base talk Why was Witness so controversial?

[EtherealCat]

she decided that she didnt want to be hot anymore and went all in on cringe antics

[Illuminati]

She tried to find balance between artsy and charty (in her managers words) and in the end she delivered neither

[Blue Monday]

It wasn’t controversial it was not a good album (though there are some good songs tucked in there).

[Tistotal]

In the time when you should make a meme of yourself to get some atraction of the GP (pretty much what tik tok does nowadays) she made a fool of herself making weird interviews.

Her public image was on the floor, now it's not but people just don't care about her.

 

Also, let's be honest, Witness aesthetic is not good. Her white (I MEAN WHITE) skin color she used as based or whatever it was on her face was weird af, and of course that oxigyn hair didn't help either 

 

In my opinion, all the 3 singles were the right choice, maybe BA solo version but that's it. It just didn't click.

 

btw, is it necessary to make the same thread every three weeks? 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Tistotal

[blueberries]

funny way to say it was bad

[Antikythera]

She was really over exposed, that was the time she should have taken a hiatus. For me she personally started to piss me off when making fun of Britney mental health, a person who did nothing to her and was going through a lot and this adds up to "jokes" she made about other people like Mariah, all unasked for and it went over the edge when she crossed Taylor and tried to make it a pop moment. 

 

Also, she tried to be all woke when in her personal life she seems not woke at all . So, it all adds up for that era being very shallow and "plastic deep". 

 

Having a collab with homophobic people in a terrible song like "Bon Appetite" also didn't help.

 

The whole "Katy, she is so much fun and a dork" got so old and her "woke, now I'm an adult" songs sounded fake. 

 

I think she to this day doesn't have a musical identity outside of her hallmark 2010 pop, problem is her public is older and wanting something less "record company and manager made me do it and I did it because my whole identity is having hits". 

 

She still doesn't have a clue, she kept on saturating her image, no one really cares about her now, she never let people miss her, she is always on somewhere, not even having a kid or the pandemic made her take some time off. 

 

I used to like her, now wherever I see her I roll my eyes. I am so tired of her. I don't wish her gone, but I would like her taking some years off and coming back with her "Ray of Light" moment. Let us miss her. She has so much success, money and she really can take like 2 years really off and she can afford to flop making a more "experimental" (notice the quotes) album. I mean she doesn't need to stop doing pop music, but she can go for a grown up pop that really speaks about something meaningful to her. "Witness" (the song) seemed to be something like that.

[WitnessOblivia]

Katy's image was controversial, the music was not. 

[Power love]

She took a massive break after Prisms & it totally backfired. It’s totally fine if she needed a break but chances are you might be replaced if you don’t come back with something worth wild.

 

She also had a really bad image change along with a terrible album cover. As a stan i was even turn off alone with bad single choices. 
 

swish swish & Hey hey shouldn’t have been recorded they are soo bad wow….

[dumbsparce]

1 hour ago, Happylittlepunk said:

It wasn’t controversial the problem with the album is she alienated her fanbase with her new image/branding. She cut off her hair and started to dress and act like a Karen. That was the worst you could ever do to your image as a pop star. She started to be seen as uncool and Karen like in 2017. She refused to listen to fans and continued to insist on this image throughout the era.   

This took me all the way OUT (no pun intended)

Do you want popstars to scroll through their comment section looking for marketing advice from random fans? And to compromise their own vision no matter how yucky it might be?

Edited August 12, 2023 by dumbsparce

[Bosque]

How was it controversial? Everyone agreed that it was bad 

 

[AvadaKedavra]

1 minute ago, Antikythera said:

She was really over exposed, that was the time she should have taken a hiatus. For me she personally started to piss me off when making fun of Britney mental health, a person who did nothing to her and was going through a lot and this adds up to "jokes" she made about other people like Mariah, all unasked for and it went over the edge when she crossed Taylor and tried to make it a pop moment. 

 

Also, she tried to be all woke when in her personal life she seems not woke at all . So, it all adds up for that era being very shallow and "plastic deep". 

 

Having a collab with homophobic people in a terrible song like "Bon Appetite" also didn't help.

 

The whole "Katy, she is so much fun and a dork" got so old and her "woke, now I'm an adult" songs sounded fake. 

 

I think she to this day doesn't have a musical identity outside of her hallmark 2010 pop, problem is her public is older and wanting something less "record company and manager made me do it and I did it because my whole identity is having hits". 

 

She still doesn't have a clue, she kept on saturating her image, no one really cares about her now, she never let people miss her, she is always on somewhere, not even having a kid or the pandemic made her take some time off. 

 

I used to like her, now wherever I see her I roll my eyes. I am so tired of her. I don't wish her gone, but I would like her taking some years off and coming back with her "Ray of Light" moment. Let us miss her. She has so much success, money and she really can take like 2 years really off and she can afford to flop making a more "experimental" (notice the quotes) album. I mean she doesn't need to stop doing pop music, but she can go for a grown up pop that really speaks about something meaningful to her. "Witness" (the song) seemed to be something like that.

If i were katy i would release a double album or double project some months apart. So, she can go full ARTISTIC and COMMERCIAL. She needs both.
To not dissapear from the charts and have a minicomeback but also to show some edgyness for the first time in her career 
Sadly looks like Capitol and her manager are all Yes-men and they live in the past. They should listen to the fans more.
Im totally sure one of the reasons why Taylor is so successful today is cause she pays attention to the fans. With Taylornation and herself lurking
For years we wanted an alternative project like Folklore and she gave us that. We wanted something special for All-Too Well and she gave us that
We wanted the Re-Recordings faster and she gave us that. She's doin her own thing but pleasing the fans. 


Agree with you. She had something unique with One Of The Boys but then she went full Label-Manufactured with 2010s Teenage Dream and now she's fixated on that
She gave us some maturity with Never Really Over-Harleys In Hawaii but she goes back to her old ways Smile
She's stuck in that cutesy and hallmark vibe and thematic stuff. I wanna know more about her. Different personas 
Can we have a Ray Of Light type of album. I know she has it in her 




 

[??????]

I think everyone was generally hooked when Chained to the Rhythm came out, it sounded a lil more experimental than the usual pop banger machine, but she was in a safe zone at that time..... until the hair cut and Karen-esque antics. 

 

So, yeah. The era was controversial for the branding and PR image, but it also doesn't help that the album has some of the corniest lyrics ever (see: Open sesame...) 

 

Witness IS however my #1 favourite KP album though like minus the lyricism, it was truly AHEAD of its time 

[Badgalbriel]

It was not controversial, it was just bad 

[Escape]

It wasn't. Katy was just cool to hate at that time.

[BrokenMachine]

Witness the album wasn't controversial, the era, the promo campaign and her antics were.

 

She targeted at some politicians during the CTTR performances, which alienated the followers of those politicians, while also being dragged for some other people for acting 'out of touch' in some instances.

 

She tried to joke with Ed Sheeran about how he took the #1 stop away from her on iTunes but it came off as if she was coming for him, same for the 'I haven't shaved my head yet' which was targeted to Britney Spears, and also the time when she compared her old black hair to Barack Obama. The Ellen interview was atrocious, Witness Livestream also was, and she brought up the Taylor controversy 3 years later when no one cared about it anymore.

 

Some performances and the Swish Swish MV were full of already dated memes, which worked for Katy in the past, but it didn't work for her anymore. The HHH MV was so uncalled for too. The collab with homophobic Migos also caused controversy and the glamorization of cannibalism in the MV. All of this without even mentionig her image change.

 

She tried to be seen as a serious artist, and she said she was finally going to do 'purposeful pop' at the start of the era, but it ended up being the same music and a whole mess with her own personality and ego all over the place. Everything could have been better if she stopped trying way too hard as she did in that era. She basically pulled every trick in the book at the same time and the GP just got tired of it, kinda like the way it happened during the ARTPOP era.

Edited August 12, 2023 by BrokenMachine

[Kern]

Because "Chained to the rythm" was too bold of a social statement for pop music and no one was ready for music that makes you THINK\

 

Spoiler

it was the ugly haircut

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by the70s

[Just a Gay on ATRL]

1) Misogyny, first and foremost. There was no reason for people and the media to go SO hard on her. They were ruthless.

 

2) It had been nearly 4 years since PRISM and she hadn’t had a hit in over 3 years. 
 

3) The songs were just underwhelming and disappointing for the wait. The seriousness she was going for on the record did not translate.

[BrokenMachine]

2 hours ago, dumbsparce said:

This took me all the way OUT (no pun intended)

Do you want popstars to scroll through their comment section looking for marketing advice from random fans? And to compromise their own vision no matter how yucky it might be?

Even when I agree with this most of the times, it wasn't just 'marketing advice'. It was a 'Katy please stop with all this BS, it's ending your career', she didn't listen, and it did end her career 

[BrokenMachine]

2 hours ago, Antikythera said:

I think she to this day doesn't have a musical identity outside of her hallmark 2010 pop, problem is her public is older and wanting something less "record company and manager made me do it and I did it because my whole identity is having hits". 

 

She still doesn't have a clue, she kept on saturating her image, no one really cares about her now

I couldn't have worded it better. Her remaining fans want some identity, some substance coming from her after a whole career of 'my whole identity is having hits' but everytime they keep going into the same route over and over of trying to chase a hit or a viral moment. She still can get decent hits, like NRO and HIH, but they need to focus a little more on the arts instead of the charts

Edited August 12, 2023 by BrokenMachine

[PopKills]

3 hours ago, GraceRandolph said:

Prism and OOTB were more controversial with the queerbaiting on the latter and cultural appropriation accusations of the former. 

Tbh it‘s really unfair/problematic to say she was queerbaiting because she never said she was lesbian or anything but just told her experience with kissing girls and how it felt with her background of growing up super christian. Whoever is saying they don’t believe she‘s kissed a girl is part of the problem in the community. 
 

 

OT: Witness wasn‘t controversial it was just a mess of an era. 

[Jon Snow]

BA music video was fine until they cut her hair. She looked good with the long blonde hair, and her body looked amazing.

[Talento]

The "controversies" had nothing to with the music   People don't care about Katy's album tracks like that.

[Relampago.]

It was honestly alot of things but the main thing is that she knew her old teeny bop pop music streak was coming to a quick close, due to the GP moving on to a new sound, ageism, not switching it up after almost a decade, etc. 

 

She promised a different type of album and we saw the results. Everyone realized she was only good for the pop bops but since that sound was dying, so did her career.

[Mystic Boy]

Too many essays here for an album that didnt even have the luxury to be controversial, it was just very very mediocre

What was controversial was her questionable and erratic behavior

[Habibro]

14 hours ago, GraceRandolph said:

Prism and OOTB were more controversial with the queerbaiting on the latter and cultural appropriation accusations of the former. 

Literally no one outside the US gave a **** about the cultural appropriation. Even in the US, the only ones that cared were the chronically online sjw’s