discussion Will gay ever be allowed in Middle East? And how?

[Aren]

5 hours ago, Robert said:

I come from an area of the UK that’s 40% Muslim and have many Muslim friends. This just isn’t true, most British born Muslims don’t share their parents views. If you look at most Muslim MPs or those with significant political power (Sadiq Khan for example), you will see the majority are left wing and support gay rights.

It’s impossible to be a religious Muslim and support gay rights, any Muslim cleric will tell you that. Would you befriend Evangelical Christians who want you dead? I wouldn’t, let alone people who follow an even more extreme religion like Islam. In Islam, there’s something called taqiya, which allows them to lie and dissimulate when they are the minority. 

[Aren]

4 hours ago, harwee said:

Probably Lebanon and Turkey where its least to hope for its Its up for debate but that's about it. 

The rest probably come with an *as long as you're in the closet* sort of deal

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lebanon is Hezbollah land by now, so no. And Turkey is trending more and more conservative. Realistically speaking, I can see homosexuality being decriminalized in the UAE and in a post-Theocratic Iran, considering most young Iranians are actually irreligious.

[RunUpDoneUp]

First of all; western governments arming and aiding rebels that are even more conservative than the governments in power needs to stop. The current middle east is well documented making of us intervention and British aid. The middle east was very much on it's way to being a region of prosperity but that would not suit the powers in the west who sought to pillage it for resources and global chess positions(Africa went through similar pillaging.)

 

Second westerners need to stfu about Islam, never, NEVER has any radicalized population been changed by people on the internet calling them barbarians because of their religion. Not once, EVER. Sanctimonious white people, women and gays acting like the middle east and Africa have the same history as christian ran countries and therfore require stern reprimand are willfully ignorant and aren't interested in change so much as someone to lash out at.

 

The way these multiple countries change has to come from within the populace, aiding local leftists of these countries is the best start. Quite a few of these countries have despots and fascist leaders of state and region; the people need to overthrow them themselves. The only thing us sitting at home talking sht about these countries accomplishes is clips and pictures to be used by radical recruiters for terrorist cells and the alt right in our own countries.

 

In order to inspire change, a gentle hand is required from outsiders.

[Mr.Link]

Are you asking if gays will ever be accepted in a region with people who prefer to send their sons to permanent imprisonment or death before accepting them?

 

Brain washing is extremely advanced for it to be cured at this point. 

[VioletsandRoses]

No only normal countries like Israel and  Turkey. 

[HANZ94]

Not if Islam doesn’t fade away 

 

it’s no coincidence that most countries where death penalty for homosexuality is a thing are Muslims 

Edited July 5, 2022 by HANZ94

[Robert]

5 hours ago, Aren said:

It’s impossible to be a religious Muslim and support gay rights, any Muslim cleric will tell you that. Would you befriend Evangelical Christians who want you dead? I wouldn’t, let alone people who follow an even more extreme religion like Islam. In Islam, there’s something called taqiya, which allows them to lie and dissimulate when they are the minority. 

Not all Muslims think and breathe the same. Also gay Muslims exist too. Your last sentence literally screams 4Chan conspiracy.

[Mr. Blue_Shirt]

11 hours ago, kandicha said:

But legally speaking, LGBT rights are generally getting worse, not better. A lot of it is because many of these countries only stopped being under colonial rule in the last half century or so, and see Islamism as being anti-colonial. Then the LGBT community is seen as something that Westerners are shoving down everyone’s throats, and painted as a relic of colonialism. For that reason, I hate it when Western embassies pull stunts like raising rainbow flags in these homophobic countries during Pride Month because it just makes everything worse. A Western embassy tried that this past year in my country and it didn’t help anyone, it just led to a month of the local media scaremongering about gay people and spewing homophobic nonsense on the news every night.

Yeah majority of people in my country also think than homosexuality is a "product" of the western and it's absolutely ridiculous if I think about it when bisexuality and homosexuality exist in the society even before 1900s

 

Colonialism and it's legacy truly ruined society as a whole for the absolute WORSE

[Sergi91]

18 hours ago, Samsara said:

Although homosexuality is not legal, Saudi Arabia is a gay man’s paradise. I’m pretty sure a few other Gulf states are as well. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/05/the-kingdom-in-the-closet/305774/

Interesting read. I wonder how things are for those people who were interviewed in 2007 now that time passed 

 

 

———-

 

It won’t happen. It’s more likely for The Vatican to open the first Christian church in Saudí Arabia in our lifetime than having gay rights there. 

[Genius1111]

23 hours ago, Samsara said:

Although homosexuality is not legal, Saudi Arabia is a gay man’s paradise. I’m pretty sure a few other Gulf states are as well. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/05/the-kingdom-in-the-closet/305774/

Very interesting article

 

 

 

Quote

But what seems more startling, at least from a Western perspective, is that some of the men having sex with other men don’t consider themselves gay. For many Saudis, the fact that a man has sex with another man has little to do with “gayness.” The act may fulfill a desire or a need, but it doesn’t constitute an identity. Nor does it strip a man of his masculinity, as long as he is in the “top,” or active, role. This attitude gives Saudi men who engage in homosexual behavior a degree of freedom. 

 

Quote

This analogy came up again and again during my conversations. As Radwan, the Saudi American, put it, “Some Saudi [men] can’t have sex with women, so they have sex with guys. When the sexes are so strictly segregated”—men are allowed little contact with women outside their families, in order to protect women’s purity—“how do they have a chance to have sex with a woman and not get into trouble?” Tariq, a 24-year-old in the travel industry, explains that many “tops” are simply hard up for sex, looking to break their abstinence in whatever way they can. Francis, a 34-year-old beauty queen from the Philippines (in 2003 he won a gay beauty pageant held in a private house in Jeddah by a group of Filipinos), reported that he’s had sex with Saudi men whose wives were pregnant or menstruating; when those circumstances changed, most of the men stopped calling. “If they can’t use their wives,” Francis said, “they have this option with gays.”

 

 

Quote

When he announced that he would be moving, his father responded, “You know all Saudis like boys, and you are white. Take care.” Talal was pleased to find a measure of truth in his father’s warning—his fair skin made him a hit among the locals.
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Misfir told me that “bottoms”—men willing to be penetrated—are in short supply, and he advised me that if I wanted to generate responses to my postings, I should come up with a screen name that hinted at such willingness.

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Anybody can be a top, but only a gay can be a bottom.” He added, “The worst thing is to be a bottom.

----

“They know if your favorite artist is Madonna and you listen to a lot of music, that means you are gay.”

 

 

 

[Tropez]

3 hours ago, Genius1111 said:

Very interesting article

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know what that means. Bottoms go to Saudi Arabia. 

[Terrielle]

Never. And this past pride month has proved just that. Muslims are now raising an online campaign (فطرة) that "fights" the "promotion of degeneracy/homosexuality/transgenderism" and changing their profile pics into blue and pink to symoblize that. Half of my co workers have already done that.

Sometimes I wish when we, in Muslim countries, were taboo and nobody discussed us because it wasn't a big social issue. Now whenever it's pride month or some animated movie features something gay or trans we get a barrage of hatred. I Can't even I log on social media without seeing homophobic propaganda. It's exhausting.

[Gorgeous]

The question is; why is it not allowed already? Isn't the religion there known world wide as the ''religion of love''? 

[AlanRickman1946]

When Iranian women on social media de-hijab-ed they faced so much blowback.

[Young Volcanoes]

Abolish Islam and wait 50-100 years 

[Damien M]

IF you've been to the Middle East or Africa you'd know those countries are CHOCK-FULL of repressed queers.

You can literally see them flooding the streets, pretending to be straight- tight, cropped pants, arched eyebrows and all.

 

They're just all DL or in fake marriages. No one's fooling anyone.

 

The only place i don't see a lot of queerness is in Southern US States (i guess they all moved up north or to the coasts?)

Or they're better at hiding it.

[Aethereal]

On 7/4/2022 at 2:05 PM, Planet Mars said:

Africa 

 

It's still hilarious to me the way we've convinced ourselves that homosexuality is sinful and that it's an advent of Western perversion 

 

For the first time I'm starting to take a look into pre-colonial perceptions of sexuality and gender and it's literally Queer AF. Islam and Christianity did nothing but justify the homophobia of colonizers and we're acting like homophobia and transphobia are innate in our cultures 

Christian Africa has progressed though, compared to the last few decades. 

[harwee]

On 7/4/2022 at 7:59 PM, Aren said:

Lebanon is Hezbollah land by now, so no. And Turkey is trending more and more conservative. Realistically speaking, I can see homosexuality being decriminalized in the UAE and in a post-Theocratic Iran, considering most young Iranians are actually irreligious.

I don't see UAE decriminalizing homosexuality anytime soon. I don't know where that sentiment is from. I think people should be more careful there given they're trying to attract tourists and gays may be unaware of what they'll land into. I would say Lebanon was slightly ahead until Hezbollah. But they did not fare well in the recent elections, so who knows what's in store. They had the first gay publication in middle east and they recently had a trans man legally change gender, another first in the middle east. Obviously they have years maybe decades to go, but if it'll start somewhere, I think it will be in lebanon.

 

[Distantconstellation]

Most young iranians are irreligious and dont agree with their governement. Maybe in 30 years for them. Islam was the worst thing to happen to Iran.

[Before Today]

On 7/5/2022 at 2:31 AM, kandicha said:

I’m half Arab and spent part of my childhood there, and I’ve accepted it’s not happening in my lifetime.

 

Like a lot of people said it is actually surprisingly easy to get away with gay sex in MENA, because society is so sex-segregated no one bats an eye at two people of the same sex spending a little too much time together or being a little too affectionate together.

 

But legally speaking, LGBT rights are generally getting worse, not better. A lot of it is because many of these countries only stopped being under colonial rule in the last half century or so, and see Islamism as being anti-colonial. Then the LGBT community is seen as something that Westerners are shoving down everyone’s throats, and painted as a relic of colonialism. For that reason, I hate it when Western embassies pull stunts like raising rainbow flags in these homophobic countries during Pride Month because it just makes everything worse. A Western embassy tried that this past year in my country and it didn’t help anyone, it just led to a month of the local media scaremongering about gay people and spewing homophobic nonsense on the news every night.

This happened in my country too  If it's the UK Embassy, then we're from the same country

[Before Today]

On 7/5/2022 at 1:04 PM, Robert said:

Not all Muslims think and breathe the same. Also gay Muslims exist too. Your last sentence literally screams 4Chan conspiracy.

I was raised Muslim so let me add from my experience: Many Muslims who support gay rights are either lapsed Muslims to begin with/not religious, or if they're religious, they're gonna have a half-assed opinion about gay rights. My best friend is a religious Muslim, she supports gay rights on the basis of human rights, although she still thinks it's sinful. But she respects my identity and let me live, so do I. I guess if many people are like her, it's a progress. Sadly, many aren't just like this.

[October Symphony]

Even if g*d h*rself told them personally to do otherwise, they wouldn’t listen.

 

 

 

 

[Miss Show Business]

Islam needs a major reformation. Much like how in Christianity, many mainline Protestant denominations affirm homosexuality, this same thing would have to be done in Islam. And who knows if that'll ever happen. All I do know, is that this world would be so much better off without religion in general. I do hope as time passes, things get better for gays living in Islamic countries.

[Tropez]

1 hour ago, Miss Show Business said:

Islam needs a major reformation. Much like how in Christianity, many mainline Protestant denominations affirm homosexuality, this same thing would have to be done in Islam. And who knows if that'll ever happen. All I do know, is that this world would be so much better off without religion in general. I do hope as time passes, things get better for gays living in Islamic countries.

Not possible. The difference between Christianity and Judaism is that they do allow for more looser interpretations of scriptures. Especially Judaism. In Islam you could see things differently, but the word is final. There's not going to be a sudden shift, because the religion is not compatible with that idea. 

 

However, homosexuality in much of these countries exist. Turkey was the first country to decriminalize homosexuality. Sex among men is rather rampant, since there is a lot of separation of genders. And sexual contact between men happens a lot, as long as you're not the bottom. You're not "gay".

[State of Grace.]

18 hours ago, Terrielle said:

Never. And this past pride month has proved just that. Muslims are now raising an online campaign (فطرة) that "fights" the "promotion of degeneracy/homosexuality/transgenderism" and changing their profile pics into blue and pink to symoblize that. Half of my co workers have already done that.

Sometimes I wish when we, in Muslim countries, were taboo and nobody discussed us because it wasn't a big social issue. Now whenever it's pride month or some animated movie features something gay or trans we get a barrage of hatred. I Can't even I log on social media without seeing homophobic propaganda. It's exhausting.

No but the way they really considered it a counterattack against this western product/conspiracy and criminal movement with all that fear mongering....only for Facebook to shut down the page and suspend its creators after some days (after being verified by its administration at first). ????