GhostBox Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 great news 👏🏼 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostBox Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 even more great news 👏🏼 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Communion Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 15 minutes ago, GhostBox said: even more great news 👏🏼 Of course it will "impact" 30M Americans, as the vast majority of debtors have unethical interest on their lones, but lying about how much debt is actually eradicated is questionable. Especially when most of these actions are not new but were announced last year - This is a far more honest depiction of what's actually being done. And eliminating the interest is good! But no substantial plan to make interest rates on all new federal student loans zero - or seemingly capping the total forgiveness of interest at $20k - leaves questions on how they plan to implement and if they actually will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostBox Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) 34 minutes ago, GhostBox said: Not trumps abortion speech being literally nothing. 💀 just "SHOULD leave it to the states" 😂 even I'm shocked at how horrible of a "speech" this was Edited April 8 by GhostBox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostBox Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClashAndBurn Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 1 hour ago, wastedpotential said: I'm not making an argument for civic duties to convince you to vote (because I know that's a lost cause and there's nothing I can say to change your minds), rather I'm trying to articulate that basic math isn't exactly politically motivated and a failure to recognize that fact doesn't make it less true. The line I took issue with was: because it's not "liberal logic", it's just how tightly-contested, zero-sum elections in two-party systems work, which I would hope you would be able to understand given that that's how our entire electoral system functions. Joe Biden has 11,778 votes available to lose in Georgia, OR Trump has 11,779 votes to gain in Georgia. These can come from defectors, new voters, or stay-homes, but each voter picked up or lost, on one side or the other, makes it just a little bit easier for the other side to clear the majority. I can't speak to whether Clash and Burn voted for Biden in 2020 or not (but given how close things were, I'd guess yes), but a worthless third-party vote or a non-vote lowers the threshold Trump needs to win by 1, and in a state where he lost by 11779 votes, every single vote counts. I know that no one likes to be confronted with the fact that their actions can have consequences, but someone making this choice will be equally as culpable in a Trump victory as someone who directly voted for him. Hand-wave that away and moan about "earning your vote" all you want to pin all the blame on Biden to make yourself feel better, but that's just the reality here. I hope you enjoy the second Trump term! Again, by placing the burden on voters rather than the policy makers and pressuring them to just "get over" the atrocities they are enabling, you are all doing your part to take the pressure off said lawmakers and allow them to continue getting away with crimes against humanity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eat The Acid Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Now - y'all - that anger you felt when I said I'd vote Trump. Use it to address and challenge the DNC! THEN you'll make real change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastedpotential Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) 37 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said: Again, by placing the burden on voters rather than the policy makers and pressuring them to just "get over" the atrocities they are enabling, you are all doing your part to take the pressure off said lawmakers and allow them to continue getting away with crimes against humanity. You overestimate the ability of individual voters to pressure a politician here. Biden has had every incentive and coercive tactic possible thrown at him by the anti-Israel factions of the Democratic voting coalition, and he has chosen to ignore them over and over. He knows that Muslim Americans aren't going to vote for him like they did last time (and if he didn't before, he certainly does after that Iftar debacle), and he knows that the progressives protesting at all of his events aren't going to vote for him, and he's decided that he has the numbers to win without those votes. I think that's an incorrect assertion, but if Biden was really concerned, we'd be seeing different policies and messaging. There is no pressure campaign tactic that you, or I, or anyone could mount in the time between now and November, that would change Biden's mind on the issue to such a degree that he would enact a full 180º shift in policy re Israel/Palestine satisfactory to those who have sworn him off on moral grounds. Ultimately you think your strategy is the more morally righteous option available to you because it protects you from having to cast a vote for someone as disagreeable as Biden (but in the meantime making Trump's electoral path easier), and I think that mine is the more morally righteous option available because I'm doing what I see as my part to prevent Trump from taking office (which enables and empowers Biden's more disgusting policies with a vote) - either way, we're both always going to view the other option to be short-sighted, morally bankrupt, and complicit in a Trump victory. I guess that circles back to your pathological hatred for, and professed condemnation of, every single American citizen. In our collective defense, we've never been given a good option. Edited April 8 by wastedpotential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraceRandolph Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) 16 minutes ago, wastedpotential said: You overestimate the ability of individual voters to pressure a politician here. Biden has had every incentive and coercive tactic possible thrown at him by the anti-Israel factions of the Democratic voting coalition, and he has chosen to ignore them over and over. He knows that Muslim Americans aren't going to vote for him like they did last time (and if he didn't before, he certainly does after that Iftar debacle), and he knows that the progressives protesting at all of his events aren't going to vote for him, and he's decided that he has the numbers to win without those votes. I think that's an incorrect assertion, but if Biden was really concerned, we'd be seeing different policies and messaging. There is no pressure campaign tactic that you, or I, or anyone could mount in the time between now and November, that would change Biden's mind on the issue to such a degree that he would enact a full 180º shift in policy re Israel/Palestine satisfactory to those who have sworn him off on moral grounds. Ultimately you think your strategy is the more morally righteous option available to you because it protects you from having to cast a vote for someone as disagreeable as Biden (but in the meantime making Trump's electoral path easier), and I think that mine is the more morally righteous option available because I'm doing what I see as my part to prevent Trump from taking office (which enables and empowers Biden's more disgusting policies with a vote) - either way, we're both always going to view the other option to be short-sighted, morally bankrupt, and complicit in a Trump victory. I guess that circles back to your pathological hatred for, and professed condemnation of, every single American citizen. In our collective defense, we've never been given a good option. If a Republican president started electing liberal justices on the court and his base revolted and asked him to change course do you think he should expect a second term? Why is it Dems who think they are owed reelection when they are flagrantly out of step with their own base and key swing state voters? Edited April 8 by GraceRandolph Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClashAndBurn Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 11 minutes ago, wastedpotential said: He knows that Muslim Americans aren't going to vote for him like they did last time (and if he didn't before, he certainly does after that Iftar debacle), and he knows that the progressives protesting at all of his events aren't going to vote for him, and he's decided that he has the numbers to win without those votes. He believes that because he knows there are voters like you, Redstreak and Ghost Box who will support him no matter what and will demonize anyone who wavers, hopefully bullying them into backing down from their stance "for the good of our (farce of a) democracy.” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostBox Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Powerful ad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOSS Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 1 hour ago, GhostBox said: great news 👏🏼 20% is not enough imo. I realize building up capacity takes a long time but we need to be completely self-sufficient wrt chips if China decides to go after Taiwan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostBox Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Just now, VOSS said: 20% is not enough imo. I realize building up capacity takes a long time but we need to be completely self-sufficient wrt chips if China decides to go after Taiwan. I absolutely agree. It's just nice to see some progress on this issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redstreak Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 7 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said: If a Republican president started electing liberal justices on the court and his base revolted and asked him to change course do you think he should expect a second term? Why is it Dems who think they are owed reelection when they are flagrantly out of step with their own base and key swing state voters? Repubs have gone against their constituents basically every time they open their mouth, repub voters just understand the assignment that you get more of what you do like while in power and nothing without it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermillion Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermillion Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redstreak Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 7 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said: He believes that because he knows there are voters like you, Redstreak and Ghost Box who will support him no matter what and will demonize anyone who wavers, hopefully bullying them into backing down from their stance "for the good of our (farce of a) democracy.” Is Bernie complicit in this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClashAndBurn Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Just now, Redstreak said: Repubs have gone against their constituents basically every time they open their mouth, repub voters just understand the assignment that you get more of what you do like while in power and nothing without it And in the case of the left, you get nothing you like either way, and you're expected to just be fine with it Yaaaaassss, genocide those Muslims harder, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redstreak Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Just now, ClashAndBurn said: And in the case of the left, you get nothing you like either way, and you're expected to just be fine with it Yaaaaassss, genocide those Muslims harder, Joe Sis even the "advanced" European countries further ahead of us had to get their by elections, are no means finished, and didn't get there overnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClashAndBurn Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Just now, Redstreak said: Is Bernie complicit in this? Yes. Bernie is. He's a pro-Israel Jew who literally lived there in a kibbutz in his 20s, and it took a LOT for him to finally say something even remotely critical of Netanyahu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostBox Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 3 minutes ago, Espresso said: This is why trumps "speech" was worse than anyone could've imagined. Not only is it firing up the left, but he's also getting pushback and criticism from the right. It's a lose lose for him. Not to mention any day that trumps talking about abortion is a great day for Biden's campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redstreak Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Just now, ClashAndBurn said: Yes. Bernie is. He's a pro-Israel Jew who literally lived there in a kibbutz in his 20s, and it took a LOT for him to finally say something even remotely critical of Netanyahu. So then we go back to is there even an active politician in the current system that would meet the criteria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostBox Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) is anyone really surprised? We all have known and seen that Kennedy hangs around all of trumps friends and campaign staff. They are literally funding Kennedys campaign 💀 Edited April 8 by GhostBox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraceRandolph Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 17 minutes ago, Redstreak said: Repubs have gone against their constituents basically every time they open their mouth, repub voters just understand the assignment that you get more of what you do like while in power and nothing without it Repub voters don't accept weak candidates like Jeb Bush while Dems think weak candidates like Biden are the best they can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOSS Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Biden needs to change course ASAP to get these voters!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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