news 2024 US Election Megathread 🇺🇸🏛️

[Relampago.]

3 minutes ago, XDNA said:

If you don't see a world of difference between prioritizing deporting people at the border or in the justice system with criminal records versus migrants that have contributed to America for decades and with family roots or students, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

I know you guys want to turn this into "partisan" because attacking Dems is a comfort zone and Dems have failed many times on this. However, many of you are ideologues and you fail to see it. More than two things can be valid at a time.

This ironically applies to everything that I was saying and basically none of what any leftist take is saying? 

 

 Once again, most people agree Trump is worse than Biden but both were objectively bad for the communities people are claiming to feel sorry for (at least those who aren't laughing and saying "you get what you deserve!"). Why is the argument always "you CANNOT point out flaws with Biden's policies because Trump is worse!"? Why do people NEED to accept the lessor of two evils instead of arguing that we deserve better? Why can we not criticize both parties and help people realize that Democrats are doing us no favors by trying to pass the Bipartisan Immigration Bill and voting in favor of the Laken-Riley act? Why can we not acknowledge the shortcomings of the Democratic Party?

 

Do you not realize that this is essentially what Republicans did and managed to organize, adapt and change into a party that has captured the majority of the US voting population? I simply cannot understand why it matters that Trump is worse if Biden helped him to get elected again through his failures. Pointing out the potential flaws and mistakes he and Harris made is actually a very good thing! It's a very reasonable thing to assess why failures happen! 

 

But people don't want that. It's upsetting because people just want us to b**** about Trump. I'll b**** about Trump all day long, as many leftists have as well. But it is pertinent to the conversation to address how Democrats have assisted him in getting back into power and how they are currently supporting his agenda and policies in line with his thinking. 
 

Again, it is NOT a democrat vs. republican debate. The opposition party hardly exists, if at all. The sooner liberals realize that leftists are not pro-Trump but are actually trying to point out the mistakes that got us here and nothing more, the sooner we can have some progress.

 

But for the love of God, stop trying to make us out to be Trump supporters or act like we're above all the pain and suffering that's happening, because it has BEEN happening since before Trump took office even in 2016. It doesn't disappear when a Democrat takes office, and Republicans take advantage of the spineless Democrats to enact their agenda. That should be infuriating, but for some reason it's those who point out these flaws that infuriate people as if Democrats are some infallible, perfect entity.

[Living To Tell]

 

[VOSS]

😂 

[Rep2000]

3 hours ago, Relampago. said:

What's terrifying to me is that no one cared about the deportations or legislation Biden and Democrats were trying to push through and are now either pretending to care because it's time to play the Partisan Blame Game and attack, but then go radio silent when Democrats start shipping out people again or stand idly by while they support Republicans doing so (see: Democrats voting in favor of Laken-Riley Act). 

 

Why do we only care now? This isn't a game where you root for a winning team. Why are people not allowed to point out how horrible Biden's admin and Democrats at large were and how that is allowing to expand on that awful foundation? 
 

Literally no one here is defending, it's that people refuse to think beyond "is worse than Biden!" without a single thought as to how we even got here to this point.

It's frankly a kneejerk reaction at this point to keep bringing up Biden as a reply to any criticisms of Trump. And I was not even the one who brought up Biden out in the 1st place. You are not defending Trump, but sure do a lot of deflecting away from him.
Like how Trump is making a cruel spectacle out of targeting, arresting and deporting children and naturalized citizens is once again lost in your discussions.

Edited January 25 by Rep2000

[FameFatale]

 

[Communion]

57 minutes ago, XDNA said:

If you don't see a world of difference between prioritizing deporting people at the border or in the justice system with criminal records

 

59 minutes ago, XDNA said:

More than two things can be valid at a time.

But you're not arguing that. You're defending Biden and centrist Dems by running cover for them with lies.

 

Of course two things can be true at the same time. Trump is a fascist at the border. Biden was also a fascist at the border.

 

Dems should kick out anyone from the party who wants to mimic either of their strategies. 

[CandyCoatedClouds]

11 hours ago, Chemist said:

Lmaooo

God get me off this ride.

2 hours ago, FameFatale said:

The body language has me

 

 

Either Trump has shrunken in his old age, or Gavin is really tall.

[Bloo]

2 hours ago, Rep2000 said:

ICE agents are targeting schools and shelters as we speak, while also arresting naturalized citizens. If you can't see past how bad it is right now, and have to rely on "But-but-but Biden" like an excuse to not feel terrified, that's what genuinely upset me. You're as bad as those republicans who can't let Biden/Kamala out of their heads even now.

ICE has always been doing these things. I want ICE abolished. Democrats don’t. If you get your feelings hurt because I would like the Democrats be better because I know the Republicans will always be evil as hell (because they tell us that every year), then I don’t know what to tell you. 
 

Quote

I remember it very distinctively that you were the one argue with me that "Trump's 2nd term can't be *that bad* than his 1st team", despite the fact that Project 2025 is right there to read. So far, that project has become reality. So let me ask a very fair question: when would they start coming for you?

Then your memory is terrible because I never said that. I have always maintained a Trump term is going to be terrible. Where I disagree is about the Project 2025 being special. The Republicans have always planned for the things in Project 2025. If Kamala won, they would still be fighting to win courtships throughout the country to work towards it and it would be Project 2029. But, it is no surprise to anyone here that the Republicans Party wants a Christian White ethnostate. That’s been a reality before Trump got re-elected. They repealed abortion rights before Trump got elected. They have been criminalizing trans people before Trump got re-elected. If the happenings of Project 2025 is surprising to you, then I encourage you to pay attention outside of election years. 

[Harrier]

2 hours ago, Relampago. said:

I will never understand how criticisms of Biden and roadmapping how his administration's poor decisions helped lead to the right-wing swing of what were potentially winnable demographics (young voters, Latinos, independents, etc.) based on those who were very supportive of an anti-establishment left wing candidate in Sanders. Yes, we were pointing at these demographics because they were screaming that the public programs the Sanders campaign was pushing for were incredibly popular and well-received as well as his rejection of the Democrats' status quo.

 

I think a lot of liberals are struggling to understand this because their framing of the American public is largely outdated in 2025. Fewer people are thinking in terms of partisan lines and are viewing it as Democrat vs. Republican when that mentality is dying out. 

 

Trump's popularity is largely due to his populist rhetoric and the fact he's seen as opposition to the state. People know he's an ass, but they believe he's against the powers that be, so they're willing to throw their hat in the ring. 

 

I truly don't get what's not clicking. Democrats cannot keep running the same game plan. How much more do they need to lose for that to be realized? Why is everyone being blamed except for those who ran abysmal campaigns that completely drove away huge swaths of potentially would-be Democratic voters?

Everyone knows that populist rhetoric is effective and popular. The disagreement - at least from me - is around a few things. Firstly, for electability purposes, does every policy behind that rhetoric actually need to be leftist to an extent that satisfies the purity testing of the online left? Or, as I would argue, is what makes it effective actually a combination of some progressive policy and also vibes, and actually being a kind of masculinist outsider to the establishment is half the battle? I mean, Trump won twice. Was he leftist? Further from this, should all considerations around cultural issues, identity, and the branding problems of the broader left simply be ignored because running on Medicare for all is enough to get you elected? What has damaged the democratic brand to this extent: is it simply about corrupt corporate Democrats being too centrist and thats it, or is there more to it? Has the right genuinely done some damage in its culture war crusading against us in the alphabet Mafia that needs to be considered? Is this a branding problem just for the democratic party, or has the entire left wing of politics got a cultural problem that is going unexamined, particularly among young men?

 

There are a lot of questions to debate and none of us actually has all the answers. 'Kamala lost and I didn't like her so we should run my exact political ideology instead' is not a clever political take, it's just childish. I didn't think she would win for one day because of Biden's failures, and was saying she would lose right up until the end. Does that mean I'm right about everything? No lol. I was wrong in other respects and have been wrong plenty of other times - I thought she would lose due to Wisconsin, but that turned out to be her best swing state. The I told you so-ing is just political point scoring on an ATRL thread.

 

The party needs to move left on economic issues and take up the mantle of populist outsider. I genuinely don't think you will have many people disagree with you about that, it's obvious. But should the party do that by mindlessly running as left as possible on every issue without considering any consequences? Certain users argue that the next democratic presidential candidate should be Rashida Tlaib because she is the most leftist elected politican out there and thus palatable to their own beleifs. I like Rashida, I like the left in congress far more than the Joe Bidens of the world. But this argument ignores 5001 electability issues she has, a few her own fault as a political figure but many not. That mentality, that arrogance supported by an unchanging fixed worldview that takes all new information as confirmation of prior beliefs, is a recipe for disaster. It comes from projecting ones own views about class on American public that is not class concious and operates in a much more apolitical, go with the winds manner.

[Communion]

Let's do a deal - centrists just be quiet for four years and let progressives run their entire agenda for the first time in American history and if it fails, you win!

[Gaia]

I could never be a politician. These people **** talk each other 24/7 then "Lovely for you to be here. Thank you for coming "

 

--

 

I think what a lot of people in this thread aren't understanding about the criticism of Leftists, is the lopsided criticism. Over the past year, during election year no less, Leftists were on their moral high ground more concerned with denouncing Biden/Harris than seeing the bigger picture aka Trump is worse. Leftists have spent the entirety of the last year convincing people on social media that voting for Biden/Harris is a vote for genocide. In fact, we've given the lovely name "Genocide Joe!" widespread fame. 

 

Meanwhile, 0 protests outside of Trump rallies. No overtly large tiktok and social media campaign to denounce Trump. To any undecided voter, the entirety of the last year was just hearing how awful Biden/Harris are as people while Trump parades around giving false promises of "lowering egg costs" and the likes. Trump could afford to not center his campaign around Israel/Gaza and he saved himself a lot of strife by not talking about it much.

 

Meanwhile the Leftists made it to where the only thing people seemed to care about from Harris was her stance on Israel/Gaza. No matter what Harris did or said, it always went back to "but Gaza!" knowing full well, she wasn't going to be able to magically change her stance overnight in her party.

 

I don't particularly "blame" leftists for Harris losing the election, but it's more ironic seeing the crocodile tears about everything Trump is doing when you're getting exactly what you fought for aka Harris to not win the election. 

Edited January 25 by Gaia

[Bloo]

11 minutes ago, Harrier said:

But should the party do that by mindlessly running as left as possible on every issue without considering any consequences? Certain users argue that the next democratic presidential candidate should be Rashida Tlaib because she is the most leftist elected politican out there and thus palatable to their own beleifs.

I have not seen a single Leftist, in this thread or outside of it, claim either of these things. I would love to see personal guns abolished; I chastised Beto for saying “we’re coming for your AR-15s” in 2019 because it was stupid. I believe all sex work should be legalized; I’d never suggest a politician run on it in this country. 

The most electable member of The Squad is AOC and I think there is broad consensus that she’d stand no chance in a presidential race. Ironically, one of the biggest Biden defenders in this thread (that the Leftists clash with) was the last person I remember saying she had a bright future in politics and could make for a viable presidential candidate. 

[Relampago.]

1 hour ago, Rep2000 said:

It's frankly a kneejerk reaction at this point to keep bringing up Biden as a reply to any criticisms of Trump. And I was not even the one who brought up Biden out in the 1st place. You are not defending Trump, but sure do a lot of reflecting away from him.
Like how Trump is making a cruel spectacle out of targeting, arresting and deporting children and naturalized citizens is once again lost in your discussions.

It's quite the opposite actually. 

 

No one is deflecting from Trump. It's actually "See how awful this is? This is exactly what we feared and what we tried to call out during Biden's admin. The consequences of allowing Democrats to run on the platform of being the party of 'lesser evil' results in their evils being built upon when Trump takes office!"

 

That is the narrative here.

 

Why do liberals want people to only point out how bad Trump is anyways? Don't we all already know that? The disagreement comes in with Biden, Harris and other establishment Dems being awful, so that's why it gets brought up more. 

 

Funny enough though, when people point out how bad Trump is already, it turns into "see, this is what leftists caused/wanted!" It's blatantly obvious to me that many people just want to deflect from Biden and Harris's failures, rather than leftists trying to deflect from Trump's heinous acts. I just can't understand why people are so dedicated to defending a party who is ready to ship them off to sea the moment it becomes increasingly popular to do so. 

 

The only explanation I can come up with is that maybe you and others feel that you *are* the Democratic Party and don't want to feel like you were wrong for supporting them or that these criticisms of the party are somehow inherently applicable to you. If that's the case, just know that's not true. This isn't some game of *** for tat or some exclusive club where you need to prove yourself a true progressive or something. It's really as simple as "Democrats' lackadaisical approach to governing and combating fascism is not working anymore and the people of the U.S. deserve better than to choose between mediocrity (at best) or fascism".

[Communion]

7 minutes ago, Gaia said:

Meanwhile, 0 protests outside of Trump rallies.

[Bloo]

2 hours ago, Gaia said:

I think what a lot of people in this thread aren't understanding about the criticism of Leftists, is the lopsided criticism. Over the past year, during election year no less, Leftists were on their moral high ground more concerned with denouncing Biden/Harris than seeing the bigger picture aka Trump is worse. Leftists have spent the entirety of the last year convincing people on social media that voting for Biden/Harris is a vote for genocide. In fact, we've given the lovely name "Genocide Joe!" widespread fame. 

 

Meanwhile, 0 protests outside of Trump rallies.

Trump wasn’t arming Israel with the weapons to turn Gaza into a parking lot. I swear, this is not complicated. Protests are usually aimed at those in power and Trump was not yet in power. As for the rest of your post, it’s just a tired talking point at this rate. But Leftists making demands of Kamala Harris is part of Democracy. You speak up and hope that those running for power listen to you and act accordingly to win over your vote. That’s the entire point. Kamala made the intentional choice to ignore the fact that 100,000 voters in Michigan voted uncommitted over Gaza before going on to lose the state by 70,000 votes; Kamala made the choice to campaign with Liz Cheney in hopes of winning over “moderate Republicans” when it was Republicans that voted her out of office before going on to win fewer moderate Republicans than either Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden; Kamala made the choice to stick to the historically unpopular Biden administration like glue and say “I wouldn’t do anything different from him” on The View after Biden got bullied out of being the candidate with record high disapproval.

 

Leftists engaging in political speech, calling out the wrongs of the then administration and now calling out the wrongs of the current administration, is not crocodile tears. It’s literally just consistency. Crocodile tears are people being upset about things happening now that were happening two months ago under Biden.

[Vermillion]

Hegseth confirmed as defense secretary - Vance broke the tie 51-50 as I predicted

[Vermillion]

 

[Relampago.]

14 minutes ago, Harrier said:

Everyone knows that populist rhetoric is effective and popular. The disagreement - at least from me - is around a few things. Firstly, for electability purposes, does every policy behind that rhetoric actually need to be leftist to an extent that satisfies the purity testing of the online left? Or, as I would argue, is what makes it effective actually a combination of some progressive policy and also vibes, and actually being a kind of masculinist outsider to the establishment is half the battle? I mean, Trump won twice. Was he leftist? Further from this, should all considerations around cultural issues, identity, and the branding problems of the broader left simply be ignored because running on Medicare for all is enough to get you elected? What has damaged the democratic brand to this extent: is it simply about corrupt corporate Democrats being too centrist and thats it, or is there more to it? Has the right genuinely done some damage in its culture war crusading against us in the alphabet Mafia that needs to be considered? Is this a branding problem just for the democratic party, or has the entire left wing of politics got a cultural problem that is going unexamined, particularly among young men?

 

There are a lot of questions to debate and none of us actually has all the answers. 'Kamala lost and I didn't like her so we should run my exact political ideology instead' is not a clever political take, it's just childish. I didn't think she would win for one day because of Biden's failures, and was saying she would lose right up until the end. Does that mean I'm right about everything? No lol. I was wrong in other respects and have been wrong plenty of other times - I thought she would lose due to Wisconsin, but that turned out to be her best swing state. The I told you so-ing is just political point scoring on an ATRL thread.

 

The party needs to move left on economic issues and take up the mantle of populist outsider. I genuinely don't think you will have many people disagree with you about that, it's obvious. But should the party do that by mindlessly running as left as possible on every issue without considering any consequences? Certain users argue that the next democratic presidential candidate should be Rashida Tlaib because she is the most leftist elected politican out there and thus palatable to their own beleifs. I like Rashida, I like the left in congress far more than the Joe Bidens of the world. But this argument ignores 5001 electability issues she has, a few her own fault as a political figure but many not. That mentality, that arrogance supported by an unchanging fixed worldview that takes all new information as confirmation of prior beliefs, is a recipe for disaster. It comes from projecting ones own views about class on American public that is not class concious and operates in a much more apolitical, go with the winds manner.

I really hate that everything people say is blatantly misrepresented like this. Every leftist is an uncompromising, chronically-online brat who only exists to get what they want at the expense of the people they claim to want to help.

 

I seriously believe 99% of the progressives on ATRL have all agreed that supporting a single-payer national healthcare system would be a huge step forward. Like, that's literally the bare minimum. I haven't seen anyone claim we need to immediately go full communism to win. It's literally just asking Democrats to support already popular policy in M4A, raising the minimum wage and promoting green energy while also pressuring the fracking and big oil companies. Ending genocide and stopping the endless wars would be nice too, but I know that's simply too much to ask sometimes. 

 

Literally no one is trying to take joy in what Trump is doing, not that you're accusing anyone of doing this, but it's more than a petty "I told you so!" it's a "Hey, this isn't ****ing working and we have to stop putting up with it ASAP because society is ****ing rotting."

 

And to top it all off, Democrats have been moving right. I thought Harris had a decent shot to win, even though I was pretty certain Trump would win by the end of it all. Nobody in this thread was upset when that Selzer poll

showing Harris +3 was dropped. We all generally wanted her over Trump even though she wasn't our fave. But the total humiliation and rejection of her campaign showed us that our compromising on voting for the lesser evil now wasn't even a viable winning option— the main argument for running candidates like Clinton, Biden and Harris, despite the fact candidates like Sanders had good polls against Trump too. 

 

So with the argument of running winning campaigns from the center right gone, and the mutual understanding that something has to change, why would we *not* want Democrats to move left? It bears repeating that the response from many liberal media pundits and even Democrats themselves was that the Harris campaign was "too woke" and too attached to trans/non-binary issues. No acknowledgement of other, actually meaningful shortcomings, just an immediate rejection of two groups that Democrats said they would support and defend. I don't know how anyone could want that, let alone continue to chase Republicans to the right in that direction. 
 

No one is asking the 2028 candidate to hop on Twitter and start making their platform based on the 🌹 accounts. It's literally as simple as starting with saying **** the current leadership, and pushing for popular programs that help the increasing population of struggling people in this country. Yes, leftists ask for alot. Because when you ask for a slice of bread, you get crumbs. When you ask for a loaf of bread, you can have a couple pieces of bread instead. That's negotiation 101. 

 

If you don't think that's a viable strategy, more power to you. But what I don't think is a viable strategy is supporting a party that either refuses to change or if they do change, they'd rather move right at the expense of myself and voters like me. 

[Jotham]

11 minutes ago, Vermillion said:

Hegseth confirmed as defense secretary - Vance broke the tie 51-50 as I predicted

I am shocked (but relieved) that Fetterman at least said no to this.

 

I'm hoping at least that he doesn't last four years.

[Lightbringer007]

15 minutes ago, Vermillion said:

Hegseth confirmed as defense secretary - Vance broke the tie 51-50 as I predicted

ew

[RihRihGirrrl]

Fetterman will likely vote to confirm Tulsi and RFK so he's definitely still marching his way to the right 

[RihRihGirrrl]

Hegseth getting confirmed proves that the Republicans one bother pushing back against Trump one iota for the next 4 years

[Relampago.]

2 minutes ago, RihRihGirrrl said:

Hegseth getting confirmed proves that the Republicans one bother pushing back against Trump one iota for the next 4 years

Honestly with how unqualified and incompetent the appointees are, I wouldn't be surprised if the admin just implodes on itself. 

 

They can "yes man" Trump all they want, but when **** inevitably hits the fan even worse than it already has, Trump will be looking for someone to scapegoat and this clown circus of appointees will likely be first on the chopping block. 

[Bloo]

17 minutes ago, Relampago. said:

I really hate that everything people say is blatantly misrepresented like this. Every leftist is an uncompromising, chronically-online brat who only exists to get what they want at the expense of the people they claim to want to help.

 

I seriously believe 99% of the progressives on ATRL have all agreed that supporting a single-payer national healthcare system would be a huge step forward. Like, that's literally the bare minimum. I haven't seen anyone claim we need to immediately go full communism to win. It's literally just asking Democrats to support already popular policy in M4A, raising the minimum wage and promoting green energy while also pressuring the fracking and big oil companies. Ending genocide and stopping the endless wars would be nice too, but I know that's simply too much to ask sometimes. 

 

Literally no one is trying to take joy in what Trump is doing, not that you're accusing anyone of doing this, but it's more than a petty "I told you so!" it's a "Hey, this isn't ****ing working and we have to stop putting up with it ASAP because society is ****ing rotting."

 

And to top it all off, Democrats have been moving right. I thought Harris had a decent shot to win, even though I was pretty certain Trump would win by the end of it all. Nobody in this thread was upset when that Selzer poll

showing Harris +3 was dropped. We all generally wanted her over Trump even though she wasn't our fave. But the total humiliation and rejection of her campaign showed us that our compromising on voting for the lesser evil now wasn't even a viable winning option— the main argument for running candidates like Clinton, Biden and Harris, despite the fact candidates like Sanders had good polls against Trump too. 

 

So with the argument of running winning campaigns from the center right gone, and the mutual understanding that something has to change, why would we *not* want Democrats to move left? It bears repeating that the response from many liberal media pundits and even Democrats themselves was that the Harris campaign was "too woke" and too attached to trans/non-binary issues. No acknowledgement of other, actually meaningful shortcomings, just an immediate rejection of two groups that Democrats said they would support and defend. I don't know how anyone could want that, let alone continue to chase Republicans to the right in that direction. 
 

No one is asking the 2028 candidate to hop on Twitter and start making their platform based on the 🌹 accounts. It's literally as simple as starting with saying **** the current leadership, and pushing for popular programs that help the increasing population of struggling people in this country. Yes, leftists ask for alot. Because when you ask for a slice of bread, you get crumbs. When you ask for a loaf of bread, you can have a couple pieces of bread instead. That's negotiation 101. 

 

If you don't think that's a viable strategy, more power to you. But what I don't think is a viable strategy is supporting a party that either refuses to change or if they do change, they'd rather move right at the expense of myself and voters like me. 

I think the misrepresentations are all the more annoying because it was… what… 6 months ago when Leftists were the ones saying Biden should be swapped out with Harris and hoping she’d be slightly more left than Biden. I was personally excited at early signs she was actually doing that with early rhetoric of price control, some other (light) anti-corporate posturing, and selecting Tim Walz. But then she continued to mocked to the right of Biden and shelved Walz altogether. 
 

The most vocal group of people that started the Kamala is Brat memes were not the Centrist Democrats. They were the ones defending Biden’s debate performance and saying we’re stuck with him. I saw more energy behind Kamala from leftists and somehow that’s magically forgotten because her refusal to shift on genocide was too far for most. 

[Bloo]

2 minutes ago, Relampago. said:

Honestly with how unqualified and incompetent the appointees are, I wouldn't be surprised if the admin just implodes on itself. 

 

They can "yes man" Trump all they want, but when **** inevitably hits the fan even worse than it already has, Trump will be looking for someone to scapegoat and this clown circus of appointees will likely be first on the chopping block. 

I’m expecting a very high turnover rate. His first term was a complete s*** show with the number of administration members were fired or left. I expect this round to be even more pronounced. Vivek is a beaming example.