celeb news Roisin Murphy admits transphobia in awful statement; Ninja Tune ceases promotion

[vadge]

 

10 minutes ago, Communion said:

You would not say that a man who purposefully got a vasectomy or a woman who got their tubes tied were "being subjected to sterilization".

They are adults. We're talking about children.

 

10 minutes ago, Communion said:

Someone who wants to take cross sex hormones to ease gender dysphoria often does not want to produce the kind of sex based gametes in the first place.Someone who wants their body to stop producing sperm or eggs and gets that result and more through HRT is not the same as victims of forced sterilization because they were part of a clinical drug trial and lied to about the side effects of what they were taking.

Again... adults. Children cannot consent to sterility.

 

10 minutes ago, Communion said:

It reveals a purposefully negative framework and hatred of trans people when misusing medical terminology to fearmonger over the lives of trans people. 

And where did I refer to trans people at all? Nothing I said was about trans people. That's actually the entire point.

 

Misusing where? Debunk it. Presenting research = fearmongering?

Edited August 24, 2023 by vadge

[Communion]

38 minutes ago, vadge said:

You realise everyone else can go and look at my posts too, right?

 

 

"Remember when we were ALLOWED to say gay???"

 

You're still and always have been allowed to say the word gay; the word queer is not some term pushed by trans people to silence gays, especially because the history of the term is inherently linked to same sex attraction; and you sound like a hateful British boomer by pushing some conspiracy theory that somehow trans people are replacing and erasing gay people when the vast majority of increases in LGBT identification in recent years have nothing to do with trans people but a huge spike in openly bisexual people.  Cis gay people aren't being tricked into being trans fjdjej shut up. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Communion

[Communion]

13 minutes ago, vadge said:

Children cannot consent to sterility.

The risk of fertility is considered medically necessary when prescribing puberty blockers to young children with precocious puberty, so again, this claim that anyone is being sterilized is nonsense. 

 

You're a hate preacher no different than those who refer to trans people as mutilated. Your language reveals you're not actually concerned with any trans person's well-being. 

[vadge]

3 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

 

"Remember when we were ALLOWED to say gay???"

 

You're still and always have been allowed to say the word gay; the word queer is not some term pushed by trans people to silence gays, especially because the history of the term is inherently linked to same sex attraction; and you sound like a hateful British boomer by pushing some conspiracy theory that somehow trans people are replacing and erasing gay people when the vast majority of increases in LGBT identification in recent years have nothing to do with trans people but a huge spike in openly bisexual people.  Gay people aren't being tricked into trans fjdjej shut up. 

Great. Now put all that energy into this topic and debunk my so-called disinformation.

[GraceRandolph]

4 hours ago, The Man Who said:

This is the first time I’m hearing about this singer so I’m surprised her ignorant comments have caused such an uproar here. I’m guessing she has a large LGBT+ following? 

Define large

[vadge]

1 minute ago, Communion said:

The risk of fertility is considered medically necessary when prescribing puberty blockers to young children with precocious puberty, so again, this claim that anyone is being sterilized is nonsense. 

Children with precocious puberty don't end up on cross sex hormones. Like I said, it is Lupron and cross sex hormones that guarantees sterility.

 

It is also medically necessary for children with precocious puberty. As we just established, 60-90% of children who would be considered eligible for puberty blockers do not need them.

 

3 minutes ago, Communion said:

You're a hate preacher no different than those who refer to trans people as mutilated. Your language reveals you're not actually concerned with any trans person's well-being. 

And yet it's not me witch-hunting women and sterilising gender nonconforming gays and lesbians.

[Blue Jeans]

She really opened a can of worms  This is a very sensitive and relatively new topic, and there is no black or white. And online users jumping to conclusions from the thread title as usual and calling her music trash  Anyway, I will keep streaming and buying her music that positively impacted many queer people and hope she can learn more about the topic. I will also keep supporting and buying music from trans women like Arca, Sophie (RIP...), Kim Petras (who transitioned as a child) and others 

[theoghon]

I found this video on the topic:

 

 

[theoghon]

3 minutes ago, Blue Jeans said:

She really opened a can of worms  This is a very sensitive and relatively new topic, and there is no black or white. And online users jumping to conclusions from the thread title as usual and calling her music trash  Anyway, I will keep streaming and buying her music that positively impacted many queer people and hope she can learn more about the topic. I will also keep supporting and buying music from trans women like Arca, Sophie (RIP...), Kim Petras (who transitioned as a child) and others 

[Communion]

33 minutes ago, vadge said:

As we just established, 60-90% of children who would be considered eligible for puberty blockers do not need them.

Again, this claim simply isn't true and you make it knowing that outdated studies focused on gender non-conforming children have had their methodology questioned, especially when the study you rely on assumes in its figures that any child who simply did not follow up with the clinic then can be assumed as deciding they are comfortably cis.

 

A gender non-conforming child is not a trans child expressing experiencing gender dysphoria. You cannot assess the most effective treatments for children with gender dysphoria with studies that largely chose children who displayed "gender incongruent behavior" yet who largely never expressed believing themselves to be a different gender. Let alone when then the entire approach of the study to not treat any expressions of gender dysphoria but to just wait and watch for changes harmed the subset of youth who DID express believing they were another gender.

 

 

Someone being gender non-conforming does not make it more likely to then be prescribed puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones. 

 

You have refused to acknowledge that detransition rates are as low as 3% and yourself even acknowledge in your fearmongering that puberty blockers are "dangerous" because someone who meets the criteria to be prescribed them is extremely likely to continue transitioning BECAUSE THEY WERE KNOWINGLY TRANS ALL ALONG.

 

"Gender-affirming care isn't medically necessary" 

 

People like you are so fundamentally aged out of any rational discussion and swept up into such reactionary conspiracy theories that you rather have dead trans children than trans youth having their gender affirmed. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Communion

[TrashMagiq]

22 hours ago, SecretSecret said:

Not all the transphobic f*gs in this forum getting brave all of a sudden  If you don't know sh*t about how medical transition actually works, or your sources are some right wing newspaper, we really don't need to be subjected to your ignorant opinions.

I agree but saying this while having the woman that's been aggressively transphobic countless of times (called Arca a man, called SOPHIE a man, said Kim Petras had a "ballsack for pussylips", generally made statements about trans women not being real women, and so much more) as your profile pic is wild.

Edited August 24, 2023 by TrashMagiq

[SapphireSky]

You lot are so sad 

[CelesteDijon]

Ok but is this actually her tho? 

[Patient Zero]

On 8/23/2023 at 5:46 PM, JohnWayneHolland said:

Isn't she like a gay icon or something? 

What does being trans have anything to do with being gay?

 

These are two different things.

[CandleGuy]

2 hours ago, Communion said:

You would not say that a man who purposefully got a vasectomy or a woman who got their tubes tied were "being subjected to sterilization". You would sound socially illiterate.

Equating the decisions of a grown man and woman to that of a 12 year old tells us all we need to know, you could have stopped here.

[vadge]

34 minutes ago, Communion said:

Again, this claim simply isn't true and you make it knowing that outdated studies focused on gender non-conforming children have had their methodology questioned, especially when the study you rely on assumes in its figures that any child who simply did not follow up with the clinic then can be assumed as deciding they are comfortably cis.

I provided like 14 sources, spanning 5 decades. And you?

 

36 minutes ago, Communion said:

A gender non-conforming child is not a trans child expressing experiencing gender dysphoria. You cannot assess the most effective treatments for children with gender dysphoria with studies that largely chose children who displayed "gender incongruent behavior" yet who largely never expressed believing themselves to be a different gender.

The studies assessed the most effective treatments for children who were classed as dysphoric, not gender nonconforming. Although gender dysphoria in children can only exist alongside and as a result of gender nonconformity. Each study very clearly outlines that they assessed children who were dysphoric and later grew out of their dysphoria without intervention. You're conflating that with gender nonconformity, I suggest reading it again slower.

 

45 minutes ago, Communion said:

Let alone when then the entire approach of the study to not treat any expressions of gender dysphoria but to just wait and watch for changes harmed the subset of youth who DID express believing they were another gender.

Conflating again. The study was on 'youth who believed they were another gender', and 87.8% of them (boys) overcame their dysphoria when left alone. And even for that remaining 12.2%, a US study from 2022 determined the rate of medical detransition (discontinuing cross sex hormones) among teens and young adults to be 30%.

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-abstract/107/9/e3937/6572526?login=false

 

1 hour ago, Communion said:

You have refused to acknowledge that detransition rates are as low as 3% and yourself even acknowledge in your fearmongering that puberty blockers are "dangerous" because someone who meets the criteria to be prescribed them is extremely likely to continue transitioning BECAUSE THEY WERE KNOWINGLY TRANS ALL ALONG.

Just covered medical detransition rates, which is reported to be 30%.

 

And funny that you immediately discredited all my sources on the belief that children who didn't follow up with the clinic were recorded as "cis", but then will confidently and uncritically assert that detransition rates are 3%, as though every detransitioner has followed up with their clinic after being vilified and bullied out of their own communities.

 

 

Puberty blockers are dangerous. Again, reading: 98% of children put on puberty blockers will follow on to cross sex hormones, which teamed with Lupron (puberty blocker) gifts them guaranteed sterility and loss of sexual function.

 

1 hour ago, Communion said:

People like you are so fundamentally aged out of any rational discussion and swept up into such reactionary conspiracy theories that you rather have dead trans children than trans youth having their gender affirmed. 

Yikes. Do we need to get into the suicide propaganda too?

 

Michael Bailey, Ph. D and Ray Blanchard, Ph. D — “There is no persuasive evidence that gender transition reduces gender dysphoric children’s likelihood of killing themselves.” 

 

GIDs (The Gender Identity Development Service) themselves — “Young people who are well supported by their family and receiving ongoing psychological support, seem to cope well with their gender incongruence. Similarly, suicide is extremely rare."

https://gids.nhs.uk/professionals/evidence-base/

 

The Suicide Myth

https://www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/

[Communion]

2 minutes ago, CandleGuy said:

Equating the decisions of a grown man and woman to that of a 12 year old tells us all we need to know, you could have stopped here.

Do you feel fine knowing you're a conspiracy theorist radicalized by the most right wing corners of the internet and your own discomforts that draw you to these sex essentialist crank theories won't heal you?

 

You are such a troll that you have to rely on word games and pedantry because you can't actually speak to the medical science and body of evidence over the safety of HRT for trans youth. 

 

I spoke about adults because, despite this allegedly being about children, this thread sees your nazi-lite cohorts disparaging fully grown trans adults as "walking around with open wounds" and other malicious language. Are you going to now fuel a new conspiracy theory that there is a rampant trend of toddlers receiving vaginoplasty and so this mockery of people's genitals as wounds and mutilitation is fine?

 

Again, you can hold the irrational belief that cross sex hormone therapy is unnatural and thus somehow morally wrong, but 97% of those who medically transition being happy in their transition (let alone that those who transition younger apparently end up even more likely to remain transitioned and this is apparently a DANGER!!) means you have to reconcile your views with that you are quite literally arguing that trans joy and existance is unnatural. 

[Assassin]

Literally never heard of this person.

[MusicIsMyMaster]

On 8/23/2023 at 12:59 PM, Mitsouko said:

The Roisin Murphy is not transphobic pls.  She is one of the community’s staunchest allies, the community including trans and non-binary people. God forbid the opinions of a straight white woman in her 50s don’t align exactly with those of people half her age who grew up online and in a nearly opposite social climate from hers. A negative opinion of a singular course of treatment which wasn’t accessible or even considered for most of her lifetime does not equate to trans exclusionary radical feminism. She should know better so by all means be disappointed in her. She can get educated for sure, but y’all need to realize that most people in the real world cannot turn their opinions on and off, switching between ways of thinking on a yearly basis the way the culture makes it seem. She may be a big mouth old crone but you can’t question her allegiance to the LGBT community.

Absolutely this! 

[visions]

31 minutes ago, CandleGuy said:

Equating the decisions of a grown man and woman to that of a 12 year old tells us all we need to know, you could have stopped here.

Of course this is the part of the entire discussion you cherry pick, can you be more transparent? 

 

Not to speak for @Communion but that comparison points out that classifying puberty blockers or gender affirming care in general as “sterilisation” is disgusting. It’s a lot more nuanced than that. 

 

No one calls getting tubes tied “sterilisation”. Or when cis minors receive puberty blockers for precocious puberty. So why do people refer to HRT or puberty blockers as sterilisation in the case of trans youth? 

[Haze]

1 hour ago, vadge said:

I provided like 14 sources, spanning 5 decades. And you?

 

The studies assessed the most effective treatments for children who were classed as dysphoric, not gender nonconforming. Although gender dysphoria in children can only exist alongside and as a result of gender nonconformity. Each study very clearly outlines that they assessed children who were dysphoric and later grew out of their dysphoria without intervention. You're conflating that with gender nonconformity, I suggest reading it again slower.

 

Conflating again. The study was on 'youth who believed they were another gender', and 87.8% of them (boys) overcame their dysphoria when left alone. And even for that remaining 12.2%, a US study from 2022 determined the rate of medical detransition (discontinuing cross sex hormones) among teens and young adults to be 30%.

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-abstract/107/9/e3937/6572526?login=false

 

Just covered medical detransition rates, which is reported to be 30%.

 

And funny that you immediately discredited all my sources on the belief that children who didn't follow up with the clinic were recorded as "cis", but then will confidently and uncritically assert that detransition rates are 3%, as though every detransitioner has followed up with their clinic after being vilified and bullied out of their own communities.

 

 

Puberty blockers are dangerous. Again, reading: 98% of children put on puberty blockers will follow on to cross sex hormones, which teamed with Lupron (puberty blocker) gifts them guaranteed sterility and loss of sexual function.

 

Yikes. Do we need to get into the suicide propaganda too?

 

Michael Bailey, Ph. D and Ray Blanchard, Ph. D — “There is no persuasive evidence that gender transition reduces gender dysphoric children’s likelihood of killing themselves.” 

 

GIDs (The Gender Identity Development Service) themselves — “Young people who are well supported by their family and receiving ongoing psychological support, seem to cope well with their gender incongruence. Similarly, suicide is extremely rare."

https://gids.nhs.uk/professionals/evidence-base/

 

The Suicide Myth

https://www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/

You quote Blanchard, but have you at one point actually read any paper he's written? The most woeful, pseudoscientific methodology. He's a complete hack -- and thus transphobes favourite 'academic'. Not only that, but his experiments with penile arousal were highly unethical. 

 

Also, yes, there have been regrets by those who've medically transitioned, but that pertains to the operation. Sex change operations are still tricky and can cause a lot of complications, of course some will regret that particular aspect of their transitioning. But that does not imply that they regret the hormonal or social transition. Tons of trans people are fine on just HRT. When gender affirming care is denied, you do gamble with people's lives.

 

OT: I find this a very bitter pill to swallow from Roísin -- someone who's very aesthetics and music thrive on and thrive in queerness. I hope someone will be able to have a well reasoned conversation with her.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Haze

[Communion]

1 hour ago, vadge said:

The studies assessed the most effective treatments for children who were classed as dysphoric,

 

The Suicide Myth

https://www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/

The handful of studies you have tried to reference have all been criticized in their methodology because they classified at the time children as dysphoric despite themselves never expressing feelings of dysphoria. Children who "displayed gender incogurent behavior" were deemed dysphoric and grouped in as "dysphoric children" with those who actually expressed things like "I don't wanna be a girl, I want to be a boy". This practice is outdated and does not meet modern medical standards.

 

Someone who is a tomboy and plays sports is NOT considered trans by any medical professional, especially if such a cis girl clearly expresses no desire to be a boy. Such gender noncomfortmity in dress and expression is NOT gender dysphoria and not what any modern medical professional would use in assessing a diagnosis today.

 

That is why this idea of desistance is largely being found to now be a myth. Because you can't reference samples largely made up of people who would never be deemed dysphoric under current medical standards to make broad conclusions on how to treat dysphoria. It's like using studies that were giving chemo to people without cancer to see if chemo is an effective treatment for cancer. 

"One of the most common myths heard in anti-trans hearings is that most trans kids will desist if they are allowed to go through puberty. Sometimes specific numbers are given, such as 80% of trans kids desist. This statistic has been cited as low as 60% and as high as 99% in various legislatures. In Montana, a representative used this statistic to justify passing a medical ban. The Heritage Foundation has also pushed this myth. Nearly every hearing on this topic includes this myth. The desistance myth is one of the most persistent falsehoods and has been used against the trans community for decades. It is misleading and inaccurate as it comes from outdated DSM-4 criteria and decades-old data. Newer studies show that 97.5% of transgender youth are persistent in their gender identities. Let's examine how this falsehood originated, how it is misused, and what current research reveals about the rarity of desistence and detransition."

 

"The DSM-IV, released in 1994, spelled out how to diagnose mental health conditions including “Gender Identity Disorder” (no longer a disorder). In this manual, clinicians made their first attempt to diagnose transgender youth. These first diagnostic criteria were an admiral early attempt, but contained a fatal flaw in how transgender youth were diagnosed: the diagnosis bafflingly did not require a youth to identify as another gender. Instead, it focused on factors such as “preference for cross-sex games and activities” and “preference for friends of the other sex.”

 

"Problems with this diagnostic criteria should be immediately recognizable today: a cisgender tomboy with absolutely no identification as a boy would be diagnosed with gender identity disorder under these definitions. A cisgender boy who likes to put on an Elsa costume and play with girls could be diagnosed with gender identity disorder under these definitions. They were woefully inadequate for judging if youth were transgender. They also came during a time when youth transition did not exist as a medical practice, and so there were no real clinical guidelines on their treatment - thus, little effort was made to change the criteria which were primarily used for discussion in therapist offices and not to support or deny medical transition care.

 

In 2013, the DSM-V was published and in it, many corrections were made on how gender dysphoric youth are diagnosed. The most important correction was the requirement that a transgender youth demonstrate an insistent, persistent, and consistent desire or identification as the gender that the patient believes they are. The individual factors were also changed and adjusted. These diagnostic criteria were much more stringent, and are the diagnostic criteria used today.

There is one problem though: until recently, all of the studies that came out used the old criteria. They included several people with no identification with another gender as meeting the criteria for “gender identity disorder,” which is itself no longer a disorder. These studies have a ton of other other problems as well, such as tiny sample sizes, very high dropout rates, old data from a time when youth transition was impossible, and even issues around conversion therapy practiced on trans patients. There are two pieces that are commonly cited. The first is numerous pieces of research by Ken Zucker, including a famous book published in 1995 that serves as the genesis of most “80% detransition” myths. The second is a series of studies from Thomas Steensma, usually centering around his 2011 or 2013 studies. Both of these studies contain the same core methodological flaw above, and both contain their own unique flaws that make them even more inaccurate.

 

Ken Zucker’s research on transgender youth was performed in 1995, a time when youth could not legally or medically transition. In fact, trans youth in that time likely all “desisted” for some time because of bullying, lack of access to care, and severe repression. I myself grew up as a transgender youth in that time period and I “desisted,” one of the many reasons I am writing this article.

 

Zucker is the genesis of the number that is most often cited, “80% desist from being trans.” Upon review of Ken Zucker’s research, half of Zucker’s patients did not even meet the definition of diagnostic criteria for transgender youth. His main research consisted of only 45 youth utilizing the old diagnostic criteria. A review of his clinic yielded much darker results, however: Zucker was engaging in conversion therapy practices that sought to push trans youth to identify as cisgender. His clinic was promptly shut down in 2015 as a result of a Canadian anti-conversion therapy law. Although Zucker denies the allegations that he engaged in conversion therapy, his practices and history paint a different picture. In the 1990s, he stated support for gay conversion therapy with the rationale, “a homosexual lifestyle in a basically unaccepting culture simply creates unnecessary social difficulties.”

In shutting down his clinic, a Canadian GIC review was conduced and a report was produced.

 

From the report:

Parents state they were encouraged “not to give into” allowing their youth to wear clothes not of their assigned sex at birth.

Parents state they were told to avoid wrongly-gendered toys.

Parents state they were told to ensure their children would play with children of their assigned sex at birth.

Patients state they were asked intrusive questions about their sexual orientations as early as 9 years old.

Transgender youth were pathologized and correlational mental health issues were interpreted as causative.

Some patients reported pictures of them taken without their consent using cell-phones.

Parental lack of acceptance and desire for the child to identify as cisgender guided treatment.

Because of a tiny sample size, outdated data, the impossibility of youth transition, and Zucker’s clear ideological motivations, his 80% detransition rate clearly should be viewed as false and useless in current research on gender affirming care, especially considering modern data, criteria, and research exists.

 

Steensma’s 2011 and 2013 studies had similar issues in his research, which in some ways had even worse methodological flaws. Steensma used the old criteria, which is not the way that gender dysphoria is diagnosed today. Worse, the two studies classified every youth who did not return to the clinic as having “desisted” or “detransitioned” with no long term follow-up. Half of the participants in the studies did not return and all were classified as having “desisted.” The sample sizes were tiny at the getgo - only 53 people were in the first study and 127 in the second study. Given the fact that a large portion if not the majority of Steensma’s patients were classified under decades old criteria and assumed permanently detransitioned simply for refusing to follow up, these studies cannot be used to make any reasonable claim of desistance rates.

 

Furthermore, transgender youth could not meaningfully transition until recently. Medical care for trans youth was highly gatekept if not barred entirely. Transgender youth were rarely, if ever, afforded any form of treatment. Many such youth lost hope in ever being able to transition as puberty took its toll and they were forced to repress over bullying and a dangerous public environment.

 

Modern studies show a much higher persistence rate as well as important factors behind detransition. In 2015, a study was done on thousands of transgender people, including detransitioners. Only 8% of people reported ever detransitioning - ten times lower than the 80% often cited. Of these 2,000 detransitioners, the largest sample size of any study, 62% of them reported that they only detransitioned temporarily. Among the remaining detransitioners, the most common reason for detransitioning given was parental pressure and discrimination. Only 0.4% of people reported detransitioning because they were no longer trans.

 

Among trans youth, desistance and detransition rates are incredibly low. The most recent study in the prestigious journal Pediatrics, one of the only studies that use modern criteria, showed that 97.5% of trans youth continue to identify as trans on a 5 year follow-up. The sample size was also larger than all previous sample sizes of this population: 317 youth."

 

https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/debunked-no-80-of-trans-youth-do

 

Imagine writing "suicide myth" and thinking you're on the right side of history. 

[Headlock]

1 hour ago, vadge said:

Conflating again. The study was on 'youth who believed they were another gender', and 87.8% of them (boys) overcame their dysphoria when left alone. And even for that remaining 12.2%, a US study from 2022 determined the rate of medical detransition (discontinuing cross sex hormones) among teens and young adults to be 30%.

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-abstract/107/9/e3937/6572526?login=false

 

See, you thought you were being slick with a paywalled journal article that you no doubt got from some TERF/LGB forum. Guess what, not only do I have time today, I have access this article through my institution, so let me actually PROVIDE what this article says:

A few fun lil' excerpts for everyones reading pleasure. First, let's discuss adults:

Quote

Most adults who stop gender-affirming hormones report doing so for reasons unrelated to a change in gender identity, such as pressure from family, difficulty obtaining employment, or discrimination (7). Also, discontinuation of gender-affirming hormones does not necessarily represent a failure in treatment or initial decision-making. Some TGD adolescents and adults who start and then discontinue gender-affirming hormones experience use of hormones as an important part of consolidating their gender identity and experience no regret over the use of hormones despite some permanent effects

Now you may say, "bUt, that three sentence abstract told me trans people actually don't exist and are confused and hate their transitions!"

Well:

Quote

However, a portion of TGD individuals who pursue gender-affirming medical or surgical affirmation do express regret over the permanent effects of treatment (5, 9, 10).

So, you're thinking, slam dunk for you, right? Except the very next sentence is:

Quote

In a metanalysis of 7928 TGD individuals who had gender confirmation surgery, 1% expressed regret after surgery (9).

And you want to know that reason?

Quote

The most prevalent reason for regret was psychosocial circumstances, particularly from a lack of social support or negative reactions from family and employers (9)

YOU. YOU are the reason why trans individuals regret transitioning, why they may pursue detransitioning, why they may not seek surgical transitioning or gender-affirming hormone therapy. Because people like YOU make their lives a living hell.

 

You think we're done here? Not even close.

Quote

In a cross-sectional study of a self-selected sample of 27 715 TGD adults in the United States, 61.9% reported a history of social affirmation (ie, changing name, pronouns, appearance), 44.8% reported medical affirmation with hormones, and 19.5% reported surgical affirmation (7).

Now, how many "de-transitioned"?

Quote

A history of stopping affirmation and reverting to living in their sex assigned at birth for at least a little while was more common among people who only engaged in social affirmation (30.8%) than among people who had started medical (9.1%) or surgical (6.9%) affirmation (7).

And you want to know WHY?

Quote

Among TGD adults who stopped affirmation, 82.5% reported at least 1 external factor, such as pressure from family and community or difficulty with employers as a reason to stop and 15.9% reported at least 1 internal factor, such as psychological distress and uncertainty or fluctuation in gender identity as a reason to stop.

PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

Furthermore, in discussing the people who de-transtitioned purposefully:

Quote

Only 5% of people who stopped affirmation reported stopping because they realized that changing gender was no longer desired.

NOW, onto the ~children and young adults~, and how your conflation of a sample size of less than 1k individuals towards the entire population is nonsense. And even then, they DISAGREE with you, and affirm the use of hormones in young adults. And the researchers even provide those reasons for you!

Quote

Our study documented higher gender-affirming hormone continuation rates among transfeminine individuals and by patients who started hormones before reaching the age of legal majority in a population with universal insurance and access to low or no-cost medical and pharmaceutical care.

So, having access and ability... INCREASES retention of hormone use?

Also, an amazingly fun tidbit:

Quote

We noted a higher hormone continuation rate among TGD individuals who were younger than 18 years old at the time of first use of gender-affirming hormones compared with those who were aged 18 years and older when starting hormones. This has not been documented in previous studies.

THEY ARE SHOWING HIGHER RETENTION OF HORMONE USE AMONGST THOSE WHO BEGIN RECEIVING IT BEFORE BECOMING LEGAL ADULTS. Now, you may be thinking why this is? Well:

Quote

The patients who started before turning 18 years would require parental consent for this treatment, whereas those aged 18 years and older do not. Parents who consent to use of gender-affirming hormones likely have a higher level of support for their child’s gender affirmation on average than parents who do not. Parental support plays an important role in the mental health of TGD youth (21). A prior study of adults found that lack of family support for a TGD individual’s gender was associated with a history of discontinuing social or medical gender affirmation (7). Higher parental support may explain the higher continuation rate among patients who start gender-affirming hormones as minors compared with people who start as adults.

BECAUSE THEY WERE SUPPORTED. Because they did not feel pressure from family or society as strongly.

And for the finale, I give you:

Quote

Regardless of the reason for the higher hormone continuation rate among TGD youth, this finding provides support for the idea that TGD individuals below the age of legal majority, with the assistance of their parents or legal guardians and health care providers, can provide meaningful informed assent for gender-affirming hormones and do not appear to be at a higher risk of future discontinuation of gender-affirming hormones because of their young age alone.

YOU DIRECTLY CITED AN ARTICLE, READING ONLY THE SUMMARY, WHICH DIRECTLY DEBUNKS YOUR CLAIMS.

If you want to continue down this path, I will also be happy to provide more from this article discussing limitations based on insurance and sample size 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Headlock

[khalyan]

Medication might be valuable and necessary for one child, but not applicable for another child. TERFs seek to remove these options which obviously does more harm than good for children overall. Overall, people need to realize that medical options need to remain available and discussed properly because not every individual is going to respond to treatment the same.

[Headlock]

1 hour ago, khalyan said:

Medication might be valuable and necessary for one child, but not applicable for another child. TERFs seek to remove these options which obviously does more harm than good for children overall. Overall, people need to realize that medical options need to remain available and discussed properly because not every individual is going to respond to treatment the same.

And with that, you just described: the entire field of medicine