Communion Posted July 3, 2023 Posted July 3, 2023 19 hours ago, Horizon Flame said: Affirmative Action was intended to be temporary. That’s how it was able to get through in the first place. It was never constitutional. However, over time, it was deemed third rail politics and no one wanted to take it on. 3 hours ago, banterfly said: People like her are one of the reasons why the majority of the US are against AA. The majority of Americans are not against race conscious policies lol. Pollsters have to ask "do you agree with SCOTUS deciding it is unconstitutional for race to be why students are accepted into colleges?" to get to such support. This framing of course not being what affirmative action is.
banterfly Posted July 3, 2023 Posted July 3, 2023 24 minutes ago, Communion said: The majority of Americans are not against race conscious policies lol. Pollsters have to ask "do you agree with SCOTUS deciding it is unconstitutional for race to be why students are accepted into colleges?" to get to such support. This framing of course not being what affirmative action is. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/06/08/more-americans-disapprove-than-approve-of-colleges-considering-race-ethnicity-in-admissions-decisions/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/04/26/u-s-public-continues-to-view-grades-test-scores-as-top-factors-in-college-admissions/ Also remember that after California repealed AA they tried to put it back, but people said no. 1
monologueNacafe Posted July 3, 2023 Posted July 3, 2023 22 hours ago, banterfly said: No, we have non-discrimination laws for that. AA is positive discrimination- giving more opportunity to certain groups. It's far from ensuring "equality" because it based on demographic rather than merit. I hate when people like you (who know absolutely nothing) come on here and spew nonsense 1
Sannie Posted July 3, 2023 Posted July 3, 2023 Considering AA has always been framed as "giving uneducated, unqualified black people spots over educated, qualified white people," it's no wonder so many hate it. And considering it has helped so many people who are not men, both white and non-white, this ruling is going to affect so many of the very people who have fought to have it struck down.
banterfly Posted July 3, 2023 Posted July 3, 2023 33 minutes ago, monologueNacafe said: I hate when people like you (who know absolutely nothing) come on here and spew nonsense Which part is nonsense? Affirmative action, positive action and positive discrimination are the same thing. If you think that's nonsense, then send a letter to the editors of Oxford dictionary and lawmakers who wrote the Equality act of 2010. 1
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted July 3, 2023 ATRL Moderator Posted July 3, 2023 4 hours ago, banterfly said: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/06/08/more-americans-disapprove-than-approve-of-colleges-considering-race-ethnicity-in-admissions-decisions/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/04/26/u-s-public-continues-to-view-grades-test-scores-as-top-factors-in-college-admissions/ Also remember that after California repealed AA they tried to put it back, but people said no. After California abolished AA, diversity California schools saw a massive plummet and half a billion dollars spent towards correcting it with alternative approaches still hasn’t done the job. https://www.npr.org/2023/06/30/1185226895/heres-what-happened-when-affirmative-action-ended-at-california-public-colleges Also, pointing out that Americans don’t like programs that aim to help marginalized people is not the slam dunk of an argument you think it is.
Rebel Lion Posted July 5, 2023 Posted July 5, 2023 Either way the admissions process is still severely flawed. I know some sus people who are now doctors.
Rican Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 As a Latino I have benefited from Affirmative Action. I however also witness the flaws of it because I have interned at a law firm and they always seem to accept the POC interns and after time it showed that they weren’t always the most qualified because their worked showed it and for some odd reason they were never let go. It was a bit unfair because their work flaws was being corrected by others. It was always rumored that some business get bonuses for diversity in the work place. 1
Cyanide Posted July 12, 2023 Posted July 12, 2023 The people who hate AA never have an issue with legacy admissions even though it’s literally what they claim AA is. Just say you don’t think colored people should be in high leveled institutions. Btw I have a degree from a top 20 university that I was perfectly qualified to get into so don’t come for me
Aethereal Posted July 15, 2023 Posted July 15, 2023 On 7/2/2023 at 6:29 PM, Communion said: You don't seem to understand how AA worked. It was the idea that, when faced with students of equal merit, the school should pick the student from a demographic that is under-represented in their current student body. It was only "discriminatory" against Asian American students in schools where Asian Americans were already overwhelmingly represented (there is a question of how class was more dominant to people's own identities than race when considering how particularly affluent Asian Americans historically showed little interest in HBCUs & MSIs that have been deemed as somehow serving a lesser-achieving rank of students than elite colleges.) White women benefited the most from this policy when their womanhood was what considered them an under-represented demographic, given the long history of academia being an institute for men and men only. It benefited White Women but was being 'discriminatory' towards Asian Americans? It was neutral with Asian Americans and was not affecting them in particular. White Women get tuition support from their parents just as much as their brothers. And there is also the tradition that (a significant minority if not most) women in general expect their male partner to pay all of their bills and not split them.
Communion Posted July 15, 2023 Posted July 15, 2023 Just now, Aristotle said: was being 'discriminatory' towards Asian American The scare quotes used in my post means, no, it was not discriminatory.
Vermillion Posted July 16, 2023 Author Posted July 16, 2023 I’m honestly waiting to comment much further on this subject until I see the results of the new court case against legacies once it reaches SCOTUS, all hypotheticals aside. Even if that takes years.
imabadkid Posted July 16, 2023 Posted July 16, 2023 On 7/6/2023 at 12:43 PM, Rican said: As a Latino I have benefited from Affirmative Action. I however also witness the flaws of it because I have interned at a law firm and they always seem to accept the POC interns and after time it showed that they weren’t always the most qualified because their worked showed it and for some odd reason they were never let go. It was a bit unfair because their work flaws was being corrected by others. It was always rumored that some business get bonuses for diversity in the work place. Yep. It’s the same in my field… there’s very little diversity and I’ve had White coworkers make comments about how Latino or Asian coworkers (there’s hardly any African Americans in my field) only get to slide by and not get fired due to AA and “diversity quotas”. This thinking IMO is problematic because all of these systems were built by old white men… of course the people who are going to excel in them is that exact group. So however people chose to look at it whatever each industry needs to do to ensure there is real diversity and a level playing field it needs to be done, I don’t care how they get there.
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