. You can **** off too and join your other dupes soon So acknowledging the beheadings of Israelis and the literal sale of an Israeli soldier's head is... Israeli propaganda? Giving Left Q-Anon realness! 4 1 4
Jon Snow Posted January 24 Posted January 24 41 minutes ago, St. Charles said: Okay sorry for misinterpreting then. So it sounds like you are pointing out the unfairness of the situation that the United States is in when comparing it to less fortunate people around the world. Fair point, but my issue with this is how we frame what distinguishes the “suffering” and the “non-suffering.” It is already the case that millions of Americans are suffering in different ways. Health care bankrupts and financially ruins tens of thousands of people per year, there’s limited access to clean tap water in some areas, there are food deserts, underfunded schools, and inflationary forces that have effectively pushed millions below the poverty line over the last few years. The US is by no means a utopia, and our leaders often choose policies that screw the common man over. These are the same people that would be screwed over even more if Trump were to win the presidency. The people who are in a position to benefit from the suffering of others are not the ones who will pay restitution for the actions of the US. I get what you are saying, but don’t assume that many here are not already suffering and trying the best they can. It's okay, I just haven't explained it well and I was full of rage because I have read some really evil things in this thread. My wording is often bad because English isn't my first language, and I'm unable to explain things well. But I do not wish for people to suffer. I know that there a lot of people in the USA that need better conditions, and I have already said that USA is not a democracy. Many people are systematically excluded and pushed on the margins of the society. However, they are not those who are supporting Biden by saying they don't deserve to suffer and some others should so they would have their rights. Those who are supporting him aren't actually suffering and are using minorities and marginalized groups just for the argument. There was a Latin user that said their family members were deported during Biden administration. Those people are the ones that need their rights protected. And they aren't supporting Biden, as that user has said. My point is that you should push for the better conditions and not settle for something just because something else might be worse. If you do that, you'd get to the point where Trump would be one you're endorsing, just because there are worse than him. I just support those who say that supporting Biden is not something good and I call out those who say that they are more important than the thousands that are being killed. The thread is full of people who deny the genocide is happening and saying that it is right for Israel to kill them and those who say that their lives matter more. They don't. The other thing is that things won't be bad only if Trump wins, they're gonna be bad either way and they depend on much more than Trump vs Biden. The whole system is bad, and those who blame Trump are ignorant. They're gonna lose the rights anyway. They have to stand up against the system, and not just one insane Republican. Supporting Biden means supporting the system that makes all of these things possible. Still, as I have said, I wish he wins because it's less bad for the world. But it won't be good either way. He's just continuing the system. I know that because I live in a country with an authoritarian regime. And guess what - USA government helps it stay in power, just because it benefits them. I have experience that you don't have and I know that Biden winning wouldn't keep anyone's rights safe. Comparatively, it is proven that authoritarians aren't the ones who are the most responsible for democracy's downfall - it is those who claim they are democratic. They never end up saving the democracy, if there even was any democracy as we begin with.
Varrock Posted January 24 Posted January 24 10 minutes ago, WildHeart said: A weirdo coming here to pop forum to spread Israel propaganda after being banned multiple times from the same forum calling others weirdos is really hilarious to me. You can **** off too and join your other dupes soon I have no clue what you’re talking about but I’ll let your deranged ass seethe and run around in circles as I understand chronic mental illness is a real issue. I won’t drag you any longer, I’ll just let Trump’s admin do that next year 4 minutes ago, N.M.K. said: So acknowledging the beheadings of Israelis and the literal sale of an Israeli soldier's head is... Israeli propaganda? Giving Left Q-Anon realness! They don’t even hide it anymore
WildHeart Posted January 24 Posted January 24 6 minutes ago, N.M.K. said: So acknowledging the beheadings of Israelis and the literal sale of an Israeli soldier's head is... Israeli propaganda? Giving Left Q-Anon realness! No, THIS is Israeli propaganda 17 hours ago, Varrock said: How is he “perfectly fine” with genocide? Have you even been aware of his scrutiny of the Israeli government for the last like month or more? Or do you live in your own world? Genocide is terrorists parachuting from the sky like it’s a video game with machine guns and machetes slicing civilians’ throats, decapitating them, raping, and lighting them on fire - not a country defending itself from a terrorist group swearing they will do it over and over again. That’s called war, babes. 15 hours ago, Varrock said: Have you made any comments about the ongoing Uyghur genocide and the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of civilians imprisoned in concentration camps? (You know, an actual genocide and not a country defending itself against terrorists) Any other questions?
St. Charles Posted January 24 Posted January 24 4 minutes ago, Jon Snow said: It's okay, I just haven't explained it well and I was full of rage because I have read some really evil things in this thread. My wording is often bad because English isn't my first language, and I'm unable to explain things well. But I do not wish for people to suffer. I know that there a lot of people in the USA that need better conditions, and I have already said that USA is not a democracy. Many people are systematically excluded and pushed on the margins of the society. However, they are not those who are supporting Biden by saying they don't deserve to suffer and some others should so they would have their rights. Those who are supporting him aren't actually suffering and are using minorities and marginalized groups just for the argument. There was a Latin user that said their family members were deported during Biden administration. Those people are the ones that need their rights protected. And they aren't supporting Biden, as that user has said. My point is that you should push for the better conditions and not settle for something just because something else might be worse. If you do that, you'd get to the point where Trump would be one you're endorsing, just because there are worse than him. I just support those who say that supporting Biden is not something good and I call out those who say that they are more important than the thousands that are being killed. The thread is full of people who deny the genocide is happening and saying that it is right for Israel to kill them and those who say that their lives matter more. They don't. The other thing is that things won't be bad only if Trump wins, they're gonna be bad either way and they depend on much more than Trump vs Biden. The whole system is bad, and those who blame Trump are ignorant. They're gonna lose the rights anyway. They have to stand up against the system, and not just one insane Republican. Supporting Biden means supporting the system that makes all of these things possible. Still, as I have said, I wish he wins because it's less bad for the world. But it won't be good either way. He's just continuing the system. I know that because I live in a country with an authoritarian regime. And guess what - USA government helps it stay in power, just because it benefits them. I have experience that you don't have and I know that Biden winning wouldn't keep anyone's rights safe. Comparatively, it is proven that authoritarians aren't the ones who are the most responsible for democracy's downfall - it is those who claim they are democratic. They never end up saving the democracy, if there even was any democracy as we begin with. Maybe this applies to people who enthusiastically support Biden, but those don’t seem to be in large numbers. I think a lot of people are, as others have mentioned, making the best of an unfortunate situation. My question is that if these people are morally corrupt for voting Biden, what is the best alternative action they could take and how would this lead to less suffering worldwide? Because I’m not understanding what the expectation is.
Varrock Posted January 24 Posted January 24 1 minute ago, WildHeart said: No, THIS is Israeli propaganda Any other questions? Literal facts? WHEWW y’all live in your own little deranged bubble huh Thank god none of your sociopathic opinions actually translate into the real world (and never will) 2
WildHeart Posted January 24 Posted January 24 4 minutes ago, Varrock said: I won’t drag you any longer, I’ll just let Trump’s admin do that next year You can keep waiting for that one more year but i definitely won't wait for ATRL's admin to do their job with a quick dupe check until then. Too bad Varrock is not going to experience the election thread with rest of us, maybe your next dupe 2
N.M.K. Posted January 24 Posted January 24 6 minutes ago, WildHeart said: No, THIS is Israeli propaganda Any other questions? Yes, I'm curious what about the statements are incorrect or propaganda. Quote terrorists parachuting from the sky like it’s a video game with machine guns and machetes slicing civilians’ throats, decapitating them, raping, and lighting them on fire - that.. in fact happened. Hamas literally proudly recorded and boasted about themselves doing so. Also, it is fact that Biden has been at odds with Netanyahu over the past few months and has been pushing him toward limiting the response in Gaza and toward a two-state solution. Whether you think that is enough is up to you and personal opinion. But I'm not sure how that is a lie or propaganda when it has been reported and verified by the parties involved and third-party sources? 3 1
LIT Posted January 24 Posted January 24 Supporting genocide is indeed a red line for many voters! We have watched our president shamelessly spread lies and misinformation ('40 beheaded babies') to manufacture consent for Israel's genocide of the Palestinian people; we have watched him insidiously cast doubt on the number of Palestinian civilian casualties; we have watched him provide Israel with impunity as they commit countless unspeakable horrors against Palestinians on a daily basis. President Biden allows the slaughter of thousands of children and infants, as long as it serves US imperial interests. If you choose to vote for him because you believe it to be harm reduction, that's your choice - but I think it's absolutely wild to be scolding anyone who chooses to stay home or vote third-party. 6 2
Varrock Posted January 24 Posted January 24 (edited) 5 minutes ago, WildHeart said: You can keep waiting for that one more year but i definitely won't wait for ATRL's admin to do their job with a quick dupe check until then. Too bad Varrock is not going to experience the election thread with rest of us, maybe your next dupe User WildHeart sits at his vanity with tears coming down his acne-filled face as he, yet again, lost a debate on ATRL concerning a subject he knows nothing about. As his crocodile tears subdue, he looks at himself through his broken mirror and reaffirms “you are beautiful! You are smart!”. He proceeds to fix his poorly bleached and dyed pastel pink hair and re-adjusts his crusted septum ring as he prepares for another full day of hard work being a social justice warrior on a pop forum site while his mother and father yell at him in disappointment everyday to get a job. Edited January 24 by Varrock 4
Sombre Posted January 24 Posted January 24 4 minutes ago, Varrock said: User WildHeart sits at his vanity with tears coming down his acne-filled face as he, yet again, lost a debate on ATRL concerning a subject he knows nothing about. As his crocodile tears subdue, he looks at himself through his broken mirror and reaffirms “you are beautiful! You are smart!”. He proceeds to fix his poorly bleached and dyed pastel pink hair and re-adjusts his crusted septum ring as he prepares for another full day of hard work being a social justice warrior on a pop forum site while his mother and father yell at him in disappointment everyday to get a job. You know you've lost the argument once you start with personal insults. You're a dupe quoting an ATRL post from 2014 but WildHeart is supposed to be the jobless one? 7
N.M.K. Posted January 24 Posted January 24 7 minutes ago, LIT said: Supporting genocide is indeed a red line for many voters! We have watched our president shamelessly spread lies and misinformation ('40 beheaded babies') to manufacture consent for Israel's genocide of the Palestinian people; we have watched him insidiously cast doubt on the number of Palestinian civilian casualties; we have watched him provide Israel with impunity as they commit countless unspeakable horrors against Palestinians on a daily basis. President Biden allows the slaughter of thousands of children and infants, as long as it serves US imperial interests. If you choose to vote for him because you believe it to be harm reduction, that's your choice - but I think it's absolutely wild to be scolding anyone who chooses to stay home or vote third-party. Ahh yes. So it turned out it was not verified there were 40 beheaded babies. Just babies shot to death and burnt alive – And some just taken hostage! 6
wastedpotential Posted January 24 Posted January 24 9 minutes ago, Varrock said: User WildHeart sits at his vanity Oh girl a 'Nicki sits at her vanity' reference is not going to help you pass the dupe check I hope you've already got your next account prepared, because you may as well just write this one off. 1 6
WildHeart Posted January 24 Posted January 24 4 minutes ago, N.M.K. said: that.. in fact happened. Hamas literally proudly recorded and boasted about themselves doing so. It indeed happened. And we rightfully called it as what it is, a massacre of innocent civilians. And it is happening again in a different way to Palestinians now. And that's the response 22 minutes ago, WildHeart said: You know, an actual genocide and not a country defending itself against terrorists You can't be that slow... 1
Varrock Posted January 24 Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, wastedpotential said: Oh girl a 'Nicki sits at her vanity' reference is not going to help you pass the dupe check I hope you've already got your next account prepared, because you may as well just write this one off. You must also be slow 3
Jon Snow Posted January 24 Posted January 24 37 minutes ago, St. Charles said: My question is that if these people are morally corrupt for voting Biden, what is the best alternative action they could take and how would this lead to less suffering worldwide? Because I’m not understanding what the expectation is. It is not morally wrong to vote for Biden because he's the lesser evil. It is wrong to vote for him saying "I don't deserve to suffer, let others die". Morally, they would be expected to stand up against the genocide and demand the USA government to stop funding the genocide. If you sit and watch your money being used as a resource to kill babies, you cannot be morally right. You have their blood on your hands. You're not as guilty as Biden and his administration, but you still are guilty if you don't do anything just because it benefits you that things stay the same. People should demand governments to stop the systemic marginalization of minorities inside the country, and funding genocides outside. Those people who protest are right. They demand from a president that they have elected to start respecting their opinions. I support those kinds of protest. You can not do much, but you did something. Maybe something will change. When there's enough people it will. And by doing that, you're helping the democracy. If you continue supporting genocide-funding governments, you won't save your rights. It always comes back to haunt you. 2 2
Jon Snow Posted January 24 Posted January 24 43 minutes ago, Varrock said: User WildHeart sits at his vanity with tears coming down his acne-filled face as he, yet again, lost a debate on ATRL concerning a subject he knows nothing about. As his crocodile tears subdue, he looks at himself through his broken mirror and reaffirms “you are beautiful! You are smart!”. He proceeds to fix his poorly bleached and dyed pastel pink hair and re-adjusts his crusted septum ring as he prepares for another full day of hard work being a social justice warrior on a pop forum site while his mother and father yell at him in disappointment everyday to get a job. How even old are you?
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