poll COADF vs Midnights - bigger 10th album?

[WildHeart]

1 minute ago, stevyy said:

#6 in 2005 was bigger than #2 in 2022.

???  

[Sonny]

Why do y'all keep comparing that terribly mediocre album that features lyrics such as ''karma is a cat'' to the perfection that is COADF.

[lonnie]

15 minutes ago, Artistofthedecade said:

???  

Probably means there was more competition in that year than in 2022, which would be true. Mariah's huge comeback, Eminem, Coldplay, and that huge Nickelback album.

[nostalgic]

COADF birthed perhaps the best concert tour of all time and didn't have ANY filler. Safe?! Only someone with no knowledge of that time period would say that. While the Dixie Chicks were being cancelled for their comments, Madonna was proudly telling George Bush to go f*** himself  Taylor took no risks with Midnights, half of the album is filler and as radio friendly as you can get. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by nostalgic

[stevyy]

2 minutes ago, lonnie said:

Probably means there was more competition in that year than in 2022, which would be true. Mariah's huge comeback, Eminem, Coldplay, and that huge Nickelback album.

IFPI - 2005

 

01 - 8,3 million - X&Y - Coldply

02 - 7,7 million - TEOM - Mariah Carey

03 - 7,5 million - The Massacre - 50 Cent

04 - 6,8 million - Monkey Business - The Black Eyed Peas

05 - 6,4 million - American Idiot - Green Day

06 - 6,3 million - Confessions on a Dancefloor - Madonna

07 - 6,1 million - Breakaway - Kelly Clarkson

08 - 5,5 million - Curtain Call - Eminem

09 - 5,5 million - Back to Bedlam - James Blunt

10 - 5,4 million - Intensive Care - Robbie Williams

 

COADF sold 6,3 million in 6 weeks. I mean... c'mon. 

[WildHeart]

21 minutes ago, lonnie said:

Probably means there was more competition in that year than in 2022, which would be true. Mariah's huge comeback, Eminem, Coldplay, and that huge Nickelback album.

That's not true at all. Un Verano Sin Ti, biggest streaming album of the streaming era has been released in 2022. The album has almost 15M units already and it will probably double its units over time thanks to its incredible longevity. 

 

2022 also had massive albums from Harry and SZA. 

Top 4 albums of 2022 has 41M units already. Top 4 albums of 2005 have moved 64M units after 18 years... 

 

 

13 minutes ago, stevyy said:

IFPI - 2005

 

01 - 8,3 million - X&Y - Coldply

02 - 7,7 million - TEOM - Mariah Carey

03 - 7,5 million - The Massacre - 50 Cent

04 - 6,8 million - Monkey Business - The Black Eyed Peas

05 - 6,4 million - American Idiot - Green Day

06 - 6,3 million - Confessions on a Dancefloor - Madonna

07 - 6,1 million - Breakaway - Kelly Clarkson

08 - 5,5 million - Curtain Call - Eminem

09 - 5,5 million - Back to Bedlam - James Blunt

10 - 5,4 million - Intensive Care - Robbie Williams

 

COADF sold 6,3 million in 6 weeks. I mean... c'mon. 

Welcome to the streaming era. Albums don't sell huge amounts in a few weeks but over time because one album sale takes 1500 streams to accumulate. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Artistofthedecade

[stevyy]

 

Release Dates: IFPI 2005

 

01 - 8,3 million - X&Y - Coldply ---------------------------------- 6th June, 2005 ----------------- 208 days

02 - 7,7 million - TEOM - Mariah Carey -------------------------- 12th April, 2005 ----------------  263 days

03 - 7,5 million - The Massacre - 50 Cent ----------------------- 3rd March, 2005 ---------------- 303 days

04 - 6,8 million - Monkey Business - The Black Eyed Peas -------25th May, 2005 -----------------220 days

05 - 6,4 million - American Idiot - Green Day -------------------- 20th Speptember, 2004 -------- 365 days

06 - 6,3 million - Confessions on a Dancefloor - Madonna ------- 9th November, 2005 ------------ 52 days

07 - 6,1 million - Breakaway - Kelly Clarkson --------------------- 30th November, 2004 ---------- 365 days

08 - 5,5 million - Curtain Call - Eminem ---------------------------6th December, 2005 ------------ 25 days

09 - 5,5 million - Back to Bedlam - James Blunt ------------------ 11th October, 2004 ------------ 365 days

10 - 5,4 million - Intensive Care - Robbie Williams ---------------- 24th October, 2005 ------------- 68 days

[Popboi.]

37 minutes ago, Sonny said:

Why do y'all keep comparing that terribly mediocre album that features lyrics such as ''karma is a cat'' to the perfection that is COADF.

Now, you know damn well Confessions has it's own collection of clunky lyrics too. "Just go to Texas, isn't that where they golf?"  

[Popboi.]

43 minutes ago, Artistofthedecade said:

???  

[stevyy]

So, let's recap...

 

Madonna landed at #6 on the IFPI top albums list of 2005. Her album sold 6,3 million copies in 52 days. 

 

Taylor landed at #2 in her year of 2022 with 71 days of availability and with streaming. Do we have IFPI figures for 2022?

 

I bet the Swifties will also call Curtain Call which sold 5,5 million copies in 2005 in 25 days of availability less successful than Midnights was in 2022. 

 

It's easy to just look at a placement... it's another thing to see what that number includes. 

 

*All these figures were taken from the official source of the IFPI  and does not include made-up numbers by fans or unofficial websites. 

 

 

[stevyy]

Now, with all the facts presented. I rest my case. The jury of ATRL now has to take the facs into consideration. 

[WildHeart]

4 minutes ago, stevyy said:

So, let's recap...

 

Madonna landed at #6 on the IFPI top albums list of 2005. Her album sold 6,3 million copies in 52 days. 

 

Taylor landed at #2 in her year of 2022 with 71 days of availability and with streaming. Do we have IFPI figures for 2022?

 

I bet the Swifties will also call Curtain Call which sold 5,5 million copies in 2005 in 25 days of availability less successful than Midnights was in 2022. 

 

It's easy to just look at a placement... it's another thing to see what that number includes. 

 

*All these figures were taken from the official source of the IFPI  and does not include made-up numbers by fans or unofficial websites. 

 

 

Per her record label (Universal Music and Republic records) 

 

"six million album equivalent units in eight weeks"

Taylor Swift makes history with six million album sales in eight weeks - NME

[Ms. Togekiss]

Midnights is factually bigger. COADF is subjectively better. Midnights had the better MVs imo

[lonnie]

8 minutes ago, stevyy said:

 

*All these figures were taken from the official source of the IFPI  and does not include made-up numbers by fans or unofficial websites. 

 

 

Screaming

[stevyy]

10 minutes ago, Artistofthedecade said:

That's not true at all. Un Verano Sin Ti, biggest streaming album of the streaming era has been released in 2022. The album has almost 15M units already and it will probably double its units over time thanks to its incredible longevity. 

 

2022 also had massive albums from Harry and SZA. 

Top 4 albums of 2022 has 41M units already. Top 4 albums of 2005 have moved 64M units after 18 years... 

 

 

Welcome to the streaming era. Albums don't sell huge amounts in a few weeks but over time because one album sale takes 1500 streams to accumulate. 

That's the problem with the Swifties... individual members of your kind introduce individual - contradictory - arguments and it is hard to address all your ideas at once as they are spread out after the previous idea was debunked. 

 

So, you say that it's not the individual IFPI placement now, but better for an album to take longer to amass its sales...

 

6,3 million in 2005 and a good 4 million since 2005 then. There is no official ifpi supported total for any Madonna album based on streaming-sales. 

 

I want to further remark that the music industry in 2022 was bigger in revenue than it was in 2005. 

 

2005 - $20,1 billion

2022 - $31,2 billion

 

In a worse climate... Madonna did so much more? 

[State of Grace.]

I prefer COADF by miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiles but Midnights is definitely the bigger album. 

[stevyy]

5 minutes ago, Artistofthedecade said:

Per her record label (Universal Music and Republic records) 

 

"six million album equivalent units in eight weeks"

Taylor Swift makes history with six million album sales in eight weeks - NME

with a grain of salt, I can accept that number (label claims are usually dismissed when the artist it concerns is Mariah Carey, ie TEOM), anyway accepting this number means, she sold less than COADF, needed more time to sell less, landed higher on the IFPI list in a year which was 36% bigger than 2005 was. I am beyond shocked by the conclusive evidence in favor of Madonna.

 

I hope the ATRL jury can take this into consideration. 

[stevyy]

Just now, State of Grace. said:

I prefer COADF by miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiles but Midnights is definitely the bigger album. 

said someone who has not taken into consideration the facts as they were presented in this thread. a pity.

[WildHeart]

Just now, stevyy said:

That's the problem with the Swifties... individual members of your kind introduce individual - contradictory - arguments and it is hard to address all your ideas at once as they are spread out after the previous idea was debunked. 

 

So, you say that it's not the individual IFPI placement now, but better for an album to take longer to amass its sales...

 

6,3 million in 2005 and a good 4 million since 2005 then. There is no official ifpi supported total for any Madonna album based on streaming-sales. 

 

I want to further remark that the music industry in 2022 was bigger in revenue than it was in 2005. 

 

2005 - $20,1 billion

2022 - $31,2 billion

 

In a worse climate... Madonna did so much more? 

You said that we shouldn't use units bacause sales climate changed over time (this includes the fact that albums accumulate units in a longer period now) 

 

Because of that we used IFPI replacements to compare them to their own sales climate (pure sales vs pure sales, streaming vs streaming) 

 

After that, you claimed that #6 in 2005 is bigger than #2 in 2022 because... it moved more units. 

 

You are contradicting with yourself. If you will compare 2005 units to 2022 units, why don't you compare their overall units as well? 

[stevyy]

1 minute ago, Artistofthedecade said:

You said that we shouldn't use units bacause sales climate changed over time (this includes the fact that albums accumulate units in a longer period now) 

 

Because of that we used IFPI replacements to compare them to their own sales climate (pure sales vs pure sales, streaming vs streaming) 

 

After that, you claimed that #6 in 2005 is bigger than #2 in 2022 because... it moved more units. 

 

You are contradicting with yourself. If you will compare 2005 units to 2022 units, why don't you compare their overall units as well? 

looking at the market size: 2022 more than a third bigger than in 2005, opened the conversation to units. 

[State of Grace.]

5 minutes ago, stevyy said:

said someone who has not taken into consideration the facts as they were presented in this thread. a pity.

The facts in question = UKMix'd pure sales, yeah no thanks

[WildHeart]

7 minutes ago, stevyy said:

looking at the market size: 2022 more than a third bigger than in 2005, opened the conversation to units. 

Market size's growth doesn't mean that top albums of today sell more than top albums of 2005.

 

Biggest reason of market growth comes from the booming old catalogues. Old music makes 70% of today's music consumption so if anything, it is even more beneficial to old music than music of 2022.

 

https://variety.com/vip/the-booming-business-of-music-catalog-sales-1235519399/

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2023-01-09/-shallow-catalog-is-the-fastest-growing-business-in-music

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rollingstone.com/pro/features/music-catalogs-value-keeps-rising-could-it-change-the-face-of-the-entire-industry-1056229/amp/

Edited July 26, 2023 by Artistofthedecade

[stevyy]

I'm typing this very slowly now, so that everyone can follow: For 2005 or an album released in 2005 accumulating 6,3 million copies (pure sales bc streaming did not exist) and being the 6th biggest album of that year when the entire music industry was 1/3 smaller than it was in 2022 is / was a groundbreaking achievement. The fact that Madonna did that in 52 days is even bigger. Taylor sold less, needed longer to sell less and had a bigger music industry in 2022 than Madonna had in 2005. 

 

This warrants the ifpi ranking useless in determining which album was bigger as that evidence points towards Madonna anyway.

 

Streaming cannot be a deciding factor because it was introduced long after COADF was released. 

 

I came into this thread saying that such a comparison does not make much sense because the time in which each album was released is so vastly different in the way music was / is consumed. But the aggressive downgrading by the Swifties made me engage with their points...

 

Now, everything they claimed could be debunked by their own introduction of the IFPI list. 

 

I rest my case now because everything's been sad and people who still vote for or comment that "it's obviously Taylor whose album is bigger" show no respect to the facts, the reality - our commonly shared reality - and should therefore be accepted as a belief or feeling and not a fact because the facts showed that it must be Madonna. 

 

Case closed. Gimme a new one.

[Popboi.]

20 minutes ago, stevyy said:

So, let's recap...

 

Madonna landed at #6 on the IFPI top albums list of 2005. Her album sold 6,3 million copies in 52 days. 

 

Taylor landed at #2 in her year of 2022 with 71 days of availability and with streaming. Do we have IFPI figures for 2022?

 

I bet the Swifties will also call Curtain Call which sold 5,5 million copies in 2005 in 25 days of availability less successful than Midnights was in 2022. 

 

It's easy to just look at a placement... it's another thing to see what that number includes. 

 

*All these figures were taken from the official source of the IFPI  and does not include made-up numbers by fans or unofficial websites. 

 

Using Curtain Call as to prove a point doesn't make sense as most of it's sales came from after 2005 (especially now as it eats up the streams of most of Eminem's hits), Confessions sold next to nothing after a couple of years and Midnights CLEARLY will do better in the 2023 IFPI than Confessions' in 2006. #2 followed up by an inevitable top 10 second year > #6 and OUT on the second.

 

[stevyy]

9 minutes ago, State of Grace. said:

The facts in question = UKMix'd pure sales, yeah no thanks

are you aware that you have degraded yourself with that statement? I was rooting for you to consider the facts - our commonly shared reality - I guess not.