news Terrorist attack near the Eiffel tower; German tourist stabbed to death

[ScorpiosGroove]

1 hour ago, Gui Blackout said:

There's always a precedent, and yet the police fails to prevent these attacks. 

it’s glaringly obvious somebody wants these attacks to keep happening 

[The7thStranger]

1 hour ago, ontherocks said:

He was also from a non religious family from Iran, probably second or third generation. I assume you are pointing at immigration laws in Europe. 

I would ask you to please re-read my post, as I was pointing at the lax approach to criminal justice in many European states. And now, because the French judicial system obviously made a very bad judgement call, a German citizen is dead. The decision of one state affects the others.

[Hurem]

3 hours ago, Riverbank said:

A man known to French authorities for radical Islamism

You gotta be ******* joking  

 

When will they start giving these nutjobs life sentences?

[Communion]

1 hour ago, bad guy said:

That’s irrelevant. He was on a watch list he apparently had plans that foiled before. With all that information why wasn’t this person thrown in a jail cell where he belongs.

 

Same thing with all these mass shooters in the US that were on FBI watch before their attacks 

For the record, this 2016 article details that he was sentenced to prison for 5 years as a teenager, originally detained and arrested 3 days after his social media activity was discovered:

Quote

Throughout the country, a 19-year-old young man, originally from Neuilly-sur-Seine (Hauts-de-Seine), was indicted on Tuesday for “criminal association in connection with a criminal terrorist enterprise” and then placed in detention provisional.

Previously unnoticed by the intelligence services, this young suspect was spotted very recently while displaying, on social networks, his determination to “take action”. According to our information, investigators from the General Directorate of Internal Security (DGSI) collected information on July 25, citing threats made by this suspect and his desire to commit an attack on French soil.

Quote

With these elements in mind, the Paris anti-terrorism prosecution decided to open a preliminary investigation on July 28. The next day, early in the morning, the police raided the apartment of the suspect, residing in Puteaux (Hauts-de-Seine), and arrested him without difficulty. During the search of the accommodation, two laptops and a telephone used by Armand R. were seized. However, no weapons or explosive devices were discovered.

Quote

Placed in police custody in Levallois-Perret, the suspect immediately indicated that he had “converted to Islam”, before specifying the “nature” of his relationship with the jihadist who had gone to Syria. “He spoke of this man as a model,” confides a senior official. He also admitted to having indicated that he was ready to take action on social networks, while moderating his comments. He made it clear that he didn't really want to do it. » An initial exploitation of its computer equipment allowed the discovery of vast documentation linked to jihad. Armand R. also regularly searched the Internet for information on the most recent attacks committed in France. “It was, moreover, a one-off contact from Larossi Abballa,” continues the same source. The investigations revealed a clear motivation on his part to take the action. However, for the moment, no element of a possible target has been found. »

https://www.leparisien.fr/amp/faits-divers/le-jeune-converti-voulait-passer-a-l-action-04-08-2016-6014345.php

 

From article published today:

Quote

He was sentenced to five years' imprisonment and released in 2020, after four years in prison, said a security source quoted by AFP. He was been placed under judicial supervision and Micas, an administrative system with measures comparable to those of judicial supervision, aimed at preventing acts of terrorism.

Quote

Known for his psychiatric problems and radical Islamism, he underwent psychiatric medical treatment throughout his detention and after his release. "The first few months were encouraging," and he seemed to have "detached himself from religion" after his release, a security source told AFP. But this man with a "very suggestible," "very unstable" personality was once again causing concern since the spring-summer of 2022, according to the same source.

I get these are not conversations people want to have, and blaming it on some outside force is what most of ATRL's right-wing members will do (some of us were on this site back in 2014-2016 when people openly called for Syrian refugees to be killed), but exactly what length of a prison sentence is appropriate for a 19-year-old who was originally arrested for radicalized internet activity yet who himself had never actually committed any violence?

 

At what point can migration (born there!) nor religion (not born to Muslim parents, literally converted to Islam out of free will!) no longer be scapegoated and people forced to actually interrogate what inspires people to want to do (objectively bad, wrong) acts of violence in order to actually, materially find a solution to such?

[Communion]

 

27 minutes ago, Headlock said:

Looks like we found the new goalpost, which is not ~at all~ a dogwhistle: 

30 minutes ago, Take Me Apart said:

It's time to revisit Jus soli citizenship laws

Horrifying. Trumpian. Putin-esque You should be ashamed, @Take Me Apart

Edited December 4, 2023 by Communion

[flower moon]

that one user constantly defending people who've done terrible things in the name of religion

[Headlock]

1 minute ago, flower moon said:

that one user constantly defending people who've done terrible things in the name of religion

This is such lazy and disingenuous framing of @Communion providing the correct context of this situation, as opposed to people immediately jumping to… repealing birth-right citizenship 

[flower moon]

2 minutes ago, Headlock said:

This is such lazy and disingenuous framing of @Communion providing the correct context of this situation, as opposed to people immediately jumping to… repealing birth-right citizenship 

a person is dead and they are in here rushing to defend the attacker with whataboutisms as usual. its a trend

[Headlock]

Just now, flower moon said:

a person is dead and they are in here rushing to defend the attacker with whataboutisms as usual. its a trend

Stating the attacker was a native French citizen who was not from a Muslim family but converted himself are not whataboutisms, they are objective facts about the situation which directly contradict people’s assumptions about the context of this situation. They literally condemned the violence of what happened while combating the gut-reaction anti-immigration/anti-Muslim posts already propagating in this thread. Because incidents like this, without context, lead to reactionary swings to far-right populist politics that ultimately harm the majority of citizens who have nothing to do with such violence.

[Communion]

6 minutes ago, flower moon said:

a person is dead and they are in here rushing to defend the attacker with whataboutisms as usual. its a trend

That's not what that word means. I'm sure there are a plethora of other online platforms for you to use if the only reason you seek out news involving Islamic terrorism is not to understand what happened and why (in order to then prevent such needless violence from repeating), but to fulfill some kind of one-sided, psychological resentment to Muslims at large.

 

Have you tried Truth Social? Do you think you'll find more people there who agree the view that the ethnically French should be the only ones ever allowed to be citizens of France?

Edited December 4, 2023 by Communion

[flower moon]

26 minutes ago, Headlock said:

Stating the attacker was a native French citizen who was not from a Muslim family but converted himself are not whataboutisms, they are objective facts about the situation which directly contradict people’s assumptions about the context of this situation. They literally condemned the violence of what happened while combating the gut-reaction anti-immigration/anti-Muslim posts already propagating in this thread. Because incidents like this, without context, lead to reactionary swings to far-right populist politics that ultimately harm the majority of citizens who have nothing to do with such violence.

a religion caused a person to act this way. communion is always rushing to point out that its never their fault, in one way or another. thats it.
 

25 minutes ago, Communion said:

That's not what that word means. I'm sure there are a plethora of other online platforms for you to use if the only reason you seek out news involving Islamic terrorism is not to understand what happened and why (in order to then prevent such needless violence from repeating), but to fulfill some kind of one-sided, psychological resentment to Muslims at large.

 

Have you tried Truth Social? Do you think you'll find more people there who agree the view that the ethnically French should be the only ones ever allowed to be citizens of France?

i dont discuss this with anyone tbh! as an immigrant myself i have no problem immigrants.. just religion that is and has been for so long the cause of atrocities the world over

people should definitely have distrust and resentment toward religions.

Edited December 4, 2023 by flower moon

[Aethereal]

RIP to the victim, this is extremely heartbreaking. 

[Headlock]

25 minutes ago, flower moon said:

a religion caused a person to act this way. communion is always rushing to point out that its never their fault, in one way or another. thats it.

You have very poor reading comprehension, which is to say I am taking your words at face value and not assuming you are being deliberately obtuse.

[Communion]

14 minutes ago, flower moon said:

people should definitely have distrust and resentment toward religions.

I am literally an atheist. If you walk away from my posts thinking they're a defense of religion, your own perspective is one distorted by personal resentments to religion. 

 

My own personal gripes with religion don't come before understanding that people turn to religion for specific reasons and helping people feel they don't need an organized religious system for those problems requires offering them a viable alternative.

 

You've imagined some disagreement in your own head because you and I both get to here:

46 minutes ago, flower moon said:

a religion caused a person to act this way

yet then - for some reason - you see defense when leftists like myself point out how other users' calls for "DEPORTATION!" or "JUST GET RID OF IT SOMEHOW!!" are not viable solutions that will actually ever improve people's material conditions nor make people safer from religious extremism. 

 

For all the talk of "gays defend a religion who wants to kill them!!," there's an irony to see users then on the side of people calling for the end to birthright citizenship and essentially turning every European country into a pure ethnostate while themselves claiming not to have problem with immigration or being an immigrant themselves. 

[KMO]

RIP to the victims and those who witnessed 

[Zaram]

8 hours ago, flower moon said:

a religion caused a person to act this way. communion is always rushing to point out that its never their fault, in one way or another. thats it.
 

i dont discuss this with anyone tbh! as an immigrant myself i have no problem immigrants.. just religion that is and has been for so long the cause of atrocities the world over

people should definitely have distrust and resentment toward religions.

It's the best to just ignore that user. He has always been defending the terrorism attacks like these one way or another - a long time before the palestina vs Israel conflict escalated even more.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Zaram

[flower moon]

5 minutes ago, Communion said:

I am literally an atheist. If you walk away from my posts thinking they're a defense of religion, your own perspective is one distorted by personal resentments to religion. 

 

My own personal gripes with religion don't come before understanding that people turn to religion for specific reasons and helping people feel they don't need an organized religious system for those problems requires offering them a viable alternative.

 

You've imagined some disagreement in your own head because you and I both get to here:

yet then - for some reason - you see defense when leftists like myself point out how other users' calls for "DEPORTATION!" or "JUST GET RID OF IT SOMEHOW!!" are not viable solutions that will actually ever improve people's material conditions nor make people safer from religious extremism. 

 

For all the talk of "gays defend a religion who wants to kill them!!," there's an irony to see users then on the side of people calling for the end to birthright citizenship and essentially turning every European country into a pure ethnostate while themselves claiming not to have problem with immigration or being an immigrant themselves. 

you were literally the one to bring immigrants into the discussion while others were condemning the man and his religion.
not a word of condemnation for either from you in that first post tho! but how interesting that you wanted to direct the conversation and engineer this immigrant argument in here.

my comment on defense was made of the basis of threads like this, that you enter with the same finger pointing tactics everytime.
you come across as someone that sympathises with the worst people/attackers.
 

Spoiler

"to see users then on the side of people calling for the end to birthright citizenship and essentially turning every European country into a pure ethnostate"

speaking of imagining things...
 

[flower moon]

1 minute ago, Zaram said:

It's the best to just ignore that user. He has always been defending the terrorism attacks like these one way or another - a long time before the palestina vs Israel conflict escalated even more.

you're right, and i normally do

[Wolf Alice]

2 hours ago, Communion said:

For the record, this 2016 article details that he was sentenced to prison for 5 years as a teenager, originally detained and arrested 3 days after his social media activity was discovered:

https://www.leparisien.fr/amp/faits-divers/le-jeune-converti-voulait-passer-a-l-action-04-08-2016-6014345.php

 

From article published today:

I get these are not conversations people want to have, and blaming it on some outside force is what most of ATRL's right-wing members will do (some of us were on this site back in 2014-2016 when people openly called for Syrian refugees to be killed), but exactly what length of a prison sentence is appropriate for a 19-year-old who was originally arrested for radicalized internet activity yet who himself had never actually committed any violence?

 

At what point can migration (born there!) nor religion (not born to Muslim parents, literally converted to Islam out of free will!) no longer be scapegoated and people forced to actually interrogate what inspires people to want to do (objectively bad, wrong) acts of violence in order to actually, materially find a solution to such?

Is this situation much different from white terrorists getting radicalised on 4chan and shooting up schools, synagogues and mosques in the US? No but that gets excused down to external influence and mental health but as soon as it's someone non white, it's a blood thirsty group of people who only want violence. 

 

My country was terrorised for hundred of years by Christian colonizers and did more damage than any muslim invaders did. And when they left they made sure to leave it as a highly destabilised region by partitioning into two countries divided by religion. And to this day, we see the repercussions where my so called "religion of peace" hindu brethren (I'm one myself) terrorize and kill muslims on the daily because of the constant dehumanization that's done to them not only within my country but also across the world. And you'd think being gay would make some understand how it feels being subjected to such dehumanization and "other" treatment but alas this forum is proof that a lot of people lack basic empathy and willingness to understand specially if you come from a privileged position in the society.

[Communion]

9 minutes ago, flower moon said:

you were literally the one to bring immigrants into the discussion

This is literally on the 1st page of this section before mods had to close it for devolving into the - typical - ATRL racism:

 

If the vast majority of users with an emotional investment in discussing the problems of Islam weren't doing so in a way that revealed them to be white supremacists - to the point of needed moderator invention - then threads about religious extremism wouldn't be met with the level of skepticism that they are.

 

Also:

 

15 minutes ago, flower moon said:

not a word of condemnation

5 hours ago, Communion said:

Maybe another policy should be given a try to avoid this kind of needless violence.

Still waiting for some kind of reaction to a member calling for the abolishment of birthright citizenship on Page 1! 

[FOCK]

4 hours ago, SlowGinFizzzz said:

A phobia is an irrational fear though. I don't think being afraid of the extreme ideology that Islam is at its core is irrational. 

There’s nothing in the religion that calls for stabbing random people on the street. Even in its most fundamental form, it’s both a sin and a crime.
 

Simply shouting a religious term doesn’t = religiously motivated. 
 

This man was known to authorities as a risk & had a history of mental instability. The only thing that sets this apart from how any other incident of this nature would be characterised, is how the man identified religiously? What relevance does that bare? 
 

Rip to the victim, wishing a speedy recovery & justice for those affected. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by FOCK
What tf is an “Islamist knife” fjkfvjvjcjvk

[bleuwaffle]

Why would you ever let a person with a record of terrorism attempts out of jail? Anyone who wants to take human life does not deserve to walk free.

Edited December 4, 2023 by bleuwaffle

[Weld_E]

Him being a convert actually proves that the problem is inherently the religion itself and its teachings, so I don’t understand what point some of you are trying to prove…

[Riverbank]

28 minutes ago, FOCK said:

Simply shouting a religious term doesn’t = religiously motivated. 

What about this?

 

Quote

 

Police and security sources confirmed that the attacker had posted a video claiming responsibility to social media at the moment of the attack, speaking about "current events, the government, the murder of innocent Muslims".

 

In the nearly two-minute video, the attacker declared his support for the Islamic State (IS) group and pledged allegiance to its current leader Abu Hafs, reports FRANCE 24's terrorism expert Wassim Nasr. The attacker claimed he acted “to avenge Muslims” and hailed the accomplishments of IS members. 

 

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231203-attacker-stabs-german-tourist-to-death-in-paris

[FOCK]

20 minutes ago, Riverbank said:

What about this?

 

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231203-attacker-stabs-german-tourist-to-death-in-paris

A deranged individual claiming support for a terror organisation or stating he’s acting on its behalf, doesn’t mean it’s a “religious” act. 
 

IS is ISIL, who’s biggest victims are Muslims themselves. And whose main adversaries have been Muslim groups fighting them off.
 

There are not billions of Muslims stabbing random people in the streets, and I’ve explained that it’s antithetical to their belief system. 
 

So again, what makes this “religious”, other than a lunatic claiming it is?

Edited December 4, 2023 by FOCK