Miss Show Business Posted November 9 Posted November 9 24 minutes ago, HBK-79 said: On Election Eve, everyone here was perched for a Kamala win, and in the aftermath, everyone here is saying 'she was a doomed to flop'. ย 2016 teas all over again. Some of the people here were practically frothing at the mouth at the prospect of a Trump win, just to own the libs. 1 1
Communion Posted November 9 Posted November 9 (edited) 37 minutes ago, dawnettakins said: In what world is appealing to a broad coalition across a plethora of identities with economic populism and fixing a broken economic and political system "falling into right-wing rhetoric about "DEI" or "wokeism"?? It's just good political strategy and how you actually win. ย You don't win by further dividing people up based on identity and categories thatย elites impose on everyone else. It doesn't mean identity isn't important or that you don't talk about it, but it shouldn't be the main focus when the numbers themselves bare out that the economic situation is the most important issue for people. ย Not to mention that people are fed up with the status quo and hollow identity politics that only seem to amount to shallow "representation" without any actual meangiful change or things that address the massive inequities and discrimination in our society. ย I guess I can change it to hollow, corporate identity politics is over, which only ever seem to translate to mean shallow representation but no actual policy change (because the establishment doesn't want to change the status quo since they benefit from it). I'm referencing what Hasan mentioned before. That wide-sweeping changes, whether about trying to cut out specific messaging speech or building out some silly podcast network, for example, won't change anything if Democrats simply do not get behind wide-sweeping economic proposals like Medicare For All, Free College, etc. Dropping certain language or not recognizing how racism and capitalism intersect don't do anything if you're not calling for radically freeing people from the oppression of things like for-profit, private health insurance. ย Representational politics or tokenism - as opposed to identity politics - was and could be disruptive to populist agendas, sure, but with Harris' loss, I doubt many will be arguing now that only a black woman could deliver an agenda that speaks to segments of the Democratic base like black women. The most important political figure of the last 20 years in maintaining diverse progressive coalitions is revealing himself to have been an old white Jewish man all along. ย Which is why it feels silly to try to reinvent the wheel in either direction, since Bernie 2020 already like.. figured it out. ย Whether it be paid DNC bots pushing Newsom now to yell at Republicans for being bigots or this idea to abandon any segment of the base and flowery language to not be 'woke'. Those ugly anti-trans centrist Dems.. are centrists! They don't even support raising the minimum wage! ย It's not race/sex/gender over class or class over race/sex/gender. It's ALL OF IT. Police brutality is an economic issue. Access to abortion is an economic issue. Access to hormone therapy is an economic issue. In the same way Medicare For All is a racial justice issue, free college and debt forgiveness is a racial justice issue. ย Democrats will never meaningfully win elections again without radically returning to their past of being a party specifically of the multi-racial working class. Edited November 9 by Communion 1 2
ClashAndBurn Posted November 9 Posted November 9 2 minutes ago, Miss Show Business said: Some of the people here were practically frothing at the mouth at the prospect of a Trump win, just to own the libs. She did what you wanted her to do. She ignored us. She hugged Liz Cheney when neocons like BILL KRISTOL told her that was a bad idea that would depress her base. She lost in a landslide. The liberals' political point of view is an objective FAILURE! 3
Miss Show Business Posted November 9 Posted November 9 2 minutes ago, welham said: I know the writing is kind of on the wall, but... what are the chances that the Dems could eek out a majority in the House? It's looking like the GOP might have the advantage, but the one saving grace here is that it seems like it will be a very slim majority, especially compared to 2016. They won a 246 seat majority then, right now it's neck and neck with Dems at 200 seats and the GOP at 212 seats. ย Hopefully, this means Democrats will be smart to build coalitions within the House and stall a lot of the GOPs priorities.
Lightbringer007 Posted November 9 Posted November 9 this man is truly unhinged and I kinda live for itย ย ย ย 1
Onyxmage Posted November 9 Posted November 9 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Marianah Adkins said: Yes and he still got tons of minorities to vote for him. I would agree that it was white Christian nationalism in 2016 but in 2024? I'm sorry but to act like the DNC didnt trot out identity politics more than the GOP is pure cope and explains everything why the party got clobbered.ย ย If you go out of your echo chambers for once, you will see that most MAGA voters were not voting for white Christian bullshit, they were voting for (false) promises of economic relief if Trump is elected (hence the slogan "Trump will Fix It"). What bothers me is that this posturing is the traditional Democrat line from the days of the New Deal and FDR. And yet we have conceded this with the other party. The Democrats truly lost their way Is this a JOKE? Trump literally went full KKK this campaign, all that missing was the white hood and torch. Saying things like immigrants are vermin, they are poisoning the blood of this nation. You clearly have no idea how much self hate and hatred Latinos have for immigrants which is exactly why Trumps racist message resonated with them. They voted to keep their privilege and power and Latinos propped them up hoping to partake in some of that but like ive said before, karma keeps receipts and the storm is just starting for them. When their family members are deported we will laugh at them for helping this DEVIL get elected.ย Edited November 9 by Onyxmage 1
XAMJ Posted November 9 Posted November 9 i still think k trump cheated - he is too quiet, he is not gloating, its like he knew he was going to win.ย ย ย
welham Posted November 9 Posted November 9 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Miss Show Business said: It's looking like the GOP might have the advantage, but the one saving grace here is that it seems like it will be a very slim majority, especially compared to 2016. They won a 246 seat majority then, right now it's neck and neck with Dems at 200 seats and the GOP at 212 seats. ย Hopefully, this means Democrats will be smart to build coalitions within the House and stall a lot of the GOPs priorities. This was kind of my thinking. The Republican Senate majority wouldn't give them that much room to maneuver, so the chances of giving Republicans a headache in passing things would be through the House. I feel very confident that some House Republicans will use that slim majority to demand concessions, though they will still be pieces of **** who eventually help Trump in passing things obviously.ย ย I also suspect some of the Senate Republicans will abstain or vote against some of the most controversial Republican bills for posturing, "keeping a (relatively" clean hand," and setting themselves apart from other Republicans to make a name for themselves, and it will be hella annoying to witness ย Edited November 9 by welham 3
Ashley Banks Posted November 9 Posted November 9 Sorry to sound like a MAGAt but why are some of these states and districts taking so long to count the votes? I'm looking at the AP and there are places that still have less than 85% of votes counted. It's been several days. I want to know what the final House breakdown will be, the popular vote totals, and who will win AZ Senate.
Bears01 Posted November 9 Posted November 9 Just now, XAMJ said: i still think k trump cheated - he is too quiet, he is not gloating, its like he knew he was going to win.ย ย ย He has internals. He was storming the country while Kamala was literally on SNL begging PA to vote for her.ย ย The reality is, I felt it in the air all year (but it definitely peaked during trumps assassination): the country wanted Trump back in power. The votes and shifts prove that. I indulged the Hopium that Kamala would induce the "anyone but Trump or Biden" the polls were saying, but it was just that: Hopium.ย ย ย 4
Wonderland Posted November 9 Posted November 9 Just now, welham said: I know the writing is kind of on the wall, but... what are the chances that the Dems could eek out a majority in the House? Realistically I don't think a Democratic majority looks to be even close to the most likely outcome... But it does depend on the way this outstanding vote leans. If you made me quantify it, I'd say it sits at a 10% chance or lower ย Currently on NBC there are 19 uncalled seats. Dems are on 204 and Republicans are on 212. ย Of those 19 races yet to be called: Republicans lead in 11 and Democrats lead in 8. So Republicans look set to end up on about 223 seats which would be a slim majority (as 218 is required). ย It's hard to know what the exact lean is in a lot of the outstanding vote in California and Arizona (where most of the key races are) but CA 47 did flip Democratic on the updates today. ย I think best-case scenario, Democrats would have to hope nothing else flips against them PLUS they close the gap in a few more close seats (I see 2-3 possible in California, a less likely 1 in Arizona and Colorado) and pray the remaining Alaska vote comes through enough for Peltola to pull ahead with ranked choice distributions. ย Iowa 1 ended up being very close but it's an 800ish vote gap and I'm not sure if enough vote is left to close it in any further. It might be in recount territory though. ย I do wish Cali and Arizona would hurry up a little nnn
dawnettakins Posted November 9 Posted November 9 17 minutes ago, Communion said: I'm referencing what Hasan mentioned before. That wide-sweeping changes, whether about trying to cut out specific messaging speech or building out some silly podcast network, for example, won't change anything if Democrats simply do not get behind wide-sweeping economic proposals like Medicare For All, Free College, etc. Dropping certain language or not recognizing how racism and capitalism intersect don't do anything if you're not calling for radically freeing people from the oppression of things like for-profit, private health insurance. ย Representational politics or tokenism - as opposed to identity politics - was and could be disruptive to populist agendas, sure, but with Harris' loss, I doubt many will be arguing now that only a black woman could deliver an agenda that speaks to segments of the Democratic base like black women. The most important political figure of the last 20 years in maintaining diverse progressive coalitions is revealing himself to have been an old white Jewish man all along. ย Which is why it feels silly to try to reinvent the wheel in either direction, since Bernie 2020 already like.. figured it out. ย Whether it be paid DNC bots pushing Newsom now to yell at Republicans for being bigots or this idea to abandon any segment of the base and flowery language to not be 'woke'. Those ugly anti-trans centrist Dems.. are centrists! They don't even support raising the minimum wage! ย It's not race/sex/gender over class or class over race/sex/gender. It's ALL OF IT. Police brutality is an economic issue. Access to abortion is an economic issue. Access to hormone therapy is an economic issue. In the same way Medicare For All is a racial justice issue, free college and debt forgiveness is a racial justice issue. ย Democrats will never meaningfully win elections again without radically returning to their past of being a party specifically of the multi-racial working class. Got it. Think I'm following you now. And on the wide-sweeping change and policies, I couldn't agree more. That's what makes meaningful change in people's lives and that people can actually feel. ย M4All, raising the minimum wage, paid family and medical leave for everyone, etc.ย Not means-testing everything and limiting it to the point very few people qualify or can feel it. That doesn't bring together a working, winning coalition since hardly anyone is impacted by or can feel such things. 1
Bamboo Posted November 9 Posted November 9 24 minutes ago, welham said: I know the writing is kind of on the wall, but... what are the chances that the Dems could eke out a majority in the House? I think DDHQ says most likely 220-215 R majorityย
GraceRandolph Posted November 9 Posted November 9 1 minute ago, dawnettakins said: M4All, raising the minimum wage, paid family and medical leave for everyone, etc.ย Not means-testing everything and limiting it to the point very few people qualify or can feel it. That doesn't bring together a working, winning coalition since hardly anyone is impacted by or can feel such things. The Democrats need to start screaming this **** from the rooftops.ย 2
dawnettakins Posted November 9 Posted November 9 7 minutes ago, Ashley Banks said: Sorry to sound like a MAGAt but why are some of these states and districts taking so long to count the votes? I'm looking at the AP and there are places that still have less than 85% of votes counted. It's been several days. I want to know what the final House breakdown will be, the popular vote totals, and who will win AZ Senate. It takes time to count all those mail-in votes. Especially in places like California where almost everyone votes by mail. ย This isn't the first election where this has occurred either - remember 2020? Or even in 2022 we didn't know the full breakdown in the House for weeks.ย
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted November 9 ATRL Moderator Posted November 9 32 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said: Oh my god. OH MY GOD! She ran to the right of Bill Kristol, Oh my ******* GOD! ย ย He told her she should do what we've been saying here and her response to him was "pound sand" Oh my GOOOOOOOOOOD Iโ when Bill Kristol is making sense ย 1
ClashAndBurn Posted November 9 Posted November 9 4 minutes ago, Save-Me-Oprah said: Shermichael Singleton ย What about him?
Armani? Posted November 9 Posted November 9 2 hours ago, armink said: ย oh my god please noย ย Well that might be one of the biggest poll errors ever lol
Onyxmage Posted November 9 Posted November 9 ย ย Yet people here want us to believe that Latinos aligned with Trump because of his "economic message." ย
Redstreak Posted November 9 Posted November 9 48 minutes ago, Miss Show Business said: Some of the people here were practically frothing at the mouth at the prospect of a Trump win, just to own the libs. Because they were right, *again*. They tried to tell you what she was doing wrong like in 2016 and in response were told to shut up 2
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