celeb news Pollstar: Taylor Swift is biggest dominating artist in culture since prime MJ/Madonna

[Strawberry Bubble]

5 minutes ago, kyoshi said:

Please all the argentinian dates were packed with chileans, colombians, peruvians, uruguayans, etc. Don't say LATAM and just name your country  because you know damn well she didn't perform in Chile as a result of their national stadium already being booked around those dates and they couldn't make it work but even their president was begging for eras tour dates...

 

Just like she won't perform in the Philippines even when it's her strongest market not because she can't sell tickets there but bc they don't have a stadium where they can fit stage ffs

I can't believe that I have to use Google for you, but here it goes: 

 

Here, you can check Taylor's Spotify stats and see the big difference between the consumption of her music in Argentina, Brazil and Mexico and the rest of Latin America: https://kworb.net/itunes/artist/taylorswift.html. 

 

And you can see here that her biggest cities are located in Mexico and Brazil, too: https://www.instagram.com/p/CjYnS2QOOlZ/?hl=es

 

But, nevertheless, stats and Spotify numbers are irrelevant for my point: even if Bad Bunny is bigger than Michael Jackson in Spotify, that doesn't mean that he is the biggest musician ever. 

 

But, I mean, if you want to believe that Taylor is the biggest female artist ever, go on. I don't think that your perception will change the fact that today's music industry is declining, and women like Adele or Britney were dominating a much healthier music industry back in the day. 

 

[.Odyssey.]

It’s no question that Taylor’s success is absolutely massive, but is it possible she could be big enough to eventually become the second biggest woman in pop of all time, right behind Madonna?

 

Given her success with albums and tours, it feels like she’s really the only woman who could potentially claim the title at this point. I’d argue she’s bigger than Celine, Whitney, and even Britney.

 

Given Madonna just isn’t surpassable given her cultural and artistic impact, does Taylor have a fair shot as the Veep of Pop?

[Wolf Alice]

37 minutes ago, Sebastián Muñoz said:

I'm saying that she is not able to command attention as singers could back in the day, thanks to the centralization of media and entertainment

Which I'm saying is still ridiculous to base off of your perception. You're saying Britney could because you personally saw her on MTV/TV as if that matters specially in Asia other than maybe Japan where it was completely irrelevant. I'd argue that Taylor successfully conquered new media in a way none of them were able to do it without the help of massive machines pushing pop stars like back in the day. Taylor's strength always has been UGC and in the new age of media where UGC is king, she is able to control conversations and is permeating through to demographics via social media in a way it wasn't possible in a global scale before. And she is actually keeping them engaged and translating into tangible consumption in not just music but also big screen now which is more than I can say for the MTV era popstars who benefited from being chosen as the push by the label.

 

Meanwhile Adele is a completely different case and shouldn't even be combined with the likes of MTV stars. She's above them and was able to capture the zeitgeist without having to do any of the things you said was important to get there.

[GraceRandolph]

I mean probably? Can we create a mega thread for this discussion. It seems like we have a thread about whether Taylor is as big as Madonna every day now.

[naval23]

The third biggest 

[kyoshi]

14 minutes ago, Sebastián Muñoz said:

I can't believe that I have to use Google for you, but here it goes: 

 

Here, you can check Taylor's Spotify stats and see the big difference between the consumption of her music in Argentina, Brazil and Mexico and the rest of Latin America: https://kworb.net/itunes/artist/taylorswift.html. 

 

And you can see here that her biggest cities are located in Mexico and Brazil, too: https://www.instagram.com/p/CjYnS2QOOlZ/?hl=es

 

But, nevertheless, stats and Spotify numbers are irrelevant for my point: even if Bad Bunny is bigger than Michael Jackson in Spotify, that doesn't mean that he is the biggest musician ever. 

 

But, I mean, if you want to believe that Taylor is the biggest female artist ever, go on. I don't think that your perception will change the fact that today's music industry is declining, and women like Adele or Britney were dominating a much healthier music industry back in the day. 

 

You first inserted the tour tickets argument and when corrected you now move the goalpost to stream numbers? Can't you understand that Taylor's first commercial peak was 10 years ago??? she has been dominating the music industry when it was "healthier" whatever tf that means until present day...

 

Girl... where are you from? 

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by kyoshi

[elincomprendid]

No she won't, she'll be #1 

[WildOne]

7 minutes ago, .Odyssey. said:

Given Madonna just isn’t surpassable

That’s not a given. Madonna’s legacy is incredible and she’s still able to do huge touring numbers, but she’s also been at this 25 years longer than Taylor. Taylor’s entire career is not quite 20 years yet. In 25 years, Taylor’s legacy and impact on pop music may well overshadow Madonna’s. 

[BrandNewBrandon]

Taylor has ZERO #1 hits in most countries outside of Anglosphere and her sales in those countries aren't spectacular. She's massive but I feel like to be in Madonna's league you need to have SALES, HITS, ICONIC MOMENTS, IMPACT and Taylor checks of mostly the first box. 

 

She also doesn't have that massive of a peak compared to her peers (Adele, Lady Gaga), doesn't have the amount of smash hits (Rihanna) and acclaim/impact (Beyoncé) and that's only her own generation. 

 

And comparing her current sales to those of past MPGs is also utterly unfair considering Madonna had, for example, 100 million listeners all in all but only 20 million of them bought an album that gave her revenue and counted towards her all time sales whereas nowadays Taylor can have 100 million all in all and 99 percent of them will count as revenue and towards her overall sales. 

 

I think Taylor might be the new Mariah. For those who lived through the 2000s know that Mariah stans were claiming she was the Queen of Pop only to have people outside of Anglosphere say that Whitney, Celine and Madonna were much bigger (which they were) and Mariah fans were mocked for her being a bit "local" compared to the others. And then all those discounted singles she did to go #1 because she was (and is) very into charts. Taylor is not as big as her peers outside of Anglosphere AND she's been dragged for her discounts and remixes. Add to that, both are known to be the most skilled songwriters of their generation and known for writing their own material. Taylor could be the new Mariah. 

 

Anyone living outside of Anglosphere could tell you that Taylor is not as massive. Sure she has the biggest tour of all time but so did U2 for YEARS but that doesn't mean they were bigger than Michael Jackson and Madonna either. 

 

I don't get the constant fixation on Taylor being this or that. Especially from her fans that don't like it if you say she isn't THE biggest pop star of all time, which she is obviously not. It's incredibly arrogant. 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by BrandNewBrandon

[elevate]

In the shadowed depths of a moonlit grove, ancient enchantresses full of arcane wisdom conspire with whispered incantations to help Tate overtake Taylor, relegating miss Americana to #3 at best

[byzantium]

I would argue that Taylor is already #2.  I know Celine still has more units but it’s extremely likely Taylor closes the gap  in the next few months.  
 

Considering Taylor has already surpassed Madonna in a small but growing number of countries, it’s entirely likely she is in competition for biggest female pop artist of all time. 

[FolkLover1989]

4 minutes ago, BrandNewBrandon said:

Taylor has ZERO #1 hits in most countries outside of Anglosphere and her sales in those countries aren't spectacular. She's massive but I feel like to be in Madonna's league you need to have SALES, HITS, ICONIC MOMENTS, IMPACT and Taylor checks of mostly the first box. 

 

She also doesn't have that massive of a peak compared to her peers (Adele, Lady Gaga), doesn't have the amount of smash hits (Rihanna) and acclaim/impact (Beyoncé) and that's only her own generation. 

 

And comparing her current sales to those of past MPGs is also utterly unfair considering Madonna had, for example, 100 million listeners all in all but only 20 million of them bought an album that gave her revenue and counted towards her all time sales whereas nowadays Taylor can have 100 million all in all and 99 percent of them will count as revenue and towards her overall sales. 

 

I think Taylor might be the new Mariah. For those who lived through the 2000s know that Mariah stans were claiming she was the Queen of Pop only to have people outside of Anglosphere say that Whitney, Celine and Madonna were much bigger (which they were) and Mariah fans were mocked for her being a bit "local" compared to the others. And then all those discounted singles she did to go #1 because she was (and is) very into charts. Taylor is not as big as her peers outside of Anglosphere AND she's been dragged for her discounts and remixes. Add to that, both are known to be the most skilled songwriters of their generation and known for writing their own material. Taylor could be the new Mariah. 

 

Anyone living outside of Anglosphere could tell you that Taylor is not as massive. Sure she has the biggest tour of all time but so did U2 for YEARS but that doesn't mean they were bigger than Michael Jackson and Madonna either. 

 

I don't get the constant fixation on Taylor being this or that. Especially from her fans that don't like it if you say she isn't THE biggest pop star of all time, which she is obviously not. It's incredibly arrogant. 

 

 

I live outside of Anglosphere

 

I live in SEA , Madonna was never as big as Taylor is here

 

So what now???

 

What you are saying is incredibly wrong when Taylor biggest fanbase comes from Asia. Next time do research

[FolkLover1989]

6 minutes ago, BrandNewBrandon said:

Taylor has ZERO #1 hits in most countries outside of Anglosphere and her sales in those countries aren't spectacular. She's massive but I feel like to be in Madonna's league you need to have SALES, HITS, ICONIC MOMENTS, IMPACT and Taylor checks of mostly the first box. 

 

She also doesn't have that massive of a peak compared to her peers (Adele, Lady Gaga), doesn't have the amount of smash hits (Rihanna) and acclaim/impact (Beyoncé) and that's only her own generation. 

 

And comparing her current sales to those of past MPGs is also utterly unfair considering Madonna had, for example, 100 million listeners all in all but only 20 million of them bought an album that gave her revenue and counted towards her all time sales whereas nowadays Taylor can have 100 million all in all and 99 percent of them will count as revenue and towards her overall sales. 

 

I think Taylor might be the new Mariah. For those who lived through the 2000s know that Mariah stans were claiming she was the Queen of Pop only to have people outside of Anglosphere say that Whitney, Celine and Madonna were much bigger (which they were) and Mariah fans were mocked for her being a bit "local" compared to the others. And then all those discounted singles she did to go #1 because she was (and is) very into charts. Taylor is not as big as her peers outside of Anglosphere AND she's been dragged for her discounts and remixes. Add to that, both are known to be the most skilled songwriters of their generation and known for writing their own material. Taylor could be the new Mariah. 

 

Anyone living outside of Anglosphere could tell you that Taylor is not as massive. Sure she has the biggest tour of all time but so did U2 for YEARS but that doesn't mean they were bigger than Michael Jackson and Madonna either. 

 

I don't get the constant fixation on Taylor being this or that. Especially from her fans that don't like it if you say she isn't THE biggest pop star of all time, which she is obviously not. It's incredibly arrogant. 

 

 

Btw

 

Which peer of Taylor Swift is bigger than her outside of Anglosphere???

 

I will tell you ... literally no one in her generation 

 

 

[BrandNewBrandon]

4 minutes ago, byzantium said:

Considering Taylor has already surpassed Madonna in a small but growing number of countries, it’s entirely likely she is in competition for biggest female pop artist of all time. 

What countries? In Europe she doesn't have one album as big as Madonna's Confessions/True Blue/Like a Virgin and she literally has ZERO #1 singles outside of English-speaking countries. And then there's Latin America as well. 

[Goaty]

29 minutes ago, .Odyssey. said:

Given Madonna just isn’t surpassable

We have decades and decades of music consumption ahead of us. I think it's naive to confidently assert no one will ever surpass Madonna.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Goaty

[Cheers]

Second? wtf? You think Taylor & Swifites will settle for #2? She’s going to be the first

[SmittenCake]

these constant Taylor Swift threads...

 

 

 

 

[BrandNewBrandon]

Just now, FolkLover1989 said:

Btw

 

Which peer of Taylor Swift is bigger than her outside of Anglosphere???

 

I will tell you ... literally no one in her generation 

 

 

Adele: 30x Diamond certifications

 

Lady Gaga: 13x Diamond certifications

 

Taylor Swift: 1 Diamond certification and that's in the US.

 

So do YOUR research. 

[Cruel Summer]

From a purely commercial perspective, Taylor will be #2 within a few months and #1 in a few years. Given that, I think the answer is no - because she’s on a trajectory to be #1. Certainly surpassing Madonna as the “biggest” is a little more complex than simply moving more units, but the numbers are such a large part of the equation that it becomes almost inevitable for her to be considered “bigger” once she takes the commercial lead.

[Carry My Heart]

5 minutes ago, BrandNewBrandon said:

So do YOUR research. 

Taylor hasn't updated her WW certifications in years  Sit down.

[Alexz]

39 minutes ago, naval23 said:

The third biggest 

Who's #1 and 2? Britney and Madonna?

[BrandNewBrandon]

1 minute ago, Carry My Heart said:

Taylor hasn't updated her WW certifications in years  Sit down.

You think she's going to just jump from Gold/Platinum to 10x that with a single update?  You think she sold an additional 400k in France or Italy since 2019 of 1989 her biggest album or do you think Evermore or Red are somehow going to push 1989 off a cliff and somehow get more sales? 

 

These mental gymnastics ain't changing a thing that 1989 (her biggest era) only has 1 Diamond certification and it will not be getting 30 Diamond plaques suddenly after one update. Unless you of course think she sold more of 1989 since 2019 then when it was peaking in 2014 

 

Either way, take a seat. 

[Klein]

36 minutes ago, BrandNewBrandon said:

Taylor has ZERO #1 hits in most countries outside of Anglosphere and her sales in those countries aren't spectacular. She's massive but I feel like to be in Madonna's league you need to have SALES, HITS, ICONIC MOMENTS, IMPACT and Taylor checks of mostly the first box. 

 

She also doesn't have that massive of a peak compared to her peers (Adele, Lady Gaga), doesn't have the amount of smash hits (Rihanna) and acclaim/impact (Beyoncé) and that's only her own generation. 

 

And comparing her current sales to those of past MPGs is also utterly unfair considering Madonna had, for example, 100 million listeners all in all but only 20 million of them bought an album that gave her revenue and counted towards her all time sales whereas nowadays Taylor can have 100 million all in all and 99 percent of them will count as revenue and towards her overall sales. 

 

I think Taylor might be the new Mariah. For those who lived through the 2000s know that Mariah stans were claiming she was the Queen of Pop only to have people outside of Anglosphere say that Whitney, Celine and Madonna were much bigger (which they were) and Mariah fans were mocked for her being a bit "local" compared to the others. And then all those discounted singles she did to go #1 because she was (and is) very into charts. Taylor is not as big as her peers outside of Anglosphere AND she's been dragged for her discounts and remixes. Add to that, both are known to be the most skilled songwriters of their generation and known for writing their own material. Taylor could be the new Mariah. 

 

Anyone living outside of Anglosphere could tell you that Taylor is not as massive. Sure she has the biggest tour of all time but so did U2 for YEARS but that doesn't mean they were bigger than Michael Jackson and Madonna either. 

 

I don't get the constant fixation on Taylor being this or that. Especially from her fans that don't like it if you say she isn't THE biggest pop star of all time, which she is obviously not. It's incredibly arrogant. 

 

 

Ok, JaXXon 

[elincomprendid]

 

  

10 minutes ago, BrandNewBrandon said:

Taylor has ZERO #1 hits in most countries outside of Anglosphere and her sales in those countries aren't spectacular. She's massive but I feel like to be in Madonna's league you need to have SALES, HITS, ICONIC MOMENTS, IMPACT and Taylor checks of mostly the first box. 

 

Comparing #1s out of the anglosphere or whatever you want to use is dumb, cause times has completely changed lol. As markets keep developing they grow to become much more local and "restrictive" to international music, just take a look at Japan charts that is one of the biggest markets and you'll notice how fast that happened there.

 

 

10 minutes ago, BrandNewBrandon said:

She also doesn't have that massive of a peak compared to her peers (Adele, Lady Gaga), doesn't have the amount of smash hits (Rihanna) and acclaim/impact (Beyoncé) and that's only her own generation. 

 

What you don't get what makes Madonna & Taylor special, is they might not have the biggest hits of all time, might not have the biggest albums of all time, might not have the most acclaimed albums of all time I was about to add tours but guess Taylor has that one   but they have insane consistency in all those aspects with back to back huge albums and eras. 

 

  

10 minutes ago, BrandNewBrandon said:

And comparing her current sales to those of past MPGs is also utterly unfair considering Madonna had, for example, 100 million listeners all in all but only 20 million of them bought an album that gave her revenue and counted towards her all time sales whereas nowadays Taylor can have 100 million all in all and 99 percent of them will count as revenue and towards her overall sales. 

 

Well but 20M sales are 20M sales, 99M people streaming are NOT 20M sales. For achieving 20M sales from 99M people streaming you'd requiere each one of them to stream 252 songs with a paid on demand service, most casual listeners do NOT do that 

And even then you are talking about the boost cause by streaming but what about the obvious decline in pure sales? Both factors balance out lol
 

 

10 minutes ago, BrandNewBrandon said:

I think Taylor might be the new Mariah. For those who lived through the 2000s know that Mariah stans were claiming she was the Queen of Pop only to have people outside of Anglosphere say that Whitney, Celine and Madonna were much bigger (which they were) and Mariah fans were mocked for her being a bit "local" compared to the others. And then all those discounted singles she did to go #1 because she was (and is) very into charts. Taylor is not as big as her peers outside of Anglosphere AND she's been dragged for her discounts and remixes. Add to that, both are known to be the most skilled songwriters of their generation and known for writing their own material. Taylor could be the new Mariah. 

 

First of all the queen of pop will always revolve around the anglosphere cause it's a term use for international music and international music as of now (and probably for a long time) is ruled by english music. No one will say some random french act is the queen of pop . So for people out of anglosphere the queen of pop title will go to whoever is the biggest international act and the gap right now Taylor has with her peers is undeniable, look at the eras tour selling STADIUMS multiple dates everywhere she goes, she is the most streamed female (international) act almost in every country. Check albums charts in countries, Midnights still ruling, charting multiple albums in top 10 in lots of countries. 1989 TV blocking huge acts, the list can keep going.
 

 

10 minutes ago, BrandNewBrandon said:

Anyone living outside of Anglosphere could tell you that Taylor is not as massive. Sure she has the biggest tour of all time but so did U2 for YEARS but that doesn't mean they were bigger than Michael Jackson and Madonna either. 

 

The hipocrisy of saying this after talking about getting dragged for discounts and remixes, dude no one in real life cares about those things  and that has no impact on who is the queen of pop under people conception.

And as a person living outside of Anglosphere I can tell you Taylor is as massive

[GoatGly]

I’m crying at how certain stan bases use “well she felt bigger!” as their reasoning.