base talk Where are Taylor's international units coming from?

[Rep2000]

6 minutes ago, orange22 said:

It sounds like you have an issue with the photo. Sorry you feel that way! 

Yeah I have issue with you using the photo with no context whatsoever. Whatever nonsense intention you had was clearly not wise, considering how you are uncapable of explaining yourself.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Rep2000

[orange22]

Just now, Rep2000 said:

Yeah I have issue with you using the photo with no context whatsoever. Whatever nonsense intention you had was clearly not wise, considering how you are uncapable of explaing yourself.

And who are you that I have to explain myself to? this bothered over what??

[Rep2000]

Just now, orange22 said:

And who are you that I have to explain myself to? this bothered over what??

Who I am doesn't matter. It's what kind of person you are that now we knew. Enjoy the side eyes from now on.

[orange22]

Just now, Rep2000 said:

Who I am doesn't matter. It's what kind of person you are that now we knew. Enjoy the side eyes from now on.

girl I’m sorry you’re so confused 

Edited September 2, 2023 by orange22

[NoOneDiesFromLove]

from my apple music

[Klein]

Wtf is wrong with you two? That was like the weirdest interaction between 2 members I've ever read on this goddamn website. 

[prézli]

She's local, so it's not that much to discuss about.

 

[prézli]

On 9/1/2023 at 10:49 PM, Nnnv said:

She’s charting almost 5-8 of her albums in all big music markets from Italy to Germany to UK to Canada to Belgium to Australia to New Zealand…

Speak Now (Taylor's Version)

 

Germany Albums Chart n/a

 

Her only #1 album in Germany is Midnights.

[WildHeart]

15 minutes ago, prézli said:

Speak Now (Taylor's Version)

 

Germany Albums Chart n/a

 

Her only #1 album in Germany is Midnights.

Longevity, not the peaks 

[Aethereal]

US 1989 - 12.3M Units (reported in early August)

UK 1989 - 1.6M Units

1989 - 27.6M total Units 

 

Those two big markets with around 7.5M pure copies are only making 50% of overall units, while they represent 40%-50% of streams in Spotify and the majority of streams in Apple Music and Amazon Music. 

[Into The Void]

23m sounds inflated its def not that much

[Axelios]

On 9/5/2023 at 1:26 AM, Aristotle said:

US 1989 - 12.3M Units (reported in early August)

UK 1989 - 1.6M Units

1989 - 27.6M total Units 

 

Those two big markets with around 7.5M pure copies are only making 50% of overall units, while they represent 40%-50% of streams in Spotify and the majority of streams in Apple Music and Amazon Music. 

This comment just shows you don't really understand Chartmasters methodology and how it's different from Billboard. This isn't specific to Taylor Swift.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Axelios

[Nico Robin]

from outside of the US? dumb question

[Aethereal]

5 hours ago, Axelios said:

This comment just shows you don't really understand Chartmasters methodology and how it's different from Billboard. This isn't specific to Taylor Swift.

So you agree that Chartmasters is probably inflating Taylor's numbers? And yes my first straw with Chartmasters was with Rihanna nearly outselling Britney without releasing any new album since 2016.

 

[Axelios]

8 minutes ago, Aristotle said:

So you agree that Chartmasters is probably inflating Taylor's numbers? And yes my first straw with Chartmasters was with Rihanna nearly outselling Britney without releasing any new album since 2016.

 

It's not inflating Taylor's numbers but it's also not using the same methodology as Billboard for album units. For instance, Billboard doesn't include pre release units in their totals and they don't count digital sales in the same way. Official charts around the world the world also don't use the same methodology so you can't just sum up the units from different charts as if they were equivalent and then compare the totals.

The point of Chartmasters is to have a common system that counts everything the same way which is the only way you can actually make meaningful comparisons between different artists. The only official org that also does that is the IFPI. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Axelios

[Aethereal]

9 minutes ago, Axelios said:

It's not inflating Taylor's numbers but it's also not using the same methodology as Billboard for album units. For instance, Billboard doesn't include pre release units in their totals and they don't count digital sales in the same way. Official charts around the world the world also don't use the methodology so you can't just sum up the units from different charts as if they were equivalent and then compare the totals.

The point of Chartmasters is to have a common system that counts everything the same way which is the only way you can actually make meaningful comparisons between different artists. The only official org that also does that is the IFPI. 

Chartmasters does not have access to majority of streaming platforms. Rihanna was well above Taylor until the Lover or Folklore era according to Chartmasters, most Swifties vehemently rejected this ranking back in the day. 

 

And I just found India's premium membership in Spotify costs $1.4 and the Philippines $2.7.

The revenue of an album unit in those market is 80 cents in India in particular to $1.5 in Philippines, far away from Mariah in the continent.  

Edited September 6, 2023 by Aristotle

[Axelios]

8 minutes ago, Aristotle said:

Chartmasters does not have access to majority of streaming platforms. Rihanna was well above Taylor until the Lover or Folklore era according to Chartmasters, most Swifties vehemently rejected this ranking back in the day. 

 

And I just found India's premium membership in Spotify costs $1.4 and the Philippines $2.7.

The revenue of an album unit in those market is 80 cents in India in particular to 1.5$ in Philippines, far away from Mariah in the contentment.  

Chartmasters doesn't measure the revenue of albums but consumption. In fact, most charts don't. We also don't make distinctions between Vinyls and CDs based on pricing so I don't see why the cost of Spotify subscriptions is relevant.

Certifications in the past were also inflated by a lot of stuff like excessive shipments, music club sales for less than 1$, bundles...

Mariah is a perfect illustration of that if you compare her billboard units to her certifications.

In reality there is no objective perfect metric to compare success of different artists. It depends on what you want to evaluate.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Axelios

[Aethereal]

5 minutes ago, Axelios said:

Chartmasters doesn't measure the revenue of albums but consumption. In fact, most charts don't. We also don't make distinctions between Vinyls and CDs based on pricing so I don't see why the cost of Spotify subscriptions is relevant.

Certifications in the past were also inflated by a lot of stuff like excessive shipments, club sales...

In reality there is no objective perfect metric to compare success of different artists. It depends on what you want to evaluate.

In many markets the price of CDs is the same as in America (the books are even more expensive despite having different average salaries in DIGITS). And you have to promote, to ship the product etc. While in the ages of internet a single Instagram post will get you hundreds of albums sold from a weak market in an hour from people who don't even like your music but will click on it out of curiosity.

 

Not the same. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Aristotle

[Axelios]

9 minutes ago, Aristotle said:

In many markets the price of CDs is the same as in America (the books are even more expensive despite having different average salaries in DIGITS). And you have to promote, to ship the product etc. While in the ages of internet a single Instagram post will get you hundreds of albums sold from a weak market in an hour from people who don't even like your music but will click on it out of curiosity.

 

Not the same. 

This is irrelevant to what I wrote. There is no distinction based on pricing in official charts so why should it exist between countries? Should Mariah less than 1$ album club sales be removed too or count as 1/30 of a 30$ vinyl?

The idea that CM favors new acts is weird given that the all time ranking is always dominated by artists from the 80s/90s which for obvious reasons had an easier time pushing album sales.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Axelios

[Aethereal]

24 minutes ago, Axelios said:

This is irrelevant to what I wrote. There is no distinction based on pricing in official charts so why should it exist between countries? Should Mariah less than 1$ album club sales be removed too or count as 1/30 of a 30$ vinyl?

The idea that CM favors new acts is weird given that the all time ranking is always dominated by artists from the 80s/90s which for obvious reasons had an easier time pushing album sales.

Do you have evidence they cost a dollar? And there is a difference when the main standard revenue for an album sale is 70 cents with the price of the album falling down after most  copies were sold. Bear in mind that first week/month prices are exceptionally high over 20$.

 

We might just count single sales like album sales like that and let Rihanna beat Taylor because club sales exist. How about that?

 

--

 

Taylor was stomping on her peers in US since her debut with pure sales.

 

Taylor Swift - 5.8M pure sales in US

This  is more than Beyonce's, Christina's and Britney's studio album American sales in 2006-2007 combined together.

 

Fearless probably outperformed The Fame in US. And Red was a strong competition for Teenage Dream. Later 1989 happened which I believe when counting singles sales is only 2M-3M away from Adele's 25 TEA. Speaking of US only, of course.

 

Despite all of this dominance with later the streaming era taking off, it took Taylor nearly 20 years to reach or pass Madonna and Mariah in America. 

 

Are we to believe she is going to take over Mariah and Madonna with those cheap/free streams outside of America despite being miles away all those years? 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Aristotle

[Axelios]

31 minutes ago, Aristotle said:

Do you have evidence they cost a dollar? And there is a difference when the main standard revenue for an album sale is 70 cents with the price of the album falling down after most  copies were sold. Bear in mind that first week/month prices are exceptionally high over 20$.

 

We might just count single sales like album sales like that and let Rihanna beat Taylor because club sales exist. How about that?

 

--

 

Taylor was stomping on her peers in US since her debut with pure sales.

 

Taylor Swift - 5.8M pure sales in US

This  is more than Beyonce's, Christina's and Britney's studio album American sales in 2006-2007 combined together.

 

Fearless probably outperformed The Fame in US. And Red was a strong competition for Teenage Dream. Later 1989 happened which I believe when counting singles sales is only 2M-3M away from Adele's 25 TEA. Speaking of US only, of course.

 

Despite all of this dominance with later the streaming era taking off, it took Taylor nearly 20 years to reach or pass Madonna and Mariah in America. 

 

Are we to believe she is going to take over Mariah and Madonna with those cheap/free streams outside of America despite being miles away all those years? 

It was much less than 1$ dollar actually.

The prices varied a lot but you could get multiple CDs for like 1 cent and all of this counted towards artists RIAA certifications in the US.

I think you underestimate how significant club sales were for a lot of artists.

 

Taylor global music consumption is just outstanding right now so it's not that surprising that she'd become one of the biggest artists of all time. If it was that easy to surpass the biggest 80s/90s acts with streaming then other streaming acts would be able to achieve this too. In reality it's the opposite, it's much harder to sell large number of units nowadays even with streaming and using CM formula.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Axelios

[WildHeart]

On 9/5/2023 at 2:26 AM, Aristotle said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Aristotle said:

Are we to believe she is going to take over Mariah and Madonna with those cheap/free streams outside of America despite being miles away all those years? 

She is not going to surpass Madonna's outside the US sales anytime soon tho, she will surpass her thanks to her big lead in US sales. 

 

 

About your question, Chartmaster use ~1.7x ratio for Taylor (different for every artist) iirc. That means she gets total of 1.7x of her Spotify streams. 

If she gets 1000 streams from Spotify, she gets 1700 streams from Spotify+Apple+Amazon etc. 

And also there is free streams from Youtube, QQ music etc. 

 

I think that math makes sense for her streaming units. He didn't apply it to every artist yet so their streaming units total will increase a bit as well. 

 

 

About streaming units being easier to accumulate, i disagree. For example, big albums used to sell 20-30M back when album sales were still big. Streaming equivelant of this is like 20B-30B Spotify streams these days which is very hard to get. For reference, most streamed album stands at 14B streams right now. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Artistofthedecade

[Aethereal]

32 minutes ago, Artistofthedecade said:

 

She is not going to surpass Madonna's outside the US sales anytime soon tho, she will surpass her thanks her big lead in US sales. 

She just outsold Madonna recently. What big lead? Maybe it will become big after few years but still. 

 

Taylor also has an additional 7M (inflated) album units (same as Katy and even less than Rihanna) from digital single sales.

 

I just checked her sales in UK, Japan and Canada and her streaming album units are far away from her pure sales era. And those used to be her biggest international market.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Aristotle

[WildHeart]

1 hour ago, Aristotle said:

She just outsold Madonna recently. What big lead? Maybe it will become big after few years but still. 

In the US? And she is still 70M behind globally. 

When she reach Madonna's global sales, it will be thanks to her US lead by then. 

 

1 hour ago, Aristotle said:

I just checked her sales in UK, Japan and Canada and her streaming album units are far away from her pure sales era. And those used to be her biggest international market

In Japan, market struggled to adapt to streaming and western music totally lost its power there. Her last Platinum album there was Reputation from 2017.

 

In UK, she gets +5M daily streams (~6% of her total). She will end the year with ~1.4B Spotify streams there which is equal to +1M streaming album equivalents. She had total of 6-7M album units in UK through her career so that's big. 

 

Before streaming, Anglosphere and mainland Europe aka richer part of the world used to have big part of the music market thanks to pure sales. With streaming and music becoming more accessable, they lost their hold on global music market and LATAM + Asia is as important today. 

So comparing her (or anyone else's) biggest markets to past doesn't make much sense. I am pretty sure Shakira could be a much bigger force back then with today's LATAM music market. 

 

It is just easier to be global (numbers wise) nowadays. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Artistofthedecade

[vale9001]

Mediatraffic estimations this week

 

most selling global abums

 

6) Midnights 84k

7) speak now taylor version 76k

8) Lover 68k

10) folklore 61K

 

out of top 10

 

1989 54k

Red (tv) 39K

evermore 33K

 

 

 

total of 7 albums of 13: 415k

 

total 13 albums: definitely not less than 550K (reputation alone should be at around 45k)

 

550K x 52 weeks makes 28.6M copies WW in a year (estimation of a casual normal summer week, not a week of new releases)

 

Now you get the math of having 10+ albums  performing as new on charts of every country of the world?. 

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by vale9001