poll is it finally time to admit Taylor has surpassed Madonna?

[Aethereal]

Nicki Minaj just sold over 1M albums in units (US) through streams without releasing any album this year?

Edited October 30, 2023 by Aristotle

[Popboi.]

4 minutes ago, Aristotle said:

Nicki Minaj just sold over 1M albums in units (US) through streams with releasing any album this year?

Why are you saying this as if it was a lot

[thequeenofpopmadonna]

posted wrong

Edited October 30, 2023 by thequeenofpopmadonna

[Redstreak]

People are so terrified of giving an artist in her prime her dues, there’s a reason Taylor’s getting compared to Beatlemania, there’s a reason she’s the top celebrity costume, people who say she doesn’t have any cultural currency are insane

[Aethereal]

21 minutes ago, Popboi. said:

Why are you saying this as if it was a lot

She could hardly sell that in 2012 with her second biggest album though. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Aristotle

[AxelFox]

No, and she never will.

 

She could double Madonna's total sales tomorrow and would still not be half as important to pop music and culture. 

 

There is a very clear distinction to be made when comparing taylor swift to the great icons of the past. They achieved astonishing commercial success due to being extraordinary,  taylor swift has done it in spite of not being so. 

[Jay07]

27 minutes ago, AxelFox said:

No, and she never will.

 

She could double Madonna's total sales tomorrow and would still not be half as important to pop music and culture. 

 

There is a very clear distinction to be made when comparing taylor swift to the great icons of the past. They achieved astonishing commercial success due to being extraordinary,  taylor swift has done it in spite of not being so. 

I'd argue she has done it precisely because she is the opposite of extraordinary. The age of larger than life popstars like Prince, Madonna and even Beyonce is gone, now people just want popstars to be basic and relatable and Taylor offers that in spades.

[Popboi.]

31 minutes ago, Aristotle said:

She could hardly sell that in 2012 with her second biggest album though. 

She technically was, but wasn't applied to the formula yet. Her digital single sales were huge.

[Aethereal]

Just now, Popboi. said:

She technically was, but wasn't applied to the formula yet. Her digital single sales were huge.

Yes still my point remains, Nicki is replicating 1/2 of her American success in 2012 despite not releasing any album or having a huge hit like Starship just shows how easy streaming made it for the younger artists.

[spree]

15 minutes ago, Jay07 said:

I'd argue she has done it precisely because she is the opposite of extraordinary. The age of larger than life popstars like Prince, Madonna and even Beyonce is gone, now people just want popstars to be basic and relatable and Taylor offers that in spades.

for someone who is apparently the biggest artist in the world at her zenith peak, releasing songs like Lavender Haze, Karma, S!ut, etc...just seems to be below the average par.  Anti-Hero is good, but i don't even think Cruel Summer is that great, either.  Never did.

[Aethereal]

Madonna - 240M CSPC

Taylor Swift - 175M CSPC

 

Taylor is getting an additional 16M album units inflated from overestimated digital downloads and Chinese sales. There is also the fact whenever CM overestimates non-Spotify streams with their algorithm.

[Pheromosa]

She is succeeding in a lane Madonna paved, not fair to say imo 

[Capris Groove]

Madonna essentially wrote the blueprint of a female music star (which is still being followed and actually has not been reinvented in any significant way), and was the first female multimedia star. That means every medium she touched was iconic - the most iconic pop songs, music videos, concert tours, photoshoots. She did this while breaking barriers, tackling serious subject matter while maintaining broad appeal, reinventing herself a hundred times over, and being incredibly autonomous in a very male-dominated industry.

 

So no, Taylor hasn't surprassed Madonna.

 

With that said, Taylor is actually a savvy businesswoman and has been doing some forward-thinking **** lately in terms of business (her last two albums, her AMC deal, etc.) She deserves credit for this.

[differentkindahigh]

29 minutes ago, spree said:

for someone who is apparently the biggest artist in the world at her zenith peak, releasing songs like Lavender Haze, Karma, S!ut, etc...just seems to be below the average par.  Anti-Hero is good, but i don't even think Cruel Summer is that great, either.  Never did.

Please, the music on anti hero is good but the lyrics sound like they're written by an 11 year old. Makes it unlistenable 

Edited October 30, 2023 by differentkindahigh

[Trent W]

3 hours ago, Punky Rooster said:

Madonna has the biggest commercial success, pressing play and the repeat icon isn’t a commercial transaction.

Taylor is way more dominant right now than Madonna ever was in her time

 

Biggest tour all time, taylor is outselling everyone 5x more, her debut weeks are outselling albums.

 

You can’t really compare albums vs streaming (even tho Taylor is by far the biggest in both)

 

But is really obvious that Taylor has found more commercial success

 

Her longevity is also absolutely insane.

 

For example Madonna was not as big in the 00s as Taylor is in the 2020s. Both in their 3rd decade

[cyberpunkgoth]

On 10/29/2023 at 12:10 PM, byzantium said:

the queens of Kpop

is red velvet

[Jump]

Also worth noting that Madonna was the first female who truly SMASHED and was considered competition to MJ and other phenomenons from previous eras like The Beatles and Elvis. Yes, the likes of Diana, Aretha, Olivia, Cher etc had hits but Madonna's stats across singles, album sales and touring blew everyone out of the water.

 

Her unprecedented success gave her leverage and eventually allowed her record label and management to grant her more control over her career. She was practically the first 'girl boss' in music, a model that Taylor and Beyonce now follow. Before Madonna, female musicians were treated as puppets in the industry. 

[Aethereal]

17 minutes ago, Jump said:

Also worth noting that Madonna was the first female who truly SMASHED and was considered competition to MJ and other phenomenons from previous eras like The Beatles and Elvis. Yes, the likes of Diana, Aretha, Olivia, Cher etc had hits but Madonna's stats across singles, album sales and touring blew everyone out of the water.

 

Her unprecedented success gave her leverage and eventually allowed her record label and management to grant her more control over her career. She was practically the first 'girl boss' in music, a model that Taylor and Beyonce now follow. Before Madonna, female musicians were treated as puppets in the industry. 

Madonna's peers in the 80s except for Whitney Houston sold less albums than the like of Katy Perry outside of America, just shows how impressive Madonna stats were. 

 

Also the revenue of album units from streaming is much smaller than the revenue of a vinyl or a CD sale with the market today being much stronger than it was ever, imagine the advantage, bigger market and less costly music. 

 

We have not covered other factors; there is also shipping, riding your car to buy the CD, sharing it with your roommates, the limit of country markets etc. India and Philippines were mostly out of question for Western artist back then. And the price of a physical album is nearly the same in Portugal as it is in US despite having great differences in incomes meanwhile streaming is much less costly than in US. The same can be said about most countries outside of the Western world. 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Aristotle

[unclefloprry]

in height? yes 

[Chris]

Let me be clear and say that we don't have to diminish or bring down Taylor Swift to enjoy Madonna or any other female artists, and vice versa.

 

We keep having these same repetitive threads that are not even being made by Taylor Swift fans and it's like the same repetitive talk over and over again.

 

And for what?

[barbiegrande]

10 hours ago, Redstreak said:

People are so terrified of giving an artist in her prime her dues, there’s a reason Taylor’s getting compared to Beatlemania, there’s a reason she’s the top celebrity costume, people who say she doesn’t have any cultural currency are insane

To me, it’s more so what her “cultural currency” represents. America moving to a more sanitized, “wholesome” idea of what female artists should strive for. Madonna was the complete opposite of that. 

[modeblock]

Love ms. Taylor - but No, it wasn't true when this same question was posed last week, and it's not true this week either. 

[Miss Americana]

Madonna was getting stomped on by Michael in the 80s, Mariah, Celine and even Janet in the 90s and everyone else and their mother in the 00s and 10s.

In the 20s, Taylor is the one doing the stomping  on everyone else, despite already stomping hard in the previous two decades.

https://www.billboard.com/photos/billboard-artist-of-the-year-gallery-1981-to-2015/7-2009/

 

Billboard Artist Of The Year:

1985 - Madonna(her only entry)

 

2009 - Taylor Swift

2015 - Taylor Swift

2023 - Taylor Swift

 

So, yes.

[GlamSlam]

14 hours ago, Miss Americana said:

Madonna was getting stomped on by Michael in the 80s, Mariah, Celine and even Janet in the 90s and everyone else and their mother in the 00s and 10s.

In the 20s, Taylor is the one doing the stomping  on everyone else, despite already stomping hard in the previous two decades.

https://www.billboard.com/photos/billboard-artist-of-the-year-gallery-1981-to-2015/7-2009/

 

Billboard Artist Of The Year:

1985 - Madonna(her only entry)

 

2009 - Taylor Swift

2015 - Taylor Swift

2023 - Taylor Swift

 

So, yes.

That's BS and you know it.

 

Michael was above everyone in the 80's. Watch this video of best selling artists (worldwide) on a yearly timeline and see what happens when Madonna debuts. She rises very quickly and even surpasses MJ in 85/86...and then again in 1991-1992.  In fact, she was the best selling female artist worldwide for 8 consecutive years and stays on this chart for another 20. The only other female acts to topple MJ from #1 (to a much lesser degree) were Whitney and Celine, not Mariah, or Janet (whom I don't see on this list at all).

 

As you can see, TS emerged in 2009 and failed to topple anyone from #1.

She has little competition in 2023 because she's oversaturated the market (seven albums in 3 years, and so on). She even tries to sabotage other artists when they get far too big for her liking.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by GlamSlam

[Miss Americana]

3 minutes ago, GlamSlam said:

Oh and winning Billboard artist of the year means nothing when it's run by fans with an agenda.

I'm not going to watch any YouTube video quoting dubious facts while you are out here calling Billboard "fans with an agenda".

 

BB artist of the year is not an award grandpa, it is a Year End Top Artists chart that lists artists based on their chart performance.

 

https://www.billboard.com/charts/year-end/2009/top-artists/