base talk MPG's who reached SUPREME status!

[Alldeezy]

Rihanna & Britney deserve to be one of them

 

[lonnie]

9 minutes ago, StammyWammy said:

Rihanna is/was not the supreme. She's very successful and is a queen but she does not surpass Taylor.

A supreme is a made-up stan thing, it doesn't exist anywhere outside stans' minds

 

Rihanna has been more successful than Taylor in certain areas and Taylor more successful than Rihanna in others. You could literally take any metric and a stan of either Taylor/Rih/Adele etc could make points for their fave. Unless a person has a very clear advantage over everyone else on every metric, and maybe only Madonna out of the options the OP has provided has that and some may even argue against that, then there is no single "supreme".

Edited June 14, 2022 by lonnie

[PoisonedIvy]

19 minutes ago, RihFenty20 said:

Are you on Drugs? Rih is the OG instagram influencer (how does Taylor have 80M more followers but their likes are similar, something isn't adding up). People used to be living for her candid's. Rih was commanding social media before anybody else. bringing the mag covers in this just blows it out of the water in Rih's favour. The fact that you think Taylor even remotely compares in this area is 

 

Radio. Literally Nobody is seeing Rihanna's radio stats. If you want to talk numbers. Taylor has 30 top 10s but she's N/A in weeks in the top 10. Meanwhile Rih is number 1 (man or woman) with an unprecedented 360 weeks in the top 10 alone from 31 top 10s. The closest person to her is Drake with 326 weeks. She did this is 61 chart entries (half of her entries go top 10, almost 25% go number one). You people don't understand how massive Rihanna was at her peak. Nobody was seeing her.

 

Sales: Rihanna is the best selling digital artist of all time. If we're speaking pure records (singles, albums, ringtones, etc) nobody has sold more and she has sold almost 300M pure records. She's also the OG Queen of streams (something she used to be shaded heavily for) and still has strong numbers despite the overwhelming majority of her catalog being a decade old or older. Taylor also has the streams and the album sales (even tho Rih sold more albums outside the USA) so I'll tie it here. 

 

Awards: Taylor no contest. But again Rih is no slouch here. 

 

Performances: Rihanna is a way better singer than Taylor (yes she's also lazy but it doesn't change the fact that she's a better singer), she's also a better dancer. Taylor can play instruments but Rih could sing any of Taylor's songs. Taylor couldn't sing Diamonds, or LOTB or Kiss it better, Sledge hammer, etc... LOTB performances alone is clearing anything Taylor has done or could hope to do (The 183M views global citizen performance agrees with me). 

 

Imagery: Imagine the Queen of the Met Gala, known for giving Victoria secret their best performance and then ending them a few years later, The Queen of Clapbacks, Redanna, Bobanna, Queen of Tumblr, Instagram, Street style, and twitter is being reduced to the Chris Brown incident. Do you even hear yourself? Nobody but Taylor's fans care about most of those things. The only important ones are snakegate (due in part to Kanye and Kim, you know, massive celebs) the VMA (again due to Kanye and Beyoncé, massive celebs). Most of Rihanna's moments are her own, she doesn't share them with other big names like Taylor. Even if I were to include the political debut, she was shaded heavily for being fake and only taking a stand when she had something to gain from it. 

 

Touring: Taylor, No contest. Again Rihanna is no slouch in this area but it is by far her weakest area. 

 

That's 4 Rih, 2 Taylor and 1 Tie. Taylor has her strengths but the fact that you even think she's comparable to Rih in some of these areas is  

For category 1 (and 6 lowkey), popularity and imagery can be quantified by Google trends. 
 

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=%2Fm%2F0dl567,Rihanna

 

Rihanna is bigger in LatAm and Europe (+Africa), Taylor is bigger in NorthAm and Asia, (+Oceania) so it’s not so far fetched to call their popularity a tie. For all of Rihanna’s iconic looks and moments and social media popularity, Taylor has quantifiable stats that go toe to toe. Rihanna can get the same amount of likes on IG as Taylor but that doesn’t negate Taylor getting more likes on Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube.  You’re blessed I’m willing to consider them tied in these categories. 

[idkwiam]

1 hour ago, LesFleur said:

 

 

There will only ever be these Supremes.

- Most successful US group of all-time

- 20 million-selling singles

- 12 #1s on US Hot 100 (20 top 10s, 45 entries)

- 3 #1 US albums on BB200 (8 top 10s, 37 entries)

- First girl group to top Billboard 200

- Estimated 100 million records sold WW

- #17 Greatest of all time on Hot 100 Artists

- #26 Greatest of all time Billboard Artists

 

- 8 #1 songs in Canada (19 top 10s, 36 entries)

- 3 top 10 albums (14 entries)

 

- 3 UK #1 albums (6 top 10s, 19 top 40s, 254 weeks in top 75)

- 1 UK #1 single (13 top 10s, 30 top 40s, 306 weeks in top 75)

 

- UK post-prime certifications in the digital era (since 2005): Platinum ("You Can't Hurry Love"), Gold ("Baby Love"), Silver ("Where Did Our Love Go", "Stop! In the Name of Love")

- UK post-prime album certifcations: 1 Platinum, 3 Gold, 2 Silver

 

- 3 #1 songs in New Zealand (1 Platinum and top 10 album)

- 3 #1 songs in Singapore

- 9 top 10 singles in Iceland

- 4 top 10 singles in the Netherlands (16 top 40s)

- 3 top 10 singles in Australia (26 entries)

- 2 top 10 albums in Norway (4 top 20s)
- 11 top 50 singles in Belgium (Wallonia)
 

The iconic trio:

- Florence Ballard (right)

- Mary Wilson (middle)

- Diana Ross (left)

 

 

The early Primettes years

- Betty McGlown (The Primettes)

 

- Barbara Martin (The Primettes) 

 

- Cindy Birdsong

 

- Jean Terrell

 

- Lynda Laurence

 

- Scherrie Payne

 

- Susaye Greene

 

 

 

Through the years - 1 picture per lineup:

 

[StammyWammy]

3 minutes ago, lonnie said:

A supreme is a made-up stan thing, it doesn't exist anywhere outside stans' minds

 

Rihanna has been more successful than Taylor in certain areas and Taylor more successful than Rihanna in others. You could literally take any metric and a stan of either Taylor/Rih/Adele etc could make points for their fave. Unless a person has a very clear advantage over everyone else on every metric, and maybe only Madonna out of the options the OP has provided has that and some may even argue against that, then there is no single "supreme".

Stay on topic. This thread is about the supreme. Obviously it's not a real thing. It's for fun.

[idkwiam]

9 minutes ago, lonnie said:

I truly don't think the arguments are worth having here especially Taylor/Rih. In many instances some acts have one factor over the other. Tina for instance, as much as she's a legend and brilliant artist, only has touring over some of her peers. But then again the theory that only one person "reigns supreme" over others is dumb so it's not worth fighting over, they've all accomplished a lot.

Yeah I was about to say that. Diana Ross is bigger than Tina Turner if we include everything. But Tina Turner actually has better recurrent streams and better monthly listeners than Diana Ross (without The Supremes stats) so it's kinda weird. Anyways if you start the decade (70s) with this performance maybe you deserve "The Supreme" title.

 

 

 

[Orsay]

I mostly agree with this tbh!

[Solar]

I kinda agree with the list except I would replace Beyonce with Britney and put Bey instead of Pink. 

[lonnie]

5 minutes ago, idkwiam said:

Yeah I was about to say that. Diana Ross is bigger than Tina Turner if we include everything. But Tina Turner actually has better recurrent streams and better monthly listeners than Diana Ross (without The Supremes stats) so it's kinda weird. Anyways if you start the decade (70s) with this performance maybe you deserve "The Supreme" title.

 

 

 

I think this actually a good point for the arguments. Diana has the more definite iconography, sold more records, and has more hits while Tina has more acclaim, is the stronger performer and singer, and better touring stats. Tina only has 1M more monthly listeners than D. It seems perfectly split between them. Both are legends of course but trying to argue who is supreme over who is pointless.

[idkwiam]

2 minutes ago, lonnie said:

I think this actually a good point for the arguments. Diana has the more definite iconography, sold more records, and has more hits while Tina has more acclaim, is the stronger performer and singer, and better touring stats. Tina only has 1M more monthly listeners than D. It seems perfectly split between them. Both are legends of course but trying to argue who is supreme over who is pointless.

Yeah both are legends. I doubt comparing threads will ever stop on ATRL. It's probably us getting older and not liking to get involved on stan wars anymore.

[RihFenty20]

1 minute ago, WeFoundTrouble said:

For category 1 (and 6 lowkey), popularity and imagery can be quantified by Google trends. 
 

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=%2Fm%2F0dl567,Rihanna

 

Rihanna is bigger in LatAm and Europe (+Africa), Taylor is bigger in NorthAm and Asia, (+Oceania) so it’s not so far fetched to call their popularity a tie. For all of Rihanna’s iconic looks and moments and social media popularity, Taylor has quantifiable stats that go toe to toe. Rihanna can get the same amount of likes on IG as Taylor but that doesn’t negate Taylor getting more likes on Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube.  You’re blessed I’m willing to consider them tied in these categories. 

The issue is you guys like to pretend that while Taylor is bigger in these places that Rih nonexistent which is far from the case. Rihanna actually more certified than Taylor in Australia and the USA for example. Not to mention her stats in LA, and Europe blow Taylor's out of the water. Rihanna is huge EVERYWHERE but Asia and even there she's no slouch. Taylor is Huge in the NA, Asia and Oceania but she's definitely average in other places where Rihanna is a problem almost EVERYWHERE. 

 

for Facebook. Taylor's page only has 70M likes. Rihanna has 86M likes on her page.  Idk where you're getting your numbers from. Taylor gets more likes on Youtube and Twitter (Rih still has more followers here) but does she has 20+ vogue covers from around the world? not to mention the other prestigious mags she's featured in? If it just followers or likes I'd tie it but Rihanna's influence on social media far exceeds Taylor's. Bringing the mag covers into it is just overkill. 

 

There's nothing quantifiable about iconic imagery. It's either you have them or you don't. Why does your fandom always turn to numbers. Taylor doesn't have a Redanna, or Bobanna, or a clapback era, or is loved for her street style. Even Rihanna's signature white toe polish is more iconic than anything Taylor has done image wise. RIhanna influences generations of women and gays with her imagery. All those likes do not mean anything if they're just likes. Rihanna literally changes the way people dress, talk, and act. There's literally no contest here. 

 

 

[lonnie]

9 minutes ago, idkwiam said:

Yeah both are legends. I doubt comparing threads will ever stop on ATRL. It's probably us getting older and not liking to get involved on stan wars anymore.

You're right 

[ninetiesceline]

 

 

1. Popularity: 

— She has covered multiple top magazines like Time Magazine, Harpers Bazaar, ELLE, Billboard, People etc. She has over 26 million followers on Facebook. 

 

2. Radio Power: 

— Céline has one of the biggest radio hits of all time (MHWGO). It had 117 million radio audience at it Peak (the biggest for any song at that point). She also has multiple radio hits to her name.

 

3. Award Wins:

— She has won over 300+ awards including 5 Grammys (AOTY & ROTY), 50 Felix awards and 20 Juno awards.

 

4. Sales: 

— Well duh, she has sold 250 million records worldwide.

 

5. Live Performance: 

 

 

 

 

6. Iconic Imagery: 

— Céline is one of the most imitated artists there is. Her mannerisms on stage, her french accent and you would easily recognise its her even if you're not a fan. She also has some iconic fashion statements: like the 1999 oscars reverse tuxedo and has been subjects of memes, impersonations and in drags.

 

7. Touring Power: 

 

1999

 

2008

 

[PoisonedIvy]

50 minutes ago, RihFenty20 said:

The issue is you guys like to pretend that while Taylor is bigger in these places that Rih nonexistent which is far from the case. Rihanna actually more certified than Taylor in Australia and the USA for example. Not to mention her stats in LA, and Europe blow Taylor's out of the water. Rihanna is huge EVERYWHERE but Asia and even there she's no slouch. Taylor is Huge in the NA, Asia and Oceania but she's definitely average in other places where Rihanna is a problem almost EVERYWHERE. 

 

for Facebook. Taylor's page only has 70M likes. Rihanna has 86M likes on her page.  Idk where you're getting your numbers from. Taylor gets more likes on Youtube and Twitter (Rih still has more followers here) but does she has 20+ vogue covers from around the world? not to mention the other prestigious mags she's featured in? If it just followers or likes I'd tie it but Rihanna's influence on social media far exceeds Taylor's. Bringing the mag covers into it is just overkill. 

 

There's nothing quantifiable about iconic imagery. It's either you have them or you don't. Why does your fandom always turn to numbers. Taylor doesn't have a Redanna, or Bobanna, or a clapback era, or is loved for her street style. Even Rihanna's signature white toe polish is more iconic than anything Taylor has done image wise. RIhanna influences generations of women and gays with her imagery. All those likes do not mean anything if they're just likes. Rihanna literally changes the way people dress, talk, and act. There's literally no contest here. 

 

 

I can’t speak for others but I’m not here to pretend like Rihanna isn’t on par with Taylor’s career, and is in fact the only other woman to debut in the 00s who can verifiably say so. Rihanna has a massive global reach and a super impressive string of hits, but she lacks in album sales and touring power. Taylor has the album sales and touring gross, but she lacks a bit in global reach and quantity of hits. They both destroy in streaming with Taylor having the edge for now because Rihanna has kind of retired lowkey. You can give Rihanna performances, vocals, and impact, you can give Taylor songwriting, instrumentation, and influence. These women are like yin and Yang to each other in my eyes. I think Taylor has the bigger career currently but if Rihanna was 11 album releases in maybe I’d think otherwise. The fact they’re so on par with each other is super impressive for both women and I don’t mean to sound like I’m downplaying Rihanna’s career. She would absolutely qualify as a supreme or whatever made up title these ATRL gays want to give her.

 

Taylor’s social media reach is equally impressive. Her Twitter likes are insane for a celebrity of her age and stature, 750K-1M for a couple tweets a year is almost unheard of outside of US Presidents. Not to mention her followers, likes, and virality on TikTok (but I know Rih isn’t really present here). Those magazine covers are prestigious, but so are Taylor’s awards and acclaim (something Rih also kind of lacks in?) 

 

I guess I wasn’t trying to say iconic imagery can be quantified. Even if we give iconic looks entirely to Rihanna, just like you said, it’s not like Taylor is completely devoid or lacking of this either. She has cultural moments, and whether they’re big or small depend on the individual, but neither of these ladies would be the titans they are today if they didn’t have the iconic careers that they do now. 
 

This has been a nice debate with you, I know sometimes the Taylor fans just kind of think you’re a hater or whatever (and maybe that’s true, idc) but it’s nice to engage with someone who can back up their opinions, and as a Rihanna fan you’ve got plenty of evidence to back your **** up with so thanks for the fun convo. 

Edited June 14, 2022 by WeFoundTrouble

[LesFleur]

16 hours ago, Devin said:

Thank you for bringing this up cause the TALENT 

 

OT: Tina getting the respect she deserves too!

 

16 hours ago, Planet Mars said:

The Supremes were really those girls, a group of young black women in the 1960's nonetheless, whew.

Y'all know I have to stan

[UnanimousBB16]

19 hours ago, LesFleur said:

 

 

There will only ever be these Supremes.

- Most successful US group of all-time

- 20 million-selling singles

- 12 #1s on US Hot 100 (20 top 10s, 45 entries)

- 3 #1 US albums on BB200 (8 top 10s, 37 entries)

- First girl group to top Billboard 200

- Estimated 100 million records sold WW

- #17 Greatest of all time on Hot 100 Artists

- #26 Greatest of all time Billboard Artists

 

- 8 #1 songs in Canada (19 top 10s, 36 entries)

- 3 top 10 albums (14 entries)

 

- 3 UK #1 albums (6 top 10s, 19 top 40s, 254 weeks in top 75)

- 1 UK #1 single (13 top 10s, 30 top 40s, 306 weeks in top 75)

 

- UK post-prime certifications in the digital era (since 2005): Platinum ("You Can't Hurry Love"), Gold ("Baby Love"), Silver ("Where Did Our Love Go", "Stop! In the Name of Love")

- UK post-prime album certifcations: 1 Platinum, 3 Gold, 2 Silver

 

- 3 #1 songs in New Zealand (1 Platinum and top 10 album)

- 3 #1 songs in Singapore

- 9 top 10 singles in Iceland

- 4 top 10 singles in the Netherlands (16 top 40s)

- 3 top 10 singles in Australia (26 entries)

- 2 top 10 albums in Norway (4 top 20s)
- 11 top 50 singles in Belgium (Wallonia)
 

The iconic trio:

- Florence Ballard (right)

- Mary Wilson (middle)

- Diana Ross (left)

 

 

The early Primettes years

- Betty McGlown (The Primettes)

 

- Barbara Martin (The Primettes) 

 

- Cindy Birdsong

 

- Jean Terrell

 

- Lynda Laurence

 

- Scherrie Payne

 

- Susaye Greene

 

 

 

Through the years - 1 picture per lineup:

 

Thank you. They're the only Supremes of Pop I recognize.

 

If I have to specifically choose 4, it's Diana Ross, Mary Wilson, Florence Ballard, and Cindy Birdsong/Jean Terrell.

[LesFleur]

45 minutes ago, UnanimousBB16 said:

Thank you. They're the only Supremes of Pop I recognize.

 

If I have to specifically choose 4, it's Diana Ross, Mary Wilson, Florence Ballard, and Cindy Birdsong/Jean Terrell.

I really can't choose. All the lineups had such great music and a unique sound but the blend and harmony of the iconic trio is unmatched. The way they went from doo-***, soul, r&b and effortlessly transitioned into vocal, jazz standards, shows tunes and traditional pop. IMO Flo, Mary and Diana sounded best on the showtunes. The expanded set, There's a Place For Us is one of my favourite Supremes albums...even though those sessions were previously unreleased

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by LesFleur

[UnusualBoy]

I would place Britney among the 00s instead of Shakira or P!nk. 

[JCsNumba1Fan]

@LesFleur Come through with that BLACK history lesson. 

[Feanor]

Wbk Taylor is the supreme of her generation

 

Madonna would probably be the supreme across all generations  

[1989]

On 6/14/2022 at 6:38 PM, Feanor said:

Wbk Taylor is the supreme of her generation

 

Madonna would probably be the supreme across all generations  

This 

[Steve Johnson]

On 6/15/2022 at 4:08 AM, Feanor said:

Wbk Taylor is the supreme of her generation

 

Madonna would probably be the supreme across all generations  

[chiliam]

On 6/14/2022 at 12:11 PM, RihFenty20 said:

The issue is you guys like to pretend that while Taylor is bigger in these places that Rih nonexistent which is far from the case. Rihanna actually more certified than Taylor in Australia and the USA for example. Not to mention her stats in LA, and Europe blow Taylor's out of the water. Rihanna is huge EVERYWHERE but Asia and even there she's no slouch. Taylor is Huge in the NA, Asia and Oceania but she's definitely average in other places where Rihanna is a problem almost EVERYWHERE. 

 

for Facebook. Taylor's page only has 70M likes. Rihanna has 86M likes on her page.  Idk where you're getting your numbers from. Taylor gets more likes on Youtube and Twitter (Rih still has more followers here) but does she has 20+ vogue covers from around the world? not to mention the other prestigious mags she's featured in? If it just followers or likes I'd tie it but Rihanna's influence on social media far exceeds Taylor's. Bringing the mag covers into it is just overkill. 

 

There's nothing quantifiable about iconic imagery. It's either you have them or you don't. Why does your fandom always turn to numbers. Taylor doesn't have a Redanna, or Bobanna, or a clapback era, or is loved for her street style. Even Rihanna's signature white toe polish is more iconic than anything Taylor has done image wise. RIhanna influences generations of women and gays with her imagery. All those likes do not mean anything if they're just likes. Rihanna literally changes the way people dress, talk, and act. There's literally no contest here. 

 

 

You have good points.

But the moment Rih decides to comeback and release something music related then we can have this discussion again. 

For now give Taylor her well deserved supreme title. 

 

She got Tour and Awards for sure. Sales also for sure ( yeah you have good argument but you literally cannot count 1 single unit the same as album unit).

Rih got Radio power (i think the OP should should do Singles success, Album success rather than Sales and Radio, which Taylor got album and Rih got single) and Iconic imagery.

 

The other two is up for debate Popularity and Live performance. They are super famous, the way they made headlines for literally everything and have around same numbers of social media following so its hard to meansure. And lets be real they are both not the master of live performance its all about opinion, you love Rih sassy attitude on stage and i love the way Taylor engage with her audience through her lyrics.

[satellites.™]

On 6/14/2022 at 5:38 PM, Feanor said:

Wbk Taylor is the supreme of her generation

 

Madonna would probably be the supreme across all generations  

Not when Bey is back and aint going nowhere no time soon.

[satellites.™]

 More relevant now than ever!