celeb news Selena Gomez attends Zionist wedding party where Israel flag is celebrated

[Harrier]

1 hour ago, Communion said:

I feel like people would be more than willing to call out brazen nationalism if presented with Americans from Texas dancing under the American flag during their wedding - and the oddness of such - and I think people should interrogate just why they don't feel as compelled to call out Israeli nationalism in that greater context. 

 

Of course you can't imply anything more than an uncomfortable patriotism, but to pretend this kind of unsophisticated nationalism would not be called out or dunked on elsewhere is odd. 

 

Making your nationality part of your wedding isn't nefarious but it is weird and unusual. Even with knowing the Israeli flag has a religious symbol on it, the further blurring of national identity and religious identity makes such more curious, not less. 

I hear your point and as someone who has never flown my country's flag I do think its cringe nationalism, but this thread was made and contains people accusing Selena Gomez of being a zionist or supporting zionism because she attended a wedding where somebody flew a flag of a country of 9 million people. 

 

To help you understand why this is messy, as I know it can be difficult to see clearly past your visceral hatred of anything Western, consider that she theoretically might attend an Iranian wedding where the Iranian flag was thrown around. Many would likely accuse her of being a terrorist supporter, or a supporter of Iran's brutal theoracy, or a Hamas supporter. Would this be fair? Or would you see it as an huge jump that is reflective of strong biased feeling against Muslims or Iranians?

 

That's why people are calling antisemitism in this thread, and I somewhat agree with them. Hyperfocusing on a random Jewish wedding and using it to cancel some star is just obsessed weirdo behaviour

[Communion]

11 minutes ago, Harrier said:

I hear your point and as someone who has never flown my country's flag I do think its cringe nationalism, but this thread was made and contains people -

 

1 hour ago, Communion said:

The actual criticisms one could find [at this thread being made] being that 1) is the person's wedding who Selena knows even famous? If it's a random person, it's low-stakes and a bit punching down to dunk on and 2) because it's not Selena herself, it's hard to really position some kind of double standard of how such brazen patriotism would be deemed inappropriate or questionable if done by someone who downplayed Palestinian suffering.

 

It's not hard to imagine someone like the Hadid sisters or Dua Lipa attending a traditional Palestinian wedding featuring a Palestinian flag and typical old media figures going "HADID SISTERS ATTEND JIHAD WEDDING! SEXY SUPERMODEL DOESN'T KNOW SHE WOULD BE STONED FOR HER SEXY OUTFIT IN GAZA!!!". 

I'm not invested in the guy who scammed thousands of influencers with a fake spons-content PR trip posting on his socials to his ~80k followers that he's awoken to the beauty of Zionism or whatever. Anyone who says they're a proud Zionist is lame but I'm more concerned that Joe Biden says this than a guy appearing on an E! docuseries!

 

 

I'm sure he and Selena had plenty of thoughtful discussions on modern day spirituality when attending Hillsong! *nervous laughter*

Edited November 28, 2023 by Communion

[Harrier]

8 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

I'm not invested in the guy who scammed thousands of influencers with a fake spons-content PR trip posting on his socials to his ~80k followers that he's awoken to the beauty of Zionism or whatever. Anyone who says they're a proud Zionist is lame but I'm more concerned that Joe Biden says this than a guy appearing on an E! docuseries!

 

 

 

I'm sure he and Selena had plenty of thoughtful discussions on modern day spirituality when attending Hillsong! *nervous laughter*

My point was to argue in favour of people who are calling antisemitism - your parallel with the Hadid sisters is a good one, and represents the same as my Iranian parallell. I saw you said it might be punching down and I'm glad you see that - but I would go further.

 

Some users (though not yourself) are flirting with the beginnings of an antisemtic worldview and have been for some time, and I think it's a good idea to be aware of that.

[Communion]

Just now, Harrier said:

My point was to argue in favour of people who are calling antisemitism

You're trying to make arguments that I, myself, have already made if you would read more than a page before quoting.

 

I'm showing you that I say there's actual arguments one could make about why the thread was needless or an over-correction; unfortunately, for most of ATRL's biggest Zionists, most ethno-supremacist posters have failed to actually make any of these worthwhile criticisms.

 

Instead of "Samuel Krost is a nobody ex-boyfriend marrying an even less famous person, their wedding isn't noteworthy", we get pages of "AND WHAT IS WRONG WITH BEING A ZIONIST? PALESTINE MOSLEMS CAN'T JUST FORCE THEIR JIHADIST RELIGION ONTO THE NATIVES OF JUDEA!!". lol!

 

A quick search on Twitter shows Selena fans complaining about Selena being friends with Samuel at some point in 2021 because he was posting about Zionism, though I myself can't find anything about Israel on "@SamuelKrost" on IG. So again, this is low-stakes and not something I would spend 8 pages on, but I'm also not Palestinian, and thus won't be tone-deaf enough to try and police Palestinians annoyed or side-eyeing a celebrity privileged enough to have associates regardless of politics.

 

You fail to see that the double standard I gave highlights why Selena or any celeb would look questionable dancing under a huge Israeli flag, because the mistreatment of Palestinians within the West is an undeniable fact and systemic in function, explicitly to the benefit of Israel and Zionists. Palestinians have to be demonized in order to make the Zionist lie that Israel's existence is justified morally sound.

 

I have no sympathy for American Zionists whose political goals sees American politicians calling for the flattening of all of Palestine into "a parking lot":

 

 

[shelven]

This thread is very emblematic of an increasing discomfort I've been feeling about the hyper-online branch of the left (as someone who aligns with basically all of their views and policy ideas, including on Palestine/Israel): this running idea that situations can't have nuance, and that acknowledging the nuance is equivalent to secretly supporting the "wrong side" and essentially being no better than the people firmly on the far-right of the issue.

 

As someone who's been surrounded by Jewish communities that span basically the full range of the political spectrum throughout my life, "the Israeli flag is nothing more than a political symbol that expresses support for the Zionist eradication of the Palestinian people" is just... objectively incorrect. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable because it makes this situation murkier. But it's just an objectively incorrect statement. Many (not all) Jewish communities view the Israeli flag as a general symbol of Judaism that doesn't really have much to do with the political decisions that a specific country is making. Many Jewish people who don't even pay attention to what's going on in Israel associate the Israeli flag with positive feelings of cultural unity and identity. The most dominant element of the flag is the Magen David star, which predates the flag by literally thousands of years, and is worn by Jewish people across the political spectrum as a symbol of Judaism. If online discourse turns into targeting and shunning anyone who is remotely associated with an Israeli flag, that really does begin to cross the line into general anti-Semitism because it starts to equate all Jewish people who might have a positive feeling about the flag as a larger Jewish symbol with Zionists who want to see Palestine and Palestinians destroyed.

 

Now, we could have an entirely separate conversation about whether the Israeli flag should be embraced by the Jewish community at large (as a Jewish person, it's personally something I'm uncomfortable with), but that theoretical conversation wouldn't change the current practical fact that it is. We can't erase the current nuances of the Jewish culture by willing them away.

 

On a related point (and this is one I made in a post a few days after October 7), I think a lot of people continue to not truly understand how much of Western Zionism is rooted in ignorance and misinformation as opposed to direct bigotry and hostility. Of course, there is absolutely a substantial subset of Israel supporters who are hardcore Zionists, hold deeply racist beliefs towards Palestinians, and see the existence of an apartheid-esque ethnostate as a positive end goal. But there's an entire other subset of Israel supporters (and one I think is probably larger than the hardcore Zionist subset) who support Israel because they've only ever been told about the "good parts" of Israel (i.e., that it was a safe haven for Jews after the Holocaust) and have essentially been brainwashed by very powerful Zionist advocacy groups over their lives to either completely ignore the bad parts or to believe that it's all made up or exaggerated. That continues to be the discomfort I have with how anyone who says something good about Israel is immediately witch-hunted - you can't really oppose something if you don't know it's bad, and the online left often seems more interested in berating people it views as wrong instead of making an effort to understand why they may be wrong and try to get them to see the correct side. Which I find a little ironic because a lot of those same people on the online left have frequently taken the view that Trump supporters are just victims of poor economic circumstances and being ignored/belittled by the Democrats, and that they maybe wouldn't love Trump so much if the Democrats offered better policies that actually speak to them. If you try to view pro-Israel Jewish people through that same lens, their perspective might start to make more sense.

 

Last thing I'll say for now: I do think a lot of people on here and in the larger discourse on this issue need to be a bit more reflective about what crosses the line from validly asserting that anti-Zionism /=/ anti-Semitism and into silencing more reasonable Jewish voices. If someone comes in here and says "you're all just anti-Semitic if you hate Israel", then they absolutely deserve to be reminded that opposing the Zionist ideology and the Israeli government is not anti-Semitic. But if someone comes in here and says "as a Jewish person, it's making me uncomfortable that the nuances of the Jewish community's connection with Israel are being waved off and this is starting to feel like a witch hunt against the larger Jewish community", that shouldn't be met with accusations that they're weaponizing cries of anti-Semitism and they're secretly far right neo-Nazis. The left is for the most part very good at recognizing that the group at the centre of an issue is usually the one that's best-equipped to decide if something counts as bigotry towards that group, but it seems like Jewish voices are often not given any opportunity to express what they feel is creeping into anti-Semitism. Again, I realize this is complicated because there are many Zionists who falsely try to paint all criticism of Israel as inherently anti-Semitic, but I think the left also has some responsibility to make a better effort to try to discern between which Jewish commenters fall into that category vs. which Jewish commenters deserve the space to express their views about anti-Semitism because they have a better understanding of the nuances of the Jewish community than a non-Jewish person would.

[Freakshowvato]

What a dumb wedding celebration… why get the Israeli flag into this???? During this climate and when they are continually murdering children??????
 

anyway she shouldve done her research prior to attending. Donating her Rare beauty profits to pro-Zionist organizations and now this… she needs to do actual research when she takes accountability or stop pretending she cares entirely. 

[Blue.]

How is this thread still open with the stuff some members said in it  

 

Seems like it is nAziTRL now.

[DoubleRainbow!]

Ok, so if you have israeli friends you cut them of your life?

[SmittenCake]

1 minute ago, DoubleRainbow! said:

Ok, so if you have israeli friends you cut them of your life?

if they're Zionists, then yes 

[chris1991]

9 hours ago, houdini said:

The Israeli flag is a political statement and symbol of opression and apartheid. 

Yeah…if we weren’t in today’s conflict I’d let it slide but throwing that flag around rn is insane!

 

Also, they hang around lots of Arabs, Fai and his sisters…the flag is just on off statement rn.

[Yoko]

1 hour ago, DeadInside said:

So what? I've attended weddings with the confederate flag, does that make me a bad person? 

 oh em gee

[Karla Cabello]

1 hour ago, DeadInside said:

So what? I've attended weddings with the confederate flag, does that make me a bad person? 

well yes

[rihannafan]

3 hours ago, theflying said:

By the way, hello!

 

American Liberal Jew here. Proud Zionist as well.

 

Zionism is the belief in a Jewish homeland. That’s it. Zionism is not inherently at the expense of anyone, in the same way that feminism’s advocacy not “against men”.

 

 

Now why are you in here lying so blatantly?

[feelingsonfire]

This thread still being open meanwhile this whole thing is a set up. The situation in the op never happened and Selena only attended the ceremony where they got married then left to the hotel where fans met her at 8 pm, but I guess making it a stan war and piant someone you hate in a bad light is more important. Never change atrl, the moderators are disgusting for keeping it open after seeing so many insane posts making fun of her looks.

[SmittenCake]

32 minutes ago, feelingsonfire said:

This thread still being open meanwhile this whole thing is a set up. The situation in the op never happened and Selena only attended the ceremony where they got married then left to the hotel where fans met her at 8 pm, but I guess making it a stan war and piant someone you hate in a bad light is more important. Never change atrl, the moderators are disgusting for keeping it open after seeing so many insane posts making fun of her looks.

I browsed his profile, clicked a few things, and then got to here:

 

 

 

 

the comment about a criminal in his 30s has me weak

 

making fun of her for having lupus is so disgusting and sick 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by SmittenCake

[Aethereal]

It was a terrible coincidence considering her behavior in Instagram few weeks ago but how was she supposed to know someone will fly the Israeli flag? 

[MoonGoodandHappy]

2 hours ago, SmittenCake said:

if they're Zionists, then yes 

You're disgusting for that.  But anyways, look at your avi. It's not even a surprise. Disgusting how you're so hateful against Israel but say nothing about Hamas (a terrorist organization).

Edited November 28, 2023 by MoonGoodandHappy

[babyforlife]

welp

I always defended her regardong her music, but Im so disappointed with this

let me block her ass on Spotify..

[Wolf Alice]

12 minutes ago, MoonGoodandHappy said:

You're disgusting for that.  But anyways, look at your avi. It's not even a surprise. Disgusting how you're so hateful against Israel but say nothing about Hamas (a terrorist organization).

Why is it always "What about Hamas???" for you lot? It's crazy that we can't even rightly criticise Zionism and the Israeli government without explicitly condemning Hamas. What Hamas did was wrong but what Israel is doing is way way way way worse like it's not even remotely comparable. 

[Elusive Chanteuse]

Some of the posts in this thread are so gross, not surprising yet again though. Mods in agreement naturally.

 

[getback]

terminally online people think she would skip the wedding of her business partner due to fear of hate comments on the internet - which she's no stranger of  

you may expect that from like Taylor Swift but Selena doesn't give a ****

[nostalgic]

5 hours ago, DeadInside said:

So what? I've attended weddings with the confederate flag, does that make me a bad person? 

The 1-2 punch combo of this comment and your avi 

[SmittenCake]

1 hour ago, MoonGoodandHappy said:

You're disgusting for that.  But anyways, look at your avi. It's not even a surprise. Disgusting how you're so hateful against Israel but say nothing about Hamas (a terrorist organization).

 

-

 

I said I wouldn't be friends with them if they were a Zionist. Being a Jew doesn't mean you are assigned to having zionists views. The same way being white doesn't mean you subscribe to white supremacy...the hell? 

 

also, I'm pretty sure Dua Lipa has done and presented herself more raunchy than the Queen in my avi; you're sounding like a triggered boomer. 

 

How about you condemn the terrorist Israeli government? 

 

 

 

 

edit: it just hit me that you are so disturbed by my avi because its a feminine male who's just walking back and forth  he's not doing anything vulgar

 

oh well, continue to fume

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by SmittenCake

[Communion]

2 hours ago, MoonGoodandHappy said:

but say nothing about Hamas

Actors are literally fired from their agencies or current projects for calling Israel an apartheid state. Not sure you're gonna see any celebrity partying in Qatar with Hamas leadership!

[bjorn]

Some comments in here are not it. This topic should be banned on this site