discussion Hunter Schafer (Euphoria) gets lashed for liking IG post dragging nonbinary people

[DanyelP23]

 

 

Thoughts? (Preferably if there are any trans or nb folks here on ATRL, their opinion would be the most welcome)

Please keep it cute and civil.

[Power love]

[Hurem]

Nothing said in the post is incorrect.

[Kylizzle]

I used to feel this way, but the perspective really doesn't hold water. I guarantee anti-trans legislation isn't because of some random nonbinary people on the internet. If you log off you'll find most people (particularly 35+) still don't know what NB even is. The reason we're seeing so much anti-trans legislation is because trans people are an effective boogeyman to scare rural America and raise those fundraising dollars, plus anti-trans content produces a lot of money for political content farms. I think in general a lot of problems would be resolved between the NBs and the binary trans people if we could just agree that being nonbinary and being transgender in the medical, diagnosed with gender dysphoria sense are different. 

[Miracle]

1 minute ago, Hurem said:

Nothing said in the post is incorrect.

Yes, absolutely everything is. 

 

Here in Spain you can be considered your gender without going through medical transition (and have a change of ID etc) but also have easy access to hormone treatments. The problem relies on regular healthcare in the US and what conservatives believe should and should not be included in "affordable" healthcare

 

[Headlock]

Omg not Jordan Volness, I’ve been following them since their YouTube days 

[Jaguarqueef]

Meh, she’s just finding an easy scapegoat, NB people, which weren’t a large minority until at least the 2000s

 

The backlash against trans people would’ve have appeared regardless if BlueSock Ray started a Tumblr trend in the late 2000s.

[XAMJ]

This is such a complex subject , it was only a matter of time before this happened. 

[Uncatena]

Quote

 

it's incredibly nauseating to read these statements from a trans person that so confidently throw nonbinary people under the bus for fascist policies, and claiming it to be "gender abolition going too far", i promise you, fascists didn't come to this conclusion from being pro gender
abolition, they genuinely just see all trans people (including nonbinary people) as subhuman. the systemic & societal oppression trans people face is because of fascist ideologies. hunter schafer liked & commented on that post, making her a
transmedicalist, transmedicalism requires trans people of all kinds to medically transition, or they're not valid. not everyone can or wants to medically transition, it doesn't take away from their identity as a trans person. this includes any
nonbinary person who receives gender affirming medical care, or not. there is also a comment about since gender affirming medical care is often paid out of pocket, this "forces more trans people into sex work". *ALL* work is exploitative and abusive by design, singling out sex work as a uniquely "bad" form of work, is bad, this is a common talking point used by SWERFs, so i'm not surprised it's being used by a transmedicalist. there IS total truth to Black trans people specifically not receiving equal access to gender affirming medical care. this is due to systemic and societal racism & transphobia from fascist policies, not nonbinary people who don't seek gender affirming medical care. being trans is as simple as you thinking your assigned gender doesn't align with what you feel, and it goes as far as receiving gender affirming medical care. it doesn't matter where you fall on this spectrum, but it DOES matter that we have solidarity with one another against a fascist system. **** that post. ALL trans identities are valid, ALL fascist ideologies are evil.

 

 

via Kel Lauren, saying it better than I could. **** Hunter. **** Jordan.  

[jpsketch]

people will find any reason to be up in arms. next.

[zasderfght]

I'm not trans, so it's not really my place to comment on the clash between nonbinary and trans folks. 

 

What I will say is that I wish the in-fighting in minority groups would stop. There is strength in numbers, and at the end of the day, there are countries that still lynch cis gay folks. 

[Arthoe]

How Buck Angel of her

[Jynx672]

Why are non-binary people considered trans all of a sudden? Because it's trendy to carry the they/them label without going through HRT and surgery?

[Archetype]

I love Hunter, but this is just a really selfish, bad opinion to have that does nothing but attempt to silence another oppressed minority.  It's also another example of a societally deemed "famous beautiful passing trans woman" othering a group that tends not to fall in line with societal beauty standards.

 

Most people don't even know what a NB person is, and conservatives are not willing to budge on their definition of gender.  They don't accept the ideas of gender neutrality or transgenderism.  Trans and NB communities aren't doing anything in particular to make conservatives hate them other than simply existing.  Blaming one or the other does absolutely nothing.

[Beyonnaise]

I feel like this is a complex conversation that descends into mudslinging of labels like "transmedicalist" on Twitter (because it's easier to drag individual people than unpack complicated ideas) rather than addressing the topic at hand. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

 

The idea that transphobic policies are the result of nonbinary people muddying the waters and confusing people is... far-fetched. That would have to be predicated on binary trans people already having a high level of acceptance, which they never have. Most people older than Millennials do not understand the difference between binary/non-binary trans identities. People have always been transphobic, but the reason transphobia is the flavor of the month right now is for a few reasons: the GOP hand-picking it as the new culture war after they lost power in 2020, British TERFs like JK Rowling spreading their ideas to the general public, and just greater general awareness of trans people (ironically from media representation like Hunter on Euphoria) creating a conservative backlash.

 

Now on the other hand, I think binary trans people are entitled to feel like their identities are uniquely disadvantaged, as a lot of non-binary people will never pursue hormone intervention and many pass as their gender assigned at birth. Obviously it's more nuanced than this, because there are NB people who do pursue medical intervention. NB people also do face a lion's share of the misgendering that happens simply because "they/them" usage is less common in everyday lexicon of most people. But it's undoubtedly true that an AMAB person identifying and presenting as woman is more oppressed in everyday society than a nonbinary person who might have some fashion-based queer-coded signifiers, but still passes as their birth gender. Binary trans people should be able to center their medical needs in the fight for trans rights because that's what's on the chopping block right now. I can understand the frustration of binary trans people like Hunter but NB people also aren't "the enemy" though, and transphobic policies hurt everyone involved.

 

Generally, I think if we really want to have a liberated world for gender expression, we should be able to acknowledge the different privileges and disadvantages different groups face and not scapegoat specific people as evil. Twitter is obviously the worst place possible to make any progress on this though.

[Trent W]

The left is literally eating itself

 

 

[Karla Cabello]

this seem like a very tone deaf point of view. how you plan to abolish gender yet you say everyone must conform to the binary 

[SmittenCake]

24 minutes ago, Jynx672 said:

Why are non-binary people considered trans all of a sudden? Because it's trendy to carry the they/them label without going through HRT and surgery?

what I'm wondering too 

[Uncatena]

19 minutes ago, Jynx672 said:

Why are non-binary people considered trans all of a sudden? Because it's trendy to carry the they/them label without going through HRT and surgery?

*Since always. Non-binary people don’t identify with their assigned gender. Also there are binary trans people who don’t do HRT or surgery, this argument has literally no weight.

 

And I promise, this made up of image of an edgy Twitter user using they/them pronouns “for fun” is just that: made up. It’s a minuscule non-factor of people. This is what TERFS and transphobes want you to think. 

[Karla Cabello]

2 minutes ago, Trent W said:

The left is literally eating itself

 

 

so enby and trans people are automatically left wing? most of them would have been sent to the gulag on the urss 

[PrettyHurts]

47 minutes ago, Kylizzle said:

I used to feel this way, but the perspective really doesn't hold water. I guarantee anti-trans legislation isn't because of some random nonbinary people on the internet. If you log off you'll find most people (particularly 35+) still don't know what NB even is. The reason we're seeing so much anti-trans legislation is because trans people are an effective boogeyman to scare rural America and raise those fundraising dollars, plus anti-trans content produces a lot of money for political content farms. I think in general a lot of problems would be resolved between the NBs and the binary trans people if we could just agree that being nonbinary and being transgender in the medical, diagnosed with gender dysphoria sense are different. 

this

 

blaming nb for transphobia is such nonsense  those ppl were going to hate trans ppl regardlesss 

[bad guy]

She isn't the only trans person to feel like non-binary people have co-opted the trans movement and are trying to lump themselves with trans people without doing the work it takes to transition. I have a few trans friends that feel this way. But I'm not trans so my opinion on this isn't really relevant. 

[ZIVERT]

The only thing that I can say is that letting black trans women be the voice of the community over the white, buzzcut, button up floral shirt variety of enby with their annoying social media infographics would definitely be much better for the community.

[meangreen11]

17 minutes ago, Jynx672 said:

Why are non-binary people considered trans all of a sudden? Because it's trendy to carry the they/them label without going through HRT and surgery?

Exactly this. It’s the lowest cost of entry into the Queer umbrella these days so you end up with a mix of people who do truly identify as NB mixed in with people joining as a fad and to be able to feel more unique. Some argue “the more the merrier” while others see it as performative for attention. It’s similar to the early 00’s when it was as “cool” for girls to say they were bi for a little while for attention and then quietly drop it and move back to their otherwise boring cishet lives.
 

It creates an unfortunate sense of dismissiveness for people who actually identify as such. We still see people deny that bisexuality is a real thing as a result of that old fad. We see the same dismissiveness now towards NB. 
 

It’s extremely easy for a guy to throw on a skirt and say “look at me, I’m so quirky!” ala Harry Styles, and then expect the same treatment and outpouring of support as someone who is ftm or mtf and can’t fly under the radar when they want. And honestly, we all know damn well a large portion of folks currently using the NB label will forget about it in a year or two (or less in the case of Demi) when it isn’t as trendy. Their performances do nothing more than cause true experiences to be dismissed as a result. The new trend of using both gendered AND non gendered pronouns doesn’t do anything to help either - it makes it seem like you can “clock out” from being NB when you want. Whether or not cishet people should have an opinion doesn’t matter - people have to accept that if the overall cishet community is skeptical of your existence, they will not respect it. 

[JustHoran]

I see nothing wrong with that post or what was said.