ATRL Moderator supaspaz Posted December 4, 2023 ATRL Moderator Posted December 4, 2023 10 minutes ago, swissman said: Is what you're saying that because she has an artistic image the Recording Academy respects, they can look past her race to take her seriously? Because this is an inherent problem too, that the "image" of the musician (be it race or genre or assumed involvement) is as important to a win as the musical content, if not more. To me this seems backward, as the award is for the album (and all its contributors). In SZA's case, she may have the artistic profile of Lauryn Hill, who produced all her own songs and solo-wrote all but four on her AOTY-winning album, but in actuality, SZA's album has as many as ten writers on a song, as few as three and what seems to be an average of about 5 or 6 writers per song and no production credits. Please don't mistake this as any shade or disrespect to SZA who truly is an artist. I clearly value a finished work and the artist's vision more than trivia about who wrote what. I'm just stating how factors that've been used to excuse Black women losing AOTY in the past like "It's not about race, it's about writing credits" are still at play and that this shows a bias in how some Black women can be voted deserving of the top honour, but other's do not. Going into statistics, white women have won AOTY 2x more in the last 15 years alone than Black women have in the entire history of the Grammys. Of course, perhaps this is due to Black women like Beyoncé, Rihanna or even Mariah not also having the "singer-songwriter" profile but there are plenty of deserving, talented, amazing Black women artists who do, they just haven't been given the recognition they deserve as per the Recording Academy's standards. Yeah, I think it’s important to consider what the Recording Academy’s biases truly are. They are inherently a rockist organization, which ends up mapping onto race as well. Beyoncé isn’t being denied Album of the Year because she’s a Black woman, but there’s no doubt that contemporary R&B (with sampling, co-writers and an emphasis on production and performance over lyricism, for example) doesn’t fit with what the Recording Academy generally likes to reward, so she and other Black women don’t win. SZA better fits that Harry Styles/Taylor Swift/Adele mold of being a pop star who presents as a singer-songwriter. It’s not to say she’s a slam dunk, but SOS is more in the Grammy wheelhouse than Renaissance, unfortunately. 2
supertiffany Posted December 4, 2023 Author Posted December 4, 2023 6 minutes ago, supaspaz said: Yeah, I think it’s important to consider what the Recording Academy’s biases truly are. They are inherently a rockist organization, which ends up mapping onto race as well. Beyoncé isn’t being denied Album of the Year because she’s a Black woman, but there’s no doubt that contemporary R&B (with sampling, co-writers and an emphasis on production and performance over lyricism, for example) doesn’t fit with what the Recording Academy generally likes to reward, so she and other Black women don’t win. SZA better fits that Harry Styles/Taylor Swift/Adele mold of being a pop star who presents as a singer-songwriter. It’s not to say she’s a slam dunk, but SOS is more in the Grammy wheelhouse than Renaissance, unfortunately. it seems that most of AOTY prefers containing songs with strong LYRICS or LYRICISM isnt it? was there an AOTY has weak lyricism but great production or sound?
chiliam Posted December 4, 2023 Posted December 4, 2023 im also rooting for Sza or Lana to win this year. But honesty if SOS doesnt win, i will still understand cause it is a long album with noticeable fillers and not as cohensive as album voters will normally choose.
ATRL Moderator supaspaz Posted December 4, 2023 ATRL Moderator Posted December 4, 2023 15 minutes ago, supertiffany said: it seems that most of AOTY prefers containing songs with strong LYRICS or LYRICISM isnt it? was there an AOTY has weak lyricism but great production or sound? I guess maybe Daft Punk, but that was a decade ago. They definitely value “songwriting” first and foremost, but they have an old-fashioned idea of what “songwriting” entails. 1
Polgg48 Posted December 4, 2023 Posted December 4, 2023 trigger me seeing this thread, like... look at beyonce team and why she got most grammy ever and endless praises from everyone, then look at one collab off grammy who is too lazy to campaign her potential best career night, get off and WORK for campaign NOW.
Fleahive Posted December 4, 2023 Posted December 4, 2023 I mean was Bruno Mar’s album a lyrical masterpiece or just a catchy album cosplaying black art? Yes being black and a woman will affect her. She has a better chance because her music is more mainstream and the old white men that vote will tolerate it better than a Beyoncé album but they still won’t be foaming at the mouth to vote her over Taylor. She was nominated a ton in 2016 and lost every award I won’t be shocked if it happens again.
Achilles. Posted December 4, 2023 Posted December 4, 2023 SZA does have a lot going for her. She’s in the perfect sweet spot of critical acclaim and commercial success, with the “real artist” image and breakthrough sophomore narrative that the Grammys typically eat up. The fact that Taylor is in there with an even bigger album that is also very acclaimed could be an obstacle for her, but it also sort of sets SZA up as an underdog up against the biggest star in the world, who’s already won this award three times. It may not be as much of a hindrance as people think—it’s exhausting rooting for the antihero, but exciting to root for the underdog. Aside from that, my other worry is that her music may be seen as too vulgar or explicit to win the top prize. Sure, albums with explicit language and content have won AOTY in the past, but it’s still a pretty rare event and I don’t think any of them swore quite as much as SZA does, either. 1
Maxxxine Posted December 4, 2023 Posted December 4, 2023 No but that album being hot garbage might be. I’m sorry we don’t need lyrics talking about “you was balls deep” and “I just killed my ex” being awarded AOTY 2
BrokenMachine Posted December 4, 2023 Posted December 4, 2023 (edited) Anything could happen. Voters with inclined preference for 'pop' girls might get divided between Lana, Olivia, Miley and Taylor, decimating their chances to win and increasing the chances for SZA/Janelle/boygenius/Jon to get Ed Sheeran'd from it Edited December 4, 2023 by BrokenMachine
Rep2000 Posted December 4, 2023 Posted December 4, 2023 If what-her-name-that-I-cant-remember-right-now can keep collecting Grammy nominations or even SOTY with relatively no clouts, then SZA would be perfect to take over that one instead. SZA is a popular singer-songwriter and the Grammys love eating that **** up.
ATRL Moderator supaspaz Posted December 4, 2023 ATRL Moderator Posted December 4, 2023 9 minutes ago, BrokenMachine said: Anything could happen. Voters with inclined preference for 'pop' girls might get be divided between Lana, Olivia, Miley and Taylor, decimating their chances to win and increasing the chances for SZA/Janelle/boygenius/Jon to get Ed Sheeran'd from it Yeah, Boygenius is the spoiler people should be looking out for. They have the rock lane clear for themselves. It’s giving Arcade Fire. 1
mellenthin Posted December 4, 2023 Posted December 4, 2023 (edited) I love SOS, but it's a bit bloated. I wouldn't be mad if it won (SZA deserves), but personally I think Lana deserves more. DYKTTATUOB is a masterpiece; both sonically, thematically and lyrically. If Taylor wins, Grammys are over for eternity. Nothing against Taylor, but Midnights... Edited December 4, 2023 by mellenthin 1
ATRL Moderator supaspaz Posted December 4, 2023 ATRL Moderator Posted December 4, 2023 13 minutes ago, Maxxxine said: No but that album being hot garbage might be. I’m sorry we don’t need lyrics talking about “you was balls deep” and “I just killed my ex” being awarded AOTY Sis, have a sense of humor. SZA does. 1
slw84 Posted December 4, 2023 Posted December 4, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, WildAmerican said: i think she's got it, SOS being so genre-bending will appeal to so many different branches. THis. Miley, Taylor, Olivia will votesplit Job Batiste/Lana/Boy genius will votesplit Janelle won't take much away from Sza's votes and she has pop appeal just like Outkast did with their win. Edited December 4, 2023 by slw84
Enrique523 Posted December 4, 2023 Posted December 4, 2023 Serious question for ATRLers: do you guys believe we're still living in the 50s or what? Did you guys already forgot that Lauryn Hill won AOTY back in the day? Black people obviously don't have any problem winning those awards. I don't know if SZA is gonna win or not but her potential loss doesn't automatically have to be about racism. 1 1
gatito Posted December 4, 2023 Posted December 4, 2023 she is the front runner in my book, taylor will get soty which will be great for her as well and lana will go home empty handed hopefully 2
OnlyManInTheWorld Posted December 4, 2023 Posted December 4, 2023 (edited) Been telling y’all since her album release: she’s winning AOTY. And being a POC actually boosts her chances Edited December 4, 2023 by OnlyManInTheWorld 1 1
Kimi Posted December 4, 2023 Posted December 4, 2023 3 hours ago, houdini said: her being a black female artist isn't really a constraint. it's the fact that she is up against Taylor that had a ridiculously successful year. unheard of year actually. and SOS is kind of a "bloated" album. one of the most important aspects of winning a grammy is cohesion. but we'll see. i do think she has a shot to win. Well midnights and ocean Blvd are also bloated and they are her main competition
Pheromosa Posted December 4, 2023 Posted December 4, 2023 Somewhat, tight competition too. I dont see her winning
KatyPrismSpirit Posted December 4, 2023 Posted December 4, 2023 IF she doesn't win AOTY I will be so disappointed tbh
Sannie Posted December 4, 2023 Posted December 4, 2023 (edited) Now that the committees are gone and certain people who have always benefited from them can no longer send the members tickets to their shows and other goodies, I can see SZA having more of a benefit than anyone else. She has a lot going for her and the more diverse voting body may want to see her win. 4 hours ago, Cheers said: It might help. Grammys are all politics so this might be their way of “see? we award POC too!” Kinda like how they use Beyoncé as a token and spectacle and always televise her record breaking wins despite not giving her any wins in major categories. Since they no longer have committees who decide the final winners, this is not possible any more. That is why last year saw everyone practically take something home. There is no longer a "narrative" that has to be followed for ratings; the voters truly decide now. Edited December 4, 2023 by Sannie
ATRL Moderator supaspaz Posted December 4, 2023 ATRL Moderator Posted December 4, 2023 2 hours ago, Sannie said: Since they no longer have committees who decide the final winners, this is not possible any more. That is why last year saw everyone practically take something home. There is no longer a "narrative" that has to be followed for ratings; the voters truly decide now. The committees were for the nominations, not the winners. The winners have always been decided by a popular vote.
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