news Germany considers tying citizenship to recognition of Israel, anti-Zionism = sedition

[rihannafan]

Communion always slaying these threads. Love that for them

[SmittenCake]

7 hours ago, ontherocks said:

Another Ukraine supporter being pro Isreal?  

[TasteOfYourLips]

Their country, their rules but it makes me laugh that in their overall awful migration policy this is the hill they are willing to die on

[stevyy]

On 11/19/2023 at 4:38 PM, LookinAssHittas said:

There is no way this can be legal? 
 

I really don’t know what to say at this point. It’s quite insane how Israel has the Western world stuck in a trance. It genuinely feels like Israel and the West are partaking in a puppet show, and the Israelis are the puppet masters. Death to all of them.

Germany has the biggest moral and historic obligation to secure a Jewish State. I am glad my country is enforcing it. 

[stevyy]

On 11/19/2023 at 8:14 PM, Aristotle said:

It's a stupid law anyway, migrants will just lie and pretend to be pro-Israel even if they are not, unless they try to search you deeply.

 

It's not stupid. Germany is a popular migration destination, especially for people from the Islamic world. 

 

Openly chanting for a 2nd Holocaust is forbidden in Germany and I am so glad that it is. People who engage in antisemitism in Germany will face consequences, no matter if they are natives or migrants. We simply do not want that. It's stupid. Anti-semitism is stupid. 

 

However, criticizing Israel's policies is welcome (to a certain degree). It needs to be worded very delicately. 

[Eat The Acid]

1939 Germany: Let’s murder all Jews. 
2023 Germany: Let’s make it up to the Jews by helping Israel murder all Palestinians. 
 

The lack of logic is terrifying. Generational and political trauma has completely stunted their growth on how they can serve ethnic understanding outside of white European. It’s clear the topic causes huge panic and embarrassment and extreme reactions are the result. 
 

As stated - this is an oppositional bill but it’s very much the narrative currently in Germany. Let’s hope it doesn’t pass and we can see some more comprehensive planning and response re: this genocide in Palestine. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Eat The Acid

[Eat The Acid]

1 hour ago, stevyy said:

Germany has the biggest moral and historic obligation to secure a Jewish State. I am glad my country is enforcing it. 

It also has the biggest moral and historic obligation to prevent future genocides since it partook in one of the most disgusting and horrifying genocides in the history of this world. 

[stevyy]

1 hour ago, Eat The Acid said:

It also has the biggest moral and historic obligation to prevent future genocides since it partook in one of the most disgusting and horrifying genocides in the history of this world. 

That's true. 

 

But as you were saying... it is still the #1 objective to secure a Jewish state. 

 

I hope we can still all agree that the industrial murder of 6 million Jews is still the biggest downfall of humanity. It was not just aNoTHeR genocide. 

[Eat The Acid]

7 hours ago, stevyy said:

That's true. 

 

But as you were saying... it is still the #1 objective to secure a Jewish state. 

 

I hope we can still all agree that the industrial murder of 6 million Jews is still the biggest downfall of humanity. It was not just aNoTHeR genocide. 

The implication that the Palestinian genocide is just aNoTHeR genocide is disgusting. Wtf…. 
 

Also if Germanys first priority is to secure an ethno state based on the principals of Nazi Germany - the country is truly sick and dysfunctional at its core. 

[What_A_Mess]

What if Germany gives a part of it’s Land to make a Jewish state? Or what about the US? Somewhere in Alaska maybe?

[BlazingLovatic]

It's like they are trying so hard to not go back to their old ways, that they are actually running towards it 

[Cloudy]

That sounds awful, some of these countries should really reflect on their positions in this whole mess. Glad Spain's president at least publicly condemned Israel's atrocities and managed to bring all the spanish palestinians to the country swiftly and save. And mind you Spain grants the nationality to sephardic jews from Israel so you can't say anti-semitism and all that non-sense Zionists spew.

[Communion]

13 hours ago, stevyy said:

It's not stupid. Germany is a popular migration destination, especially for people from the Islamic world. 

 

Openly chanting for a 2nd Holocaust is forbidden in Germany and I am so glad that it is. People who engage in antisemitism in Germany will face consequences, no matter if they are natives or migrants. We simply do not want that. It's stupid. Anti-semitism is stupid. 

 

However, criticizing Israel's policies is welcome (to a certain degree). It needs to be worded very delicately. 

I get sensitivity to comparisons *with regards to the Holocaust*. There's often no good way to contrast the Holocaust with anything, and myself have referenced Jewish scholars condemning things that are politically intentioned like far-right Ukrainians trying to claim the Holodomor was a "twin genocide" with the Holocaust, with prominent Jewish scholars outright saying such is a form of Holocaust revisionism, so it'd be hypocritical to not acknowledge why references to the Holocaust upset some in relation to Palestine.

 

I'm sensitive to also other forms of Holocaust trivialization, like the belief that such applies when de-centering Jews as the primary and singular intended victims of the Holocaust, and that while groups like LGBT people or Romani or other ethnic groups saw immense suffering and death, the term Holocaust should largely only be used in reference to the planned and attempted extermination of the world's Jewish population, and the killing of 6 Million Jews.

 

I say this to emphasize that I get why there's a conscious push to protect Germany's Jewish population and ensure the horrors of antisemitism never show up again.

 

It is deeply troubling though that some Germans seem to take the lessons of the Holocaust to be not that the horrors inflicted on the Jewish people should be a lesson for the world of the cruelty and evils of nationalism and genocide, but exist in the mind of some Germans as the actions of German society at large, comprised of individual Germans, against Europe's Jews and thus it is now the duty of the ancestors of those Germans to unconditionally support the world's Jewish population but also Israel as a Jewish state.

 

And that this very specific piece in how the Germans have tackled reparation for the Holocaust seems more and more removed from a material definition of antisemitism, especially when progressive and liberal and leftist Jews are now beaten by and arrested by German police for calling for a ceasefire and protesting for Palestinians.

[Ghiles]

21 hours ago, stevyy said:

Germany has the biggest moral and historic obligation to secure a Jewish State. I am glad my country is enforcing it. 

then Germany should have given up some of its land to make up for the crimes it committed instead of making it another population's problem  losers

[Kimi]

In Germanys eyes Isreal can do no wrong. Being on the wrong side of the modern history is kinda their thing tho, they keep on delivering 

[stevyy]

13 hours ago, Eat The Acid said:

The implication that the Palestinian genocide is just aNoTHeR genocide is disgusting. Wtf…. 
 

Also if Germanys first priority is to secure an ethno state based on the principals of Nazi Germany - the country is truly sick and dysfunctional at its core. 

the word is used too often and people try to compare more recent atrocities to the Holocaust which is stupid. The Holocaust remains singular in its dimensions. 

[stevyy]

51 minutes ago, Ghiles said:

then Germany should have given up some of its land to make up for the crimes it committed instead of making it another population's problem  losers

They can have Eastern GER. <3

[Eat The Acid]

22 minutes ago, stevyy said:

the word is used too often and people try to compare more recent atrocities to the Holocaust which is stupid. The Holocaust remains singular in its dimensions. 

I didn’t use the word Holocaust. You did. I used the word genocide which is exactly what’s happening now in Palestine and Germany are enabling it.

[Communion]

59 minutes ago, stevyy said:

the word is used too often 

 

10 hours ago, Communion said:

It is deeply troubling though that some Germans seem to take the lessons of the Holocaust to be not that the horrors inflicted on the Jewish people should be a lesson for the world of the cruelty and evils of nationalism and genocide, but exist in the mind of some Germans as the actions of German society at large, comprised of individual Germans, against Europe's Jews and thus it is now the duty of the ancestors of those Germans to unconditionally support the world's Jewish population but also Israel as a Jewish state.

 

And that this very specific piece in how the Germans have tackled reparation for the Holocaust seems more and more removed from a material definition of antisemitism, especially when progressive and liberal and leftist Jews are now beaten by and arrested by German police for calling for a ceasefire and protesting for Palestinians.

Welp :/

[stevyy]

1 hour ago, Eat The Acid said:

I didn’t use the word Holocaust. You did. I used the word genocide which is exactly what’s happening now in Palestine and Germany are enabling it.

ridiculous. 

[Eat The Acid]

22 minutes ago, stevyy said:

ridiculous. 

What’s ridiculous about that? You can literally have your citizenship refused by Germany for protesting the genocide currently happening in Palestine. How is that not enablement?

[The7thStranger]

9 hours ago, stevyy said:

the word is used too often and people try to compare more recent atrocities to the Holocaust which is stupid. The Holocaust remains singular in its dimensions. 

This isn’t historically accurate unless you’re referring to the level of intricacy to the system Germany had in place.

 

Quote

It is estimated that during the initial Spanish conquest of the Americas, up to eight million Indigenous people died, primarily through the spread of Afro-Eurasian diseases.^[32][33] Simultaneously, wars and atrocities waged by Europeans against native Americans also resulted in hundreds of thousands to millions of deaths. The population of indigenous Americans is estimated to have decreased from approximately 145 million to around 7-15 million between the late 15th and late 17th centuries, representing a decline of around 90-95%.^[34]

Mistreatment and killing of Native Americans continued for centuries, in every area of the Americas, including the areas that would become Canada, the United States, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Chile. In the United States, some scholars (examples listed below) state that the American Indian Wars and the doctrine of manifest destiny contributed to the genocide, with one major event cited being the Trail of Tears.

 

Regardless, the Holocaust does not excuse misbehavior of the behalf of the Israeli government. Murder will always give you the same result.

 

[stevyy]

14 hours ago, Eat The Acid said:

What’s ridiculous about that? You can literally have your citizenship refused by Germany for protesting the genocide currently happening in Palestine. How is that not enablement?

It is ridiculous because your clear hatred for Germany or whatever, is making you write these ridiculous things. The whole topic of Israel is discussed in a very controversial way on all political talkshows here. Nobody is sanctioned for speaking out against a genocide. Your wording is so ridiculous, sorry. But whatever prompted you to write this, needs further reflection and knowledge on your part. 

 

I know the internet makes people spew nonsense like that without consequence. However, I assume people can be better than this. 

[Eat The Acid]

27 minutes ago, stevyy said:

It is ridiculous because your clear hatred for Germany or whatever, is making you write these ridiculous things. The whole topic of Israel is discussed in a very controversial way on all political talkshows here. Nobody is sanctioned for speaking out against a genocide. Your wording is so ridiculous, sorry. But whatever prompted you to write this, needs further reflection and knowledge on your part. 

 

I know the internet makes people spew nonsense like that without consequence. However, I assume people can be better than this. 

Take a deep breath and read OP again. You have a comprehension issue. 

[perpetual novice]

the irony about germany's involvement in this whole mess is their overcorrection in apologising for committing genocide by aiding in the genocide of another people they deem less important