MingYouToo Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 1 minute ago, Bey'Knight said: Ah ok. You are referring to their upcoming team-ups but i get your point. It’s ironic, for an industry that’s notorious for beating a proven method to death, they sure deviated from phase 1-3 for subsequent phases. Then again, Hollywood biggest hubris is always assuming bigger = better. Tbh i think no matter what, fatigue was bound to set in. There’s only so many chatacters, so many worlds, so many timelines that audience can digest. They should’ve put MCU on hiatus after the events of endgame and return in like 5 years with a new slate, giving everyone a chance to miss them. Now there’s less focus and no end in sight. The marquee characters are retired or dead. Why should i stay invested in another globetrotting expedition that will be available on streaming in 2 months anyway? While I see your point, I disagree with the bolded text. Time and time again the box office has proven that superhero movies are the new scifi/action/horror, there will ALWAYS be an audience for them. The only issue is that the quality is just NOT there in the slightest. The problem with Marvel Studios is they still expect a level of audience loyalty and behavior the way the audiences acted for the Infinity Saga, the realistic answer is no they can't. They are expecting the audience to watch every installment of every project to 'synergize' their audience but the reality is this is a brand new slate. For a brand new slate to work they need to make genuinely good movies, and for the most part they... failed. Look at Doctor Strange 2, biggest hyped movie of 2022 bar Avatar 2, would've been an easy 1.5B seller if they delivered on what was promised. Yet they didn't, butchered Wanda's story, put the titular character in the background and lacked in the multiverse aspect. Now on the other hand, you have Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3. An absolute record smasher. It may not be a billion seller but it went above and beyond predictions, and because of what? Because its just a genuinely good film. And its like 8 characters smashed into a single movie, and yet they are all beloved. Because they were all well written. I agree that the MCU shouldn't do bigger = better because that is just objectively wrong. But I disagree in saying that fatigue is setting in. Fatigue exists because of bad movies. Point blank. If a movie is good, the audience will always tune in. There is an end goal though and frankly the reason why people demand to see it is because they're not enjoying the movies as isolated entities. Its partly Marvel's fault because if Black Widow all the way to Guardians 3 were all enjoyable movies I highly doubt people care about the end goal. A good superhero movie will always have an audience. And we need to stop setting 1B expectations for every MCU IP. The Phase 3 streak of 6 1B movies was because of great storytelling, investment and worldbuilding the past 2 phases. Marvel Studios is skipping on that and thats why they're flopping. With regards to streaming, I think its irrelevant in the grand scheme of box office because a 2-3 month delay is big enough to get all the necessary returns in box office gross. The BO gains its money from big IPs in the first month or two anyways. The issue is and has always been QUALITY. A good MCU movie will always sell, a bad MCU movie might sell. This is where they're messing up. 1
Bey'Knight Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 17 minutes ago, MingYouToo said: While I see your point, I disagree with the bolded text. Time and time again the box office has proven that superhero movies are the new scifi/action/horror, there will ALWAYS be an audience for them. The only issue is that the quality is just NOT there in the slightest. The problem with Marvel Studios is they still expect a level of audience loyalty and behavior the way the audiences acted for the Infinity Saga, the realistic answer is no they can't. They are expecting the audience to watch every installment of every project to 'synergize' their audience but the reality is this is a brand new slate. For a brand new slate to work they need to make genuinely good movies, and for the most part they... failed. Look at Doctor Strange 2, biggest hyped movie of 2022 bar Avatar 2, would've been an easy 1.5B seller if they delivered on what was promised. Yet they didn't, butchered Wanda's story, put the titular character in the background and lacked in the multiverse aspect. Now on the other hand, you have Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3. An absolute record smasher. It may not be a billion seller but it went above and beyond predictions, and because of what? Because its just a genuinely good film. And its like 8 characters smashed into a single movie, and yet they are all beloved. Because they were all well written. I agree that the MCU shouldn't do bigger = better because that is just objectively wrong. But I disagree in saying that fatigue is setting in. Fatigue exists because of bad movies. Point blank. If a movie is good, the audience will always tune in. There is an end goal though and frankly the reason why people demand to see it is because they're not enjoying the movies as isolated entities. Its partly Marvel's fault because if Black Widow all the way to Guardians 3 were all enjoyable movies I highly doubt people care about the end goal. A good superhero movie will always have an audience. And we need to stop setting 1B expectations for every MCU IP. The Phase 3 streak of 6 1B movies was because of great storytelling, investment and worldbuilding the past 2 phases. Marvel Studios is skipping on that and thats why they're flopping. With regards to streaming, I think its irrelevant in the grand scheme of box office because a 2-3 month delay is big enough to get all the necessary returns in box office gross. The BO gains its money from big IPs in the first month or two anyways. The issue is and has always been QUALITY. A good MCU movie will always sell, a bad MCU movie might sell. This is where they're messing up. I get your point too but i have to disagree with the premise that quality is directly proportional to box office returns. That’s giving both audience and studio too much credit imo and rather binary. Quality is just one of the facets that influence BO. There’s a reason why trend are created and sustain n fade out over time. A Blaxploitation movie that would’ve set BO on fire in the 70s would’ve been ahead of its time the prior decade. There are movies that are unappreciated at the time of release but go on to become enduring cult classics down the line. The MCU was a shiny new thing in phase 1, experienced exponential growth in phase 2 and became juggernaut by phase 3. With its universe forced to expand in all directions to produce content, there’s only so much you can do creatively. The novelty factor had waned. The fight sequences or CGI that impressed viewers will not suffice in phase 5. These movies are built on spectacle and there’s nothing spectacular about recycling that’s why the budgets get bigger to outdo past work aka bigger = better mentality. The part you bolded is specific to MCU because of its interconnected universe. Other movies only share a genre at a basic level. MCU films and tv are marketed on the strength of their interconnection. I dont believe the average viewer is willing to invest 9 different yet connected projects within one year duration. 1
MingYouToo Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 9 minutes ago, Bey'Knight said: I get your point too but i have to disagree with the premise that quality is directly proportional to box office returns. That’s giving both audience and studio too much credit imo and rather binary. Quality is just one of the facets that influence BO. There’s a reason why trend are created and sustain n fade out over time. A Blaxploitation movie that would’ve set BO on fire in the 70s would’ve been ahead of its time the prior decade. There are movies that are unappreciated at the time of release but go on to become enduring cult classics down the line. The MCU was a shiny new thing in phase 1, experienced exponential growth in phase 2 and became juggernaut by phase 3. With its universe forced to expand in all directions to produce content, there’s only so much you can do creatively. The novelty factor had waned. The fight sequences or CGI that impressed viewers will not suffice in phase 5. These movies are built on spectacle and there’s nothing spectacular about recycling that’s why the budgets get bigger to outdo past work aka bigger = better mentality. The part you bolded is specific to MCU because of its interconnected universe. Other movies only share a genre at a basic level. MCU films and tv are marketed on the strength of their interconnection. I dont believe the average viewer is willing to invest 9 different yet connected projects within one year duration. Yeah honestly after reading I see your point. Thanks for the introspective sis! We'll see though. Maybe my opinions are because of my optimism, the MCU was my childhood and as a young professional I'm still a big fan. I hope whatever they do they course correct and still thrive because fans like me still need them! 1
Life Savers Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 Well, duh. There's still a chance to course correct, though.
Johnny Jacobs Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 5 hours ago, Machete said: Movies like TLM would have been a hands down success had the budget not randomly been +200M Do you think that they chose to pay higher for the budget? They needed the budget to make it. They won't spend an extra dime morw than necessary
Machete Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 8 minutes ago, Johnny Jacobs said: Do you think that they chose to pay higher for the budget? They needed the budget to make it. They won't spend an extra dime morw than necessary Uh they def spend frivolous amount of money. No one is expecting the movies to be made for 50M but 250M for TLM was ridiculous. Aladdin was 183M which is fine. The new Indiana Jones movie is +300M Disney can def be cutting down costs and it is evident by them now saying they will.
Bey'Knight Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 6 hours ago, MingYouToo said: Yeah honestly after reading I see your point. Thanks for the introspective sis! We'll see though. Maybe my opinions are because of my optimism, the MCU was my childhood and as a young professional I'm still a big fan. I hope whatever they do they course correct and still thrive because fans like me still need them! I hear you I’m still perched for coven of chaos, come what may
Pink Ranger Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 For marvel 2 movies a year and 2 shows a year is all that’s needed tbh February - tv show may - film august - tv show November - film
ctlp27 Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 (edited) TV is diluting premium IP. Like DC, they should only put unrelated content there, no multiverse, no MCU characters, no Star Wars Skylwalker saga era. I don't know why it's that complicated, the IP is stronge enough to initiate viewers on platform, it's not like box office. SW universe is so big, so rich, so long, yet everything is awlays in that little 50 years span. Kenobi was awful to watch (should have been a movie spin off like Rogue One because Obi-Wan is a premium character). Marvel shows have been mostly boring and lazy to watch. What works for movies (hire yes-writers and directors to maintain creative control) really doesn't work on a 6 or 8 episodes shows. Disney has been lazy in investing money and trusting creators (except for Andor) and I don't think it's the amount of new shows that is creating the fatigue but the fact that 90% are either boring or bad. Edited July 14, 2023 by ctlp27
mystery Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 12 minutes ago, Baby Judas said: likeee... how? Imagine spending that much on that...
Lovett Posted July 14, 2023 Author Posted July 14, 2023 38 minutes ago, Baby Judas said: likeee... how? Absolute lunacy. Why on earth would they waste so much money?!
loveisdead9582 Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 … I get putting out less shows (who the **** asked for an Echo show? She wasn’t a particularly great part of Hawkeye and she’s not a very popular comic character) and focusing on quality (She-Hulk, Book of Boba Fett) but a drop in money spent when a big complaint has been how cheap the CGI looks in some of the shows and movies is not it. Focusing on quality and producing shows/movies that people actually WANT to see would be a good start.
Raptus Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 TV shows are not the problem - Loki was literally the only good Marvel content in last 3 years.
XAMJ Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 Bob Iger in 2020, everyone gets a show *everyone celebrates* Big Iger in 2023, less is more *everyone celebrates* Marvel & Star Wars are in this mess because of him
Life Savers Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 4 hours ago, loveisdead9582 said: … I get putting out less shows (who the **** asked for an Echo show? She wasn’t a particularly great part of Hawkeye and she’s not a very popular comic character) and focusing on quality (She-Hulk, Book of Boba Fett) but a drop in money spent when a big complaint has been how cheap the CGI looks in some of the shows and movies is not it. Focusing on quality and producing shows/movies that people actually WANT to see would be a good start. You have a point but the CGI issue isn't (primarily) a matter of money; it's that the animators/artists are overworked. Indeed, if they were able to focus on fewer, higher-quality projects with more extended deadlines, the quality of the CGI would be better regardless of budget.
Novacaine Posted July 15, 2023 Posted July 15, 2023 (edited) RIP Star Wars. The live action shows already look like fan made films aside from Andor. I’m still not over how low effort Obi-Wan Kenobi looked when it was arguably one of the most anticipated streaming shows of all time and meant to be a flagship show for Disney+. Edited July 15, 2023 by Novacaine
loveisdead9582 Posted July 15, 2023 Posted July 15, 2023 4 hours ago, Life Savers said: You have a point but the CGI issue isn't (primarily) a matter of money; it's that the animators/artists are overworked. Indeed, if they were able to focus on fewer, higher-quality projects with more extended deadlines, the quality of the CGI would be better regardless of budget. You’re not totally wrong. I feel like it’s a little of column and and a little of column b. I vaguely recall (and I might be misremembering here) someone that said the money wasn’t great and that one of the executives was a nightmare to work under for those over the cgi. Trying to cram so many projects into a release schedule is not helpful either. It overworks the employees and isn’t conducive to quality work.
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