Communion Posted January 24 Posted January 24 (edited) 7 hours ago, XDNA said: I think there's a lot of nuance to unpack here. Such as Trump dealing with the Covid pandemic and impeachment proceedings during his first term which he won't have to deal with this time. The reports coming to light from this week's ICE raids and immigration policy changes are alarming and only more time will reveal the exact harms. 7 hours ago, on the line said: Thanks for pushing back. We are watching veterans, Native Americans, and other US citizens being harassed by the hour, and these people still feel like they need to be like "but, but Biden!!!" 5 hours ago, superglowy said: They don't actually care about the issues they scream about unless it can be used as an attack to hit Democrats with. These same people should be popping off in this thread with their anger at all the terrible things Trump is inflicting as they are the champions of the poor and disenfranchised and Minority voters…..and crickets. Dont let them gaslight you or 'b-b-but Biden'. It is genuinely astounding to continually see people who just objectively do not know what they're talking about all look at each other and tell one another "EXAAAAAACTLY" despite how ill-informed they are on a specific issue. And then to point out that said users are simply uninformed on the issue and thus cannot speak accurately on it is "putting words in people's mouths". Part of it is genuinely annoying as someone actually invested in the issue of immigration and being informed to just have people essentially squawk their way through what could be meaningful conversations about the issue because their only motivations are incoherent defenses of a political party. Suggesting somehow the operations of ICE can be impacted by impeachment hearings (?) or somehow that COVID would *lower* the rate at which people are deported, when historical fact is that COVID allowed Trump to violate US immigration law with executive actions like Title 42 - Trump-penned EOs Biden kept in place. The average Dem partisan is like "why should I have sympathy for a MAGA regretting their vote???" but also like.. why should I as a progressive have sympathy for a liberal for being uninformed on what is continually the vast majority of actual policies & issues? Edited January 24 by Communion 4
XDNA Posted January 24 Posted January 24 (edited) Elon Musk in an email to X staff in January, per the WSJ. "Our user growth is stagnant, revenue is unimpressive, and we're barely breaking even" https://bsky.app/profile/mattburgess1.bsky.social/post/3lgjbtqtzas24 But sure let's do nothing and keep supporting him like some people here advocate for. Edited January 24 by XDNA 2 2
Vermillion Posted January 24 Posted January 24 Elon's owes the banks for their billions in losses so will be creating West Wing policy catered to them. Everything's on the nose and no one cares.
superglowy Posted January 24 Posted January 24 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Communion said: It is genuinely astounding to continually see people who just objectively do not know what they're talking about Considering you have in the past championed Jill Stein and John Fetterman, spent years vouching for Gen Z only for them to turn conservative and written essay after essay about how the Progressive Left is the future only for it to be 10 years later and for the Progressives to have made no real inroads or built any stronger of a base it's astounding how you continue to be so cocky and dismissive when it's you that doesn't seem to know what they're talking about, objectively. Edited January 24 by superglowy 1 2
Communion Posted January 24 Posted January 24 (edited) 3 minutes ago, superglowy said: when it's you that doesn't seem to know what they're talking about Please explain to the class why you believe Joe Biden held the position he did over Title 42 and the legality of policies such as RIM. Please explain to the class what these things are and their current impact on the Trump-Biden-Trump immigration policy currently in place. Sources cited appreciated, thank you! Edited January 24 by Communion
Communion Posted January 24 Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, FameFatale said: Oh Claudia said nope Seems like RIM will continue to face backlash and be illegal for Trump like it was for Biden. @superglowy Spoiler: other nations have sovereignty too!
superglowy Posted January 24 Posted January 24 22 minutes ago, Communion said: Please explain to the class why you believe Joe Biden held the position he did over Title 42 and the legality of policies such as RIM. Please explain to the class what these things are and their current impact on the Trump-Biden-Trump immigration policy currently in place. Sources cited appreciated, thank you! Ahh There it is. Another one of Communions passive aggressive stupid little tests to deflect him having to address anything and to attempt to humiliate someone. I know you are CHRONICALLY online but you do know you're not in charge of this thread, yeah? And for someone asking about Title 42 and RIM, not really seen you post ,icy at all about Trumps immigration raids or essentially creating a Gestapo. It's fascinating how you are so invested and just care so much when it's a Democrat but Trump literally has immigrants being hunted down and never really see you post much. Interesting. 1 1
superglowy Posted January 25 Posted January 25 Also if this thread could not bloody crash and delete everything when I try and post a long reply, that would be great.
Communion Posted January 25 Posted January 25 3 minutes ago, superglowy said: Ahh There it is. Another one of Communions passive aggressive stupid little tests to deflect him having to address anything 43 minutes ago, Communion said: And then to point out that said users are simply uninformed on the issue and thus cannot speak accurately on it is "putting words in people's mouths". *blinks* 4 minutes ago, superglowy said: not really seen you post ,icy at all about Trumps immigration raids *blinks* I just genuinely think life would make so much more sense for some of you if you just admit that the way you previously viewed the world was wrong. Politics doesn't have to be emotions! Sometimes it's just a science! Class-rooted politics = good, politics antagonistic to class = bad! It's just that simple! 2
Relampago. Posted January 25 Posted January 25 (edited) I will never understand how criticisms of Biden and roadmapping how his administration's poor decisions helped lead to the right-wing swing of what were potentially winnable demographics (young voters, Latinos, independents, etc.) based on those who were very supportive of an anti-establishment left wing candidate in Sanders. Yes, we were pointing at these demographics because they were screaming that the public programs the Sanders campaign was pushing for were incredibly popular and well-received as well as his rejection of the Democrats' status quo. I think a lot of liberals are struggling to understand this because their framing of the American public is largely outdated in 2025. Fewer people are thinking in terms of partisan lines and are viewing it as Democrat vs. Republican when that mentality is dying out. Trump's popularity is largely due to his populist rhetoric and the fact he's seen as opposition to the state. People know he's an ass, but they believe he's against the powers that be, so they're willing to throw their hat in the ring. I truly don't get what's not clicking. Democrats cannot keep running the same game plan. How much more do they need to lose for that to be realized? Why is everyone being blamed except for those who ran abysmal campaigns that completely drove away huge swaths of potentially would-be Democratic voters? Edited January 25 by Relampago. 6 2
Rep2000 Posted January 25 Posted January 25 8 hours ago, Bloo said: Reminder that Biden as president deported more people than dining his first term. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c36e41dx425o.amp If mass deportations genuinely upset you, then you should be able to consistently call it out when "your side" does the same thing. ICE agents are targeting schools and shelters as we speak, while also arresting naturalized citizens. If you can't see past how bad it is right now, and have to rely on "But-but-but Biden" like an excuse to not feel terrified, that's what genuinely upset me. You're as bad as those republicans who can't let Biden/Kamala out of their heads even now. I remember it very distinctively that you were the one argue with me that "Trump's 2nd term can't be *that bad* than his 1st team", despite the fact that Project 2025 is right there to read. So far, that project has become reality. So let me ask a very fair question: when would they start coming for you? 2
Relampago. Posted January 25 Posted January 25 14 minutes ago, Rep2000 said: ICE agents are targeting schools and shelters as we speak, while also arresting naturalized citizens. If you can't see past how bad it is right now, and have to rely on "But-but-but Biden" like an excuse to not feel terrified, that's what genuinely upset me. You're as bad as those republicans who can't let Biden/Kamala out of their heads even now. I remember it very distinctively that you were the one argue with me that "Trump's 2nd term can't be *that bad* than his 1st team", despite the fact that Project 2025 is right there to read. So far, that project has become reality. So let me ask a very fair question: when would they start coming for you? What's terrifying to me is that no one cared about the deportations or legislation Biden and Democrats were trying to push through and are now either pretending to care because it's time to play the Partisan Blame Game and attack Trump, but then go radio silent when Democrats start shipping out people again or stand idly by while they support Republicans doing so (see: Democrats voting in favor of Laken-Riley Act). Why do we only care now? This isn't a game where you root for a winning team. Why are people not allowed to point out how horrible Biden's admin and Democrats at large were and how that is allowing Trump to expand on that awful foundation? Literally no one here is defending Trump, it's that people refuse to think beyond "Trump is worse than Biden!" without a single thought as to how we even got here to this point. 6 1
Communion Posted January 25 Posted January 25 15 minutes ago, Relampago. said: I will never understand how criticisms of Biden and roadmapping how his administration's poor decisions helped lead to the right-wing swing of what were potentially winnable demographics (young voters, Latinos, independents, etc.) based on those who were very supportive of an anti-establishment left wing candidate in Sanders. Yes, we were pointing at these demographics because they were screaming that the public programs the Sanders campaign was pushing for were incredibly popular and well-received as well as his rejection of the Democrats' status quo. I think a lot of liberals are struggling to understand this because their framing of the American public is largely outdated in 2025. Fewer people are thinking in terms of partisan lines and are viewing it as Democrat vs. Republican when that mentality is largely dying out. Trump's popularity is largely due to his populist rhetoric and the fact he's seen as opposition to the state. People know he's an ass, but they believe he's against the powers that be, so they're willing to throw their hat in the ring. I truly don't get what's not clicking. Democrats cannot keep running the same game plan. How much more do they need to lose for that to be realized? Why is everyone being blamed except for those who ran abysmal campaigns that completely drove away huge swaths of potentially would-be Democratic voters? The frustration with the left-punching done by liberals is that it is at its core largely conspiracy-driven and removed from reality. It posits that progressives simply are secret supporters of Trump but yet is unable to articulate how or why this sentiment can even be argued. It's just fallacy. Because.... back in 2016, they used to at least try! We literally had to endure rounds of "progressives are... white racists! sexist men! straight chuds who'd sacrifice trans people for universal healthcare!!!". The hypocrisy in 2024 is even worse cause liberals essentially got the candidate and campaign they always wanted - a black woman running an anti-progressive campaign - and yet she did... terrible! So now you see liberals wanting to both punch at progressives in a way that they can 1) smear them while 2) arguing for some kind of basis to move to the party to the right. Democratic partisans went from cursing "the dirtbag left" to now crying that it must purge its rank of "the woke left". So leftists have to be framed as woke and thus bad so Dems can apparently now drop wokeness as something progressives did and not them but also still frame leftists as wanting to be secret Republicans so as to not to listen to them cause leftists are ALSO UNwoke and thus bad?
Communion Posted January 25 Posted January 25 21 minutes ago, Rep2000 said: ICE agents are targeting schools and shelters as we speak So you agree with progressives in their call to abolish ICE and disagree with people like the Pod Save America bros calling to embrace ICE then! 3
XDNA Posted January 25 Posted January 25 9 minutes ago, Relampago. said: What's terrifying to me is that no one cared about the deportations or legislation Biden and Democrats were trying to push through and are now either pretending to care because it's time to play the Partisan Blame Game and attack Trump, but then go radio silent when Democrats start shipping out people again or stand idly by while they support Republicans doing so (see: Democrats voting in favor of Laken-Riley Act). Why do we only care now? This isn't a game where you root for a winning team. Why are people not allowed to point out how horrible Biden's admin and Democrats at large were and how that is allowing Trump to expand on that awful foundation? Literally no one here is defending Trump, it's that people refuse to think beyond "Trump is worse than Biden!" without a single thought as to how we even got here to this point. If you don't see a world of difference between prioritizing deporting people at the border or in the justice system with criminal records versus migrants that have contributed to America for decades and with family roots or students, then I don't know what to tell you. I know you guys want to turn this into "partisan" because attacking Dems is a comfort zone and Dems have failed many times on this. However, many of you are ideologues and you fail to see it. More than two things can be valid at a time. 1
Relampago. Posted January 25 Posted January 25 7 minutes ago, Communion said: The frustration with the left-punching done by liberals is that it is at its core largely conspiracy-driven and removed from reality. It posits that progressives simply are secret supporters of Trump but yet is unable to articulate how or why this sentiment can even be argued. It's just fallacy. Because.... back in 2016, they used to at least try! We literally had to endure rounds of "progressives are... white racists! sexist men! straight chuds who'd sacrifice trans people for universal healthcare!!!". The hypocrisy in 2024 is even worse cause liberals essentially got the candidate and campaign they always wanted - a black woman running an anti-progressive campaign - and yet she did... terrible! So now you see liberals wanting to both punch at progressives in a way that they can 1) smear them while 2) arguing for some kind of basis to move to the party to the right. Democratic partisans went from cursing "the dirtbag left" to now crying that it must purge its rank of "the woke left". So leftists have to be framed as woke and thus bad so Dems can apparently now drop wokeness as something progressives did and not them but also still frame leftists as wanting to be secret Republicans so as to not to listen to them cause leftists are ALSO UNwoke and thus bad? And this is exactly what disturbs me the most. I was a fervent supporter of Harris, as most in this thread know, because I too feared Trump. Even the next day after, I was expressing my sympathies to Harris because I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt and felt that she was put up as a sacrificial lamb for the incoming red wave. I knew the campaign wasn't what I wanted, but I figured they'd realize that pivoting right wasn't the key and would work on at least nudging themselves to the left. Oh… how foolish! The reaction was instead "we were too vocal about trans and non-binary people! too woke!" Showing that this party doesn't actually stand for anything and are willing to throw people they promised to protect under the bus in order to chase Republicans further right, instead of breaking ground and forging a new way forward. So for the queer community of ATRL and others in other social medias to so stubbornly defend a party that is ready to throw them under the bus and not fight for them is sad and terrifying. The Democrats don't care about you. If same-sex marriage plummets in popularity, they will gladly push through legislation to define marriage between a man and woman. They simply do not stand for anything, let alone us. It should be enough that Democrats don't offer real help to everyday people, but I can understand that some users don't have that level of empathy if they don't experience financial hardships to the level that most in this country do. Not ideal, but at least I can see where thats coming from. I don't know how to defend the party that is ready to throw queer folks under the bus, and really never cared much for us to begin with. It's shocking. 4 2
i spit on haters Posted January 25 Posted January 25 Still laughing at how quickly they pushed Vivek out. All that tap-dancing for white men thinking he would be fully accepted into their club. 8 2 2
ATRL Moderator Element Posted January 25 ATRL Moderator Posted January 25 7 hours ago, Bloo said: Frankly, I am of the opinion that I would prefer to see someone who has never held political office before. Get an activist. Get a union president. Get somebody who doesn't have the stink of DC to tarnish their branding. If we could get an outsider that has a strong, resonant pro-worker foundation and swiftly rebuts culture war traps put in place by the Republicans to refocus people's attention to class disparity, that would be great. I think Democrats doom themselves by only thinking about current elected officials. This is the way forward 1
Recommended Posts