base talk Renaissance only 3 million daily streams, what happened??

[PrettyHurts]

she drops her music like a hot potato and does next to nothing to sustain it after release. it's been this way for a decade 

[Anti-Hero]

1 hour ago, GoodGuyGoneGhetto said:

What?

 

When was 4 ever out-streaming LOUD and 21 and if that was the case then, what’s happened since? 
 

Honestly, as I’m genuinely curious now…

These are lies. Loud and 21  always outstreamed 4

[makeme]

Looks like I need to stream Heated more often 

[swissman]

13 minutes ago, Anti-Hero said:

How can it be so personal when it was written by dozen writers? Make it make sense

First of all, this album was never touted as "my most personal album yet", so adding up every element of possible personal touch as if it needs to meet any quota is irrelevant.

Similarly how can a film be personal to a director if they didn't write the story or the script, either? Because the choices in setting, tone, costume, sound, acting style/delivery, etc. etc. made can be informed by the person's worldview, personal life or experiences.

 

The question is not whether or not it is fully her personal story, but if there is "no personal touch" as you so boldly stated. Literally just one personal touch invalidates that, but aside from the reference to her uncle, she has a reference to her own daughter and her husband, and beyond that, the very act of writing/producing on your album, whether or not there are others too, involves adding your personal touch to it.

And even if you didn't start the song yourself from scratch, it can be personal. Do you think no singer has ever personally related to a song and subsequently approached the vocals from that space? A good vocalist would and this itself is another aspect of personal touch. In the words of The-Dream:

 

"I can’t wait until she tells the story about how personal it is to her when she actually tried to record [BREAK MY SOUL] the first time, because there’s just such a deeper meaning literally behind this song for her, and I can’t wait for her to express it.”

 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by swissman

[vale9001]

14 minutes ago, Sept said:

Beyonce's music has been about "arts not the charts" for a long time. It's not the kind of music that you would hear in a mall, or coffee shops, or train station (which plays a big part in Spotify's streams). But she delivered 3 back-to-back classics that will stay in music history

 

Even the most impactful album of all time (Marvin Gaye's "What's Going On") wasn't very successful commercially, but it has proven its legacy after 50 years

"Released on May 21, 1971, What's Going On became Gaye's Top 10 entry on the Billboard Top LPs, peaking at number six. It stayed on the chart over a year, selling some two million copies within twelve months"

 

2m copies in the 70s was huge. 

 

also

 

"The title track, which had been released in January 1971 as the lead single to promote the album, sold more than 200,000 copies within its first week and two-and-a-half-million by the end of the year"

 

500k copies for a single in the 70s was huge too.

 

3 singles reached number one on r'n'b charts and he became at the time the first male artist ever to place 3 songs from a single album in the top 10 of the Hot 100.

 

Sounds like a big commercial success.

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by vale9001

[Rotunda]

13 minutes ago, Anti-Hero said:

How can it be so personal when it was written by dozen writers? Make it make sense

I know your comment isn’t fully meant to be taken seriously, but I do think that art can have personal importance to someone even if they are not doing it or directing it all their own. Bey obviously required assistance from a large swath of individuals to pull of Coachella, but it was still personal for her to put together an ode to Black Culture drawing from the HBCU experience for that performance. Similarly, Bey obviously took it seriously to engage with queer culture when creating a tribute to her late gay uncle. 

Doing something the right way often involves a lot of personal touches even if one isn’t doing the work on their own. 

[Anti-Hero]

5 minutes ago, swissman said:

First of all, this album was never touted as "my most personal album yet", so adding up every element of possible personal touch as if it needs to meet any quota is irrelevant.

Similarly how can a film be personal to a director if they didn't write the story or the script, either? Because the choices in setting, tone, costume, sound, acting style/delivery, etc. etc. made can be informed by the person's worldview, personal life or experiences.

 

The question is not whether or not it is fully her personal story, but if there is "no personal touch" as you so boldly stated. Literally just one personal touch invalidates that, but aside from the reference to her uncle, she has a reference to her own daughter and her husband, and beyond that, the very act of writing/producing on your album, whether or not there are others too, involves adding your personal touch to it.

And even if you didn't start the song yourself from scratch, it can be personal. Do you think no singer has ever personally related to a song and subsequently approached the vocals from that space? A good vocalist would and this itself is another aspect of personal touch. In the words of The-Dream:

 

"I can’t wait until she tells the story about how personal it is to her when she actually tried to record [BREAK MY SOUL] the first time, because there’s just such a deeper meaning literally behind this song for her, and I can’t wait for her to express it.”

 

 

If Bey just collabed with few writers and producers, this album would have won AOTY. I am just telling these factors hinders her from achieving this because it feels like she did not do anything aside from singing.

[superben]

She is all about hype.

 

The GP has not clicked with her music for so long.

[Rotunda]

10 minutes ago, Anti-Hero said:

If Bey just collabed with few writers and producers, this album would have won AOTY. I am just telling these factors hinders her from achieving this because it feels like she did not do anything aside from singing.

Saying that she would have fared better at the Grammys if she had fewer collaborators is an entirely different conversation than you specifically calling her album impersonal because she doesn’t dominate the writing of it. It’s quite the pivot.

 

Don’t pass off your lack of critical thinking skills as you just trying to speak from the perspective of a Grammy voter. 
 

 

[swissman]

3 minutes ago, Anti-Hero said:

If Bey just collabed with few writers and producers, this album would have won AOTY. I am just telling these factors hinders her from achieving this because it feels like she did not do anything aside from singing.

The Grammys / people's bias against works with large numbers of writers and/or samples is not Beyoncé's problem.

Punishing works that have higher amounts of collaboration just shows ones inability to hear music for what it is, not what went into it. Is an orchestra less impressive than a string quartet? What's the difference when it comes to creating the music itself, if it's still good music?

Given that sampling has originated with hip-hop and other Black-led-genres (like dance music), there's precedence for the racism of the Grammys to show itself in disguise as the inability to recognize such works as AOTY because of the writers' list.

 

BUT Here is what Beyoncé's lyrical credits look like with samples removed:

• 11/16 tracks have THREE writers

 

 

 

And I know the response will be "BUT THERE ARE SAMPLES!" which is 100% true, and are included not just because she's making a dance album with hip-hop influences, but because that's EXACTLY on theme to the very concept of the album itself: RENAISSANCE.

If anyone is stupid enough to think that a large list of writers (mainly samples) on an album conceptually created to reinvigorate sounds of the past means it's a lesser work, then that's their issue, that's their inability to understand art beyond the bounds of "wow this is great because it's such a personal, solo written song."

 

[AxelFox]

2 minutes ago, Anti-Hero said:

If Bey just collabed with few writers and producers, this album would have won AOTY. I am just telling these factors hinders her from achieving this because it feels like she did not do anything aside from singing.

Her aim was to create the best record she could create, not pander to what the voting board in the general fields at the Grammys believe to be AOTY. What kind of arbitrary argument is this

 

Do you even know how the Grammys work? The genre specific categories are voted by artists working IN specific genre, people that actually know what they're listening and voting for. Beyoncé swapping genre categories means she is very much appreciated by the people with expertise in that area of music.
 

The general fields are voted by everyone in every genre. Renaissance not winning AOTY simply means it didn't have the cross-appeal to voters from other genres. The fact that old, wite men in the rock, folk, country etc boards did not get and appreciate the scope of an unapologetically black, queer dance album with roots in ballroom music takes NOTHING away from its excellence. It just means another album was easily digestible enough and inoffensive to gather votes from said tropes of voters  

[Solaria]

31 minutes ago, Anti-Hero said:

not @Love Again acting like you are not dragging taylor every single day 

I’ve praised Taylor more than I’ve dissed her in the past year 

[Kristie Kuwa]

10 minutes ago, superben said:

She is all about hype.

 

The GP has not clicked with her music for so long.

And then Cuff It happened

[Fitzswiftie]

2 hours ago, KMO said:

Kylie isn’t Beyoncé’s generation tbh, unless you’re comparing them because they both had a commercial peak (not their only one, just one of them) at the same time?

Yup, that’s why I included both her and Mary, since their US commercial peaks were occurred at the same time as DC/DIL.

[Pheromosa]

The “niche” album is doing way better than most catered to the GP. Imagine if she gave the people what they really begged for.

[Squall]

The album is terrible so I'm not surprised, she has done so much better.

[Axelios]

37 minutes ago, Kristie Kuwa said:

And then Cuff It happened

Even Cuff It had poor streaming longevity compared to other 2022 hits unfortunately 

[burninredhot]

2 hours ago, Blue Rose said:

I know you are not saying this in a dumb thread made by swifties and filled with swifties nonsense, but hey playing the victim comes naturally to you all

Talking about playing the victim when you're the one complaining here like a baby 

[beyonceparkwood]

Now why on earth would Harry Styles and Beyoncé match in streams, there’s like 15 years in between their solo debuts lol.

Beyoncé’s streaming numbers are actually impressive, considering she’s constantly compared to people that debuted a decade, sometimes even two, after she debuted. Constantly surrounding herself with new competition.

[on the line]

1 hour ago, vale9001 said:

"Released on May 21, 1971, What's Going On became Gaye's Top 10 entry on the Billboard Top LPs, peaking at number six. It stayed on the chart over a year, selling some two million copies within twelve months"

 

2m copies in the 70s was huge. 

 

also

 

"The title track, which had been released in January 1971 as the lead single to promote the album, sold more than 200,000 copies within its first week and two-and-a-half-million by the end of the year"

 

500k copies for a single in the 70s was huge too.

 

3 singles reached number one on r'n'b charts and he became at the time the first male artist ever to place 3 songs from a single album in the top 10 of the Hot 100.

 

Sounds like a big commercial success.

 

 

 

Now This is What I Call Receipts (The Measles, Mumps, and Hives are Liars Version), Vol 42!

 

 

[Axelios]

1 hour ago, vale9001 said:

"Released on May 21, 1971, What's Going On became Gaye's Top 10 entry on the Billboard Top LPs, peaking at number six. It stayed on the chart over a year, selling some two million copies within twelve months"

 

2m copies in the 70s was huge. 

 

also

 

"The title track, which had been released in January 1971 as the lead single to promote the album, sold more than 200,000 copies within its first week and two-and-a-half-million by the end of the year"

 

500k copies for a single in the 70s was huge too.

 

3 singles reached number one on r'n'b charts and he became at the time the first male artist ever to place 3 songs from a single album in the top 10 of the Hot 100.

 

Sounds like a big commercial success.

 

 

 

It's really crazy how much Beyonce fans tend to lie and diminish other artists' accomplishments just to prop her up 

[Kristie Kuwa]

11 minutes ago, Axelios said:

Even Cuff It had poor streaming longevity compared to other 2022 hits unfortunately 

Well again, shes a legacy act. Cuff It became her biggest hit on charts in a decade, so theres really no point in arguing against it being a hit in her repertoire. It did really well for almost an entire year (globally speaking at that), which is already crazy good for someone whos been successfully in the industry for more than 25+ years.

[Kristie Kuwa]

Just now, Axelios said:

It's really crazy how much Beyonce fans tend to lie and diminish other artists' accomplishments just to prop her up 

Whats crazy is your behavior and obsession with Beyoncé if anything

 

[awong918]

She debuted almost 3 decades ago. Why is she being compared to the current it-popboy?  

[on the line]

3 minutes ago, beyonceparkwood said:

Now why on earth would Harry Styles and Beyoncé match in streams, there’s like 15 years in between their solo debuts lol.

Beyoncé’s streaming numbers are actually impressive, considering she’s constantly compared to people that debuted a decade, sometimes even two, after she debuted. Constantly surrounding herself with new competition.

Lol what though? 

 

Both AOTY nominees. Both numerous (paid or "sponsored") articles touting them as the AOTY winner. Both on the top world wide (stadium?) tours. Both on nearly every "Year End Best Of" lists, and I could go on and on and on. Renny should be doing WAY better w/ all the critical praise and "sold out" tour hype. USA Today is hiring/has hired a writer exclusively for Beyonce news. Just #facts (/icespice). 

 

The emphasis placed on how long ago she debuted is really misguided and frankly a bit misogynist and ageist that you feel you need to use it as an excuse as to why she may underperform. It's quite weird. The music just didn't connect with most people, and that's OKAY. Not sure why it's so hard for some to admit that.