Bethenny Frankel Posted November 8 Posted November 8 4 minutes ago, K.O said: How the fuxx? Never thought someone I know irl would be posted on ATRL but there's a first for everything! At least PA barely stays blue at the state level.
Relampago. Posted November 8 Posted November 8 1 hour ago, Cruel Summer said: Y'all… I can't entirely say yet what this election is doing to my psyche, but I woke up today and honest to god, one of my first thoughts was "damn, I think I'm gonna move to Michigan." I haven't felt this kind of singular motivation before in maybe my entire life. How's the rent in, say, Grand Rapids? Climate change is going to make the midwest so powerful and so much more expensive in the future girl, this is a sign from God! Take it! 9
Harrier Posted November 8 Posted November 8 40 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said: Going out of your way to ban something that is of near-zero statistical significance just shows that Democrats will be more willing to throw you under the bus in other ways. The sports ban is David Shor popularism, sure fine whatever. Pass it and make it clear to everyone that you think trans people are an unjustifiable burden and must be sacrificed. What comes next? In my opinion, in the unlikely event that ACA repeal fails, the ban on transition surgery until the age of 26 and the ban on puberty blockers will be the next steps. The goal is to prevent trans people from accessing the care they need until they commit suicide. Banning transition surgery from being covered by any insurance whatsoever will be on the table as well. I hear what you are all saying - dont contribute to making it an issue. But if the Republicans introduce the bill, forcing house members to vote on it, then base advertising on that vote - that's damaging in a close district. It's one thing for a governor or a presidential candidate, but for people with voting records it's tricky to navigate.
Sannie Posted November 8 Posted November 8 5 minutes ago, Wicked said: But exactly what case did Trump make? This argument implies the Dems failed to make a case while the GOP succeeded. They didn't. They offered nothing. The American people blame the incumbent (fair enough) and that's all there is to it. No messaging would've won. 4 minutes ago, Bethenny Frankel said: The way most Americans don't even know what a tariff is and they just think "China bad" when Trump is talking about them. If they had paid attention is basic Civics class, maybe they would've known why prices are going to go up even more with Trump in office. TBF, I don't think we even have basic civics lessons here. 3 minutes ago, Vermillion said: Well sure, but it's not the cult that matters, it's the millions of average Americans who voted for Trump thinking he can bring prices back down to pre-COVID levels.
FameFatale Posted November 8 Posted November 8 1 minute ago, Vermillion said: I'm telling y'all STOP THE STEAL! Doesn't make sense.
superglowy Posted November 8 Posted November 8 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Vermillion said: Edited November 8 by superglowy
superglowy Posted November 8 Posted November 8 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Vermillion said: The thinking about Economic hardship being a motivator isn't directed at Trump voters, they're a cult. It's for disillusioned Dems and Independents and soft Republicans. The benefit of it hitting Trump voters is schadenfreude Edited November 8 by superglowy 2
Sannie Posted November 8 Posted November 8 1 minute ago, Vermillion said: She'll only be 68 in 2032. She won't be old enough to run. 7
FameFatale Posted November 8 Posted November 8 Upsetting but knew it was coming. He's above the law now. 1
Bethenny Frankel Posted November 8 Posted November 8 3 minutes ago, Vermillion said: Honestly Kamala would pretty easily win that Governor race if she chooses to. I don't think this is the last we see of her.
CandleGuy Posted November 8 Posted November 8 11 minutes ago, Vermillion said: Latino men voted for Hillary and Mexico has...wait for it...a FEMALE PRESIDENT. 1
ClashAndBurn Posted November 8 Posted November 8 6 minutes ago, Harrier said: I hear what you are all saying - dont contribute to making it an issue. But if the Republicans introduce the bill, forcing house members to vote on it, then base advertising on that vote - that's damaging in a close district. It's one thing for a governor, but for people with voting records it's tricky to navigate. The end result is Democratic Party voters become acclimated to their electeds taking on anti-trans votes and start to just accept that as the new direction moving forward Once trans people have been successfully otherwise and made invisible to society, the rest of the LGB alphabet soup will also be made an example of. The emboldened SCOTUS will be making moves against us over the years to come. Obergefell will be gone and we won't be able to freely marry. Bostock will be gone and we won't be able to work and be out of the closet. Lawrence will be gone and we will be imprisoned and brutalized by police for breaking sodomy laws. The sports bans are only the first step. Things only get worse from here. 1
Relampago. Posted November 8 Posted November 8 49 minutes ago, Harrier said: But what do we do about this sports issue realistically? What does the left want from democrats? You're right they will use it as a wedge issue - so do you just let them and lose your election? Let them take more power? This isn't a personal freedom issue, like trans people's healthcare. Thus it is immensely harder to argue for. It has horrendous polling not only in the US but literally everywhere. Frankly, rarely do I see any argument other than 'shut up trans women are women and belong in women's sports'. That isn't going to cut It when this fundamentally goes against people's intuitions. Even a lot of LGBT people are hesitant on some of the nuances. Its divisive even in a space like ATRL. There are non-right wing trans commentators who acknowledge there is room for nuance. Anecdotally, the two trans women I know in my personal life are both more against it than I am. Why then close ranks and refuse to budge on an issue that is only relevant for like probably under 1000 people in your whole country Unless someone can provide me with an argument that will actually be persuasive to cis normies, for me this falls squarely in the category of toxic dead end Californinian social politics. That may not be popular in here but the hard conversations need to be had. The only one I've come across is Trans people committing suicide at insanely high rates is not worth preventing the 7 trans kids who actually play these sports, from playing them. Ironically it came from the ****ing governor of UTAH. Quote Finally, there is one more important reason for this veto. I must admit, I am not an expert on transgenderism. I struggle to understand so much of it and the science is conflicting. When in doubt however, I always try to err on the side of kindness, mercy and compassion. I also try to get proximate and I am learning so much from our transgender community. They are great kids who face enormous struggles. Here are the numbers that have most impacted my decision: 75,000, 4, 1, 86 and 56. 75,000 high school kids participating in high school sports in Utah. 4 transgender kids playing high school sports in Utah. 1 transgender student playing girls sports. 86% of trans youth reporting suicidality. 56% of trans youth having attempted suicide. Four kids and only one of them playing girls sports. That's what all of this is about. Four kids who aren't dominating or winning trophies or taking scholarships. Four kids who are just trying to find some friends and feel like they are a part of something. Four kids trying to get through each day. Rarely has so much fear and anger been directed at so few. I don't understand what they are going through or why they feel the way they do. But I want them to live. And all the research shows that even a little acceptance and connection can reduce suicidality significantly. For that reason, as much as any other, I have taken this action in the hope that we can continue to work together and find a better way. If a veto override occurs, I hope we can work to find ways to show these four kids that we love them and they have a place in our state. Like, I do sympathize with the fear of women having to compete against men, but… is winning in sports (something that really doesn't matter when it comes to actually living) more important than not making trans people feel like strange monsters? I know it's a losing battle because people don't feel personally connected enough to trans people to care that much, but I find that ostracizing a small subset of people to feel comfortable about… youth soccer games is kinda lame. And even if we flip this narrative, can trans men compete in men's sports? Does anyone have issue with that? Probably less so, for obvious reasons, but it just shows there isn't really that much of a care for preventing AFAB from getting hurt or anything, it's mostly just an uncomfortable situation that people project onto trans women.
Cruel Summer Posted November 8 Posted November 8 Is there any actual reason that the President magically becomes above the law or is that just yet another case of "well we have to respect the Constitution" and "it would cause so much instability!" nonsense to which we on the left side of the American political spectrum capitulate because of some sort of mythological and ultimately false idea of how we have to behave in a democracy/republic even though the Republicans wouldn't give a single **** if the roles were reversed? 2
Sannie Posted November 8 Posted November 8 "Most don't have skills." "Most don't have partners." And then... "All for reasons outside of our control." These boys are such ******* losers. What do you mean it's someone else's fault you don't have a skill? Skills are learned. You can learn any skill. 1
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