base talk More important for queer history - Vogue vs. Born this way vs. You need to calm down?

[GlamSlam]

The reaching from that one person is hilarious. Firstly, Madonna was never sued, secondly she took two of the dancers who pioneered "Voguing" from the ballroom scene and gave them a platform to shine on a world-wide tour of the biggest female artist around. Thirdly, the same person talking about "Cultural appropriation" when their fave was walking around like this is laughable...

 

 

 

The most important song in queer history will always be Vogue. End of discussion.

Edited December 2, 2023 by GlamSlam

[Funnyfatty]

For me it’s Born This Way but that is just my opinion. 
 

it was a shock for me to hear someone using the word “gay” in a place i lived in. Everyone was aware of who Gaga was but being able to talk about the LGBT community was weird. Was a shock and someone could even attack you physically for “talking disgusting like that” . When Gagz came up with “no matter gay straight or bi lesbian transgender life” i was in pure shock. We didn’t have much internet also so i was literally ignorant back then

 

My family didn’t really understand English lyrics so i could listen to it but they found her very demonic because of lots of things .

 

i didnt experience Vogue so idk but i can say that no one sane has the right to belittle the impact Madonna had on us. Especially the loud gays should shut up about Madonna more. If she or fearless artist like her didn’t exist lots of things could be worse for the LGBT community. I don’t know many places in this world where its a safe place to be gay so.

[Raptus]

24 people voted fot YNTCD and not one of them said why

 

[Jay07]

8 hours ago, perfillusion said:

Not a lecture on popstars and gay rights from a Britney Spears stan whose only contribution to the fight has been saying "gays are somewhat girls" and that's IT. And not a Britney Spears stan talking about not upsetting conservative fans when she sat there chewing her gum and told Americans "we need to support Bush" during his most heinous war crimes just so her career wouldn't suffer. Anyway Vogue is the best song on the list but also the most problematic and Madonna is hugely disingenuous.

So once again you have zero actual arguments so you resort to off topic trolling and flamebait. Reported. 

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Jay07

[Phaunzie]

Deep in Vogue obviously, the first song to bring Voguing into the mainstream, eight months before Vogue whilst topping the Billboard Dance Charts. Some say it inspires the birth of Vogue (the Song)

 

 

However Vogue comes in a far second.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Phaunzie

[PopKills]

From what I saw in POSE Vogue was like an EVENT for queers so I choose that one.

 

Also YNTCD? 

[GlamSlam]

2 hours ago, Phaunzie said:

Deep in Vogue obviously, the first song to bring Voguing into the mainstream, eight months before Vogue whilst topping the Billboard Dance Charts. Some say it inspires the birth of Vogue (the Song)

 

 

However Vogue comes in a far second.

and yet it was Madonna's input and star quality that turned hers into a megahit.

 

Deep In Vogue did absolutely NOTHING on the main charts.

Edited December 2, 2023 by GlamSlam

[thequeenofpopmadonna]

Vogue all the way. It beats sht out of it.

I'm not reductive 

[Phaunzie]

4 minutes ago, GlamSlam said:

Produced by the same person who produced Vogue, and yet it was Madonna's input and star quality that turned it into a megahit.

 

Deep In Vogue did absolutely NOTHING on the charts.

Quote

The single and video from the album, “Deep in Vogue,” was the first ever song about voguing. It featured voguing icon Willi Ninja rapping and later dancing in its video. The single became a number one dance hit that month and spent nine weeks on the Billboard charts.

How Madonna, Paris Is Burning, RuPaul And More Have Depicted Ballroom | Them

Quote

The single was McLaren's fourth entry on the Billboard Dance Play chart and his only number one.^[5] "Deep in Vogue" was number one on that chart for one week in July 1989.^[5] The single additionally charted at #83^[6] in the UK, and #107 in Australia

Deep in Vogue - Wikipedia

 

I love a nine week #1 hit that did nothing on the Billboard charts.

 

 

[GlamSlam]

1 minute ago, Phaunzie said:

I love a nine week #1 hit that did nothing on the Billboard charts.

On the US Dance Club Songs (Billboard)^,

 

^{Which means very little and completely different to the actual hot 100 (main singles chart)}

[Alongoria13]

Screaming at the arguments of some little monsters in here, the confidence  the lack of self awareness

[Kristie Kuwa]

Ill be nice:

Adding YNTCD to that convo is a really bold choice 

[Phaunzie]

1 hour ago, GlamSlam said:

On the US Dance Club Songs (Billboard)^,

 

^{Which means very little and completely different to the actual hot 100 (main singles chart)}

ok, So Deep In Vogue, the first song that brought Voguing to MAINSTREAM, was not impactful? A literal cult classic.

 

Is Vogue (the song) better representation of Ballroom culture and Voguing than Deep In Vogue?

 

[Raptus]

12 minutes ago, Phaunzie said:

ok, So Deep In Vogue, the first song that brought Voguing to MAINSTREAM, was not impactful? A literal cult classic.

Gurl, the video you posted has 300k views. Where's the impact?

 

[GlamSlam]

1 hour ago, Phaunzie said:

ok, So Deep In Vogue, the first song that brought Voguing to MAINSTREAM, was not impactful? A literal cult classic.

 

Is Vogue (the song) better representation of Ballroom culture and Voguing than Deep In Vogue?

 

It didn't become known until many years after Vogue was released, so It's quite obvious which is more impactful since DIV didn't do anything on the charts. Let's be honest, nobody thinks of Malcolm Mclaren when they see / hear the word Vogue, they think of Madonna or the fashion magazine. The only reason many are aware of DIV is because of the loud mouthed Madonna detractors using anything they can to downplay her talent and artistry.

Edited December 2, 2023 by GlamSlam

[Alexz]

Vogue.

[Pendulum]

Pocelain Black's Mannequin Factory, which is lyrically similar to BTW, would have been THEE queer bop had it been released. RedOne was literally unstoppable. 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Pendulum

[Mr. Stratus]

21 hours ago, Alongoria13 said:

Screaming at the arguments of some little monsters in here, the confidence  the lack of self awareness

Madonna stans have always been delusional haters. Born This Way is unapologetically a #1 BBH100 self love anthem. It addresses homosexuality and religion in an explicit way. Madonna touched upon the surfaces. In the real world, Born This Way is THE pride anthem. It’s the one that gets the biggest recurrent boosts, the one people go to when you say pride.
But in a forum infested on people who original fave or either Britney or Madonna, we don’t expect people to understand that 

[Erreur2 La Nature]

Who are the 2010 not voting for Vogue ? 

[Hurem]

Vogue and Born This Way were released 20 years apart, and both had a significant impact on the community in different eras. Vogue was one of the first mainstream songs to celebrate ballroom culture, while Born This Way was explicit in its lyrics, standing out from other 'you're perfect the way you are!!' type of songs. Both songs deserve recognition for their impact.

 

If I had to choose one, it would have to be Vogue, simply because I'm not sure if Born This Way would exist if Madonna hadn't paved the way 20 years earlier. This is not to diminish Gaga's activism either.

[CoolNebraskaGuy]

On 12/1/2023 at 7:48 AM, Raptus said:

and:

You're Black, white, beige, chola descent
You're Lebanese, you're Orient

 

I love BTW and what it means for many LGBTQ+ folks but every time I hear that lyric I get the ick

 

[She-Rah]

On 11/30/2023 at 5:21 PM, kataraqueen said:

BTW has a bit of a funny message. I'm not a freak lmao. And she did this after the height of metrosexualism xd

 

Vogue takes queer culture, which was actually seen as something horrible and disease ridden, and appreciated it, and made it look like something cool

 

Madonna introduced her audience to queer people. Lady Gaga alienated her audience for queer people.

^

[MadMax12]

Vogue was timeless when it was released and impacted future generations. It was a perfect balance of pop and a political statement. BTW was more ‘in your face’ with its statements and lyrics, and felt like a nod to the 80’s rather than progression. It was softer produced compared to her debut so didn’t have the same impact 

[loveisdead9582]

Vogue or BTW. It’s kind of a tossup. Vogue did do a lot to bring the underground gay scene to mainstream popularity. BTW specifically referenced the gay community in a message of acceptance by one of the most prominent artists at the time when gay marriage still wasn’t recognized and Don’t ask don’t tell hadn’t been repealed yet

[tjspy]

I didn't experience Vogue, but I believe it was huge and the first (and maybe bigger) step on the way.

 

I experienced BTW and I think it was an important push tho. I felt like for the first time not-being-homophobic had became the norm after it. Also, the amount of coming outs around that era was something. So, I'd say BTW has to be something.

 

YNTCD was just another song in the late 2010s that tried to earn some pink money, and started the phase were more conservatives might be getting annoyed by the topic, while cementing, (I can't take that out), the growing freedom of the community. I think in a way it gave us more confidence, while BTW mostly reduced our fears. But YNTCD didn't do that alone, was the whole pop culture moment we're living in, unlike Vogue or BTW.