family.guy123 Posted November 7 Posted November 7 22 minutes ago, BOOMBAYAH said: A lot of women like the idea of men being macho and providing for them. Even progressive, sexually liberated women can fall into this trap Trap?
Mezter Posted November 7 Posted November 7 Maybe Republicans will turn a new leaf and not **** up the economy for the 3rd time in my life 3
Thuggin Posted November 7 Posted November 7 Also, this is why the most effective defense of LGBT rights and all other social issues has and will always be "well it doesn't affect you so why do you care?" And why Republicans have to divert to "They're coming for your children!" so people can believe it actually does negatively affect them somehow. Or take it from this funny (but effective) video from over a decade ago convincing straight men that actually keeping gay marriage illegal would negatively affect them lol. Maybe we need to bring sort of snarky humor back instead of fingerwagging. 4
Relampago. Posted November 7 Posted November 7 3 minutes ago, Jay07 said: Do you really think Trump dragged Republicans? His economic policies were as mainstream Republican as it gets (tax cuts, deregulation), it was just his personality and flagrant racism and sexism that were out of the normal and appealed to voters. Some far left socialist doing a takeover of the party and appealing to some imagined unactivated progressive majority is a pipe dream, sorry. The moment the infamous working class hears the word communist they shut down. He dragged the **** out of girls like Cruz and Rubio and dog walked them while saying the Republican Party was full of corruption and cowardice, he unlocked people's rage and contempt for career politicians and playing nice. It's kinda awful but people see Dems as that now— calculated, out of touch and generally hypocritical and untrustworthy. The entire brand is tarnished and the only way forward is for a candidate to complete show contempt for the Dems' failures. Of course, Trump might instead be so bad that they run a Shapiro ticket and win ala Biden with Trump/COVID. And then we're stuck in this hell again, but all I know is I won't be participating in that anymore. If Dems can't win elections against layup candidates like Trump, then there's no real reason to vote for them since they don't promise much or inspire me. 5
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted November 7 ATRL Moderator Posted November 7 59 minutes ago, Relampago. said: I fear identity politics need to be addressed as a thing of the past in a sense. We shouldn't pretend it's perfect, but addressing any trans/queer issue needs to be faced as "the American people do not care what anyone does with their body, they're tired of hearing about this issue, they just want to be able to afford to live" and stop dwelling on it. That boogeyman needs to go and Dems can't rely on these social issues to save them anymore. The average person truly does not care and Dems need to stop addressing it like Pam in suburban Philadelphia cares about transgenders when she's paying $11 for a carton of eggs. Make it a non-issue and people will stop caring about that entirely, because they honestly already don't care that much. While I agree, they need to be more intentional in this approach. Kamala tried her hand at this but she delivered it so awkwardly that pro-trans voters are going to think she’s not an ally to the community and anti-trans voters are have enough of an awkward exchange to say she’s going to force children into surgeries at school. Just a firm, “This is not the business of the government, I trust parents and doctors to make those decisions, now let’s talk about issues affecting most Americans,” will do. 6
BOOMBAYAH Posted November 7 Posted November 7 Just now, family.guy123 said: Trap? In my opinion, this mindset is a trap. First, a woman shouldn't be dependent on a man, and second, it perpetuates a culture where men are the providers and women are subservient. There's a reason why women have continuously fought for their rights throughout history—even in times of slower progress—because centering and serving men in exchange for money, luxury, or comfort always backfires. And making macho men the standard and ideal fuels the ostracization of gay men—even masculine gay men, as being gay is often inherently viewed as feminine—as well as straight men who aren't traditionally masculine, making them seem less desirable or of value. This is just scratching the surface, but yes, patriarchy harms everyone and is a trap that superficially looks good. 5
Redstreak Posted November 7 Posted November 7 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Jay07 said: Do you really think Trump dragged Republicans? His economic policies were as mainstream Republican as it gets (tax cuts, deregulation), it was just his personality and flagrant racism and sexism that were out of the normal and appealed to voters. But he doesn't campaign like it is, he talks about blowing up systems and rooting out corruption and destroying everything keeping his supporters down. The policy doesn't reflect that, but do you think his voters are glued to house votes on CSPAN and reading the proposal details? No, they're seeing TikTok's of him screaming about draining the swamp and taking a sledgehammer to regulations holding the economy back. The hyperbolic rhetoric is the driver and it's perceived by his base as authentic and mad just like them about their economic situation. Dem voters are also suffering from that same inflation, but instead of responding to that with our own promises (her price gouging talking point made no noise because she let it be a couple vague sentences per rally before moving on) we get headlines about Liz Cheney joining her for multi state campaign tours and then wonder why 15 million people stayed home this time granted it's an anecdote but someone I watched today talked about speaking to coal miners back in 2016, they knew those jobs weren't coming back, but at least Trump pretended like he'd fight to get them back, Hillary Clinton told them to learn how to code. The cycle of dem leadership learning nothing continues Edited November 7 by Redstreak 3
Thuggin Posted November 7 Posted November 7 23 minutes ago, Suilen said: So what you're implying is that if Trump succeeds in banning all forms of gender-affirming care on the federal level, Democrats shouldn't address it at all during the next elections in 2026 and 2028, and trans people should hope and pray that Democrats still have their best interests at heart? Or what? How do you make it a non-issue when it's going to be an issue? There's some weird vibe going in this thread regarding trans people when Kamala herself only skirted around the issue. It's the right that keeps fearmongering over trans people, but counteracting it with 'who cares about that, right?' isn't the way. Trans people deserve to be reassured that they won't have their right or health care taken away, and if that scares away some potential voters for the party, well... It's always been obvious that The Democratic Party can't realistically represent the sheer plurarity of life experiences/views, and compromises have to be made, but nobody wants to be a part of that compromise. Also, LGBT people made up 8 percent of voters and voted blue by some +74 margin. We are vastly overrepresented in the electorate compared to the American population because we busted our asses to vote for Democrats - and that's despite Democrats avoiding mentioning us or attempting to moderate on trans issues this election cycle. I won't deny that "identity politics" turns a lot of people off, but it's important to point out that WE DIDN'T PICK THIS FIGHT! Republicans are the ones who ramped up the anti-LGBT rhetoric starting in 2022 and also anti-CRT/wokeism/DEI crap to target Black people too, and I hate that the pundits are suggesting that the most loyal Democratic voting blocs should be thrown under the bus when all it came down to was the economy. No one voted Biden in 2020 and then Trump in 2024 because they decided "trans" had gone too far. No one. Not one. Maybe people have shifted from liberal to conservative socially or are getting fed up with identity politics, but that's an issue that's occurring over multiple election cycles, not an issue with the campaign Kamala and Democrats ran this year. 2 1
BOOMBAYAH Posted November 7 Posted November 7 Obama Becomes First Sitting President to Grace Cover of LGBT Magazine Gay rights is part of the fabric of the modern Democratic Party, so they will never abandon it. Pete being a leading figure and AOC being a star makes me confident that we'll still have support, even though I'm sure the older leaders who hold significant power probably want to scale it back and only use it as an anti-Republican talking point. 1
monologueNacafe Posted November 7 Posted November 7 12 minutes ago, Bloo said: While I agree, they need to be more intentional in this approach. Kamala tried her hand at this but she delivered it so awkwardly that pro-trans voters are going to think she's not an ally to the community and anti-trans voters are have enough of an awkward exchange to say she's going to force children into surgeries at school. Just a firm, "This is not the business of the government, I trust parents and doctors to make those decisions, now let's talk about issues affecting most Americans," will do. Your posts > 1
ClashAndBurn Posted November 7 Posted November 7 How do you have such a massive advantage in donor cash, LOSE and still end up $20M in debt?! Utter incompetence. The donor class is going to have to rethink their future of even making contributions to such useless, futile campaigns in the future. Literally pissing money away. A joke. 1
Relampago. Posted November 7 Posted November 7 22 minutes ago, Thuggin said: https://www.reddit.com/r/self/s/3Xq5iKyfKT This Reddit post kind of says it all tbh. This is the average person who didn't vote Trump in 2020 but voted for him in 2024. Yes, cultural resentment was and is a factor for many Trump voters too, but I think those people are firmly Republican at this point. At least these people are honest. They don't care about abortion and other people's rights that much. It will always be of negligible concern compared to their pocketbooks. Also, on all the "I need to be able to put food on the table for my family / gas in my car" takes, I can understand why a working class person who's not that tuned into policy may feel desperate for a change, but let's keep it real. Most of the people saying this are not a paycheck away from poverty. They are living very comfortably albeit slightly less comfortably than before inflation (or at least they believe they are). The truth is the vast majority of people are very individualistic and self-interested. They may be empathetic to other people's fights for equality / rights, but they will never choose them if it means financial sacrifice. As long as Republicans are winning on the economic message, our rights will always be on the line. What's crazy about this is… Trump will likely not be better for the economy if his policies get enacted So it's like, okay what can we do to even combat that type of approach where people think "inflation was high during Biden! Trump is the answer!" without any context as to why that is or how Trump intends to fix that. You just get unlucky sometimes (in this case, inheriting an COVID economy, and there's nothing you can do about it I guess. 5
Thuggin Posted November 7 Posted November 7 I will say though, the discourse that's already been prompted here, on Twitter, on Reddit. All the strategizing and conversations that previously would've felt taboo or off the table that can now be had. Mama we're getting to the bottom of this clusterfuck 3 3
BOOMBAYAH Posted November 7 Posted November 7 2 minutes ago, Relampago. said: What's crazy about this is… Trump will likely not be better for the economy if his policies get enacted So it's like, okay what can we do to even combat that type of approach where people think "inflation was high during Biden! Trump is the answer!" without any context as to why that is or how Trump intends to fix that. You just get unlucky sometimes (in this case, inheriting an COVID economy, and there's nothing you can do about it I guess. America needs education. We live in an age of misinformation, and perhaps the answer for Democrats and left-wing governments around the world isn't to combat right-wing propaganda with left-wing propaganda, but to give people the tools to critically assess the economy, policies, ideologies, etc. (Oh, but wait, the Republicans and right-wing governments have already declared war on higher education, history, and critical thinking) 5 1
Redstreak Posted November 7 Posted November 7 12 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said: How do you have such a massive advantage in donor cash, LOSE and still end up $20M in debt?! Utter incompetence. The donor class is going to have to rethink their future of even making contributions to such useless, futile campaigns in the future. Literally pissing money away. A joke. Either that or they knew 2024 was a wash and used the late campaign to enrich themselves, either way they all gotta go. They've failed us too many times. Over a billion spent to lose the popular vote to Donald Trump 2 1
Rotunda Posted November 7 Posted November 7 26 minutes ago, Bloo said: While I agree, they need to be more intentional in this approach. Kamala tried her hand at this but she delivered it so awkwardly that pro-trans voters are going to think she's not an ally to the community and anti-trans voters are have enough of an awkward exchange to say she's going to force children into surgeries at school. Just a firm, "This is not the business of the government, I trust parents and doctors to make those decisions, now let's talk about issues affecting most Americans," will do. I think Kamala positioning herself as one of the most liberal senators and running to the left of the majority of the field in 2020 just to have to become a Biden cheerleader really made her and her team think they had to overcompensate to prove she didn't have some hidden California agenda….but that's her own fault for not having convictions. Ideally candidates would just follow the Walz method going forward (we don't want to bother random people, we don't want to empower bullies, why tf are you obsessed with the making things harder for people who are already on the outs) 4
woohoo Posted November 7 Posted November 7 12 minutes ago, BOOMBAYAH said: America needs education. We live in an age of misinformation, and perhaps the answer for Democrats and left-wing governments around the world isn't to combat right-wing propaganda with left-wing propaganda, but to give people the tools to critically assess the economy, policies, ideologies, etc. (Oh, but wait, the Republicans and right-wing governments have already declared war on higher education, history, and critical thinking) Oh this. America has a stage 5 sound the alarm bells media literacy and financial literacy problem. I've never seen anything like it. Everyone in my life gets educated by Fox News or twitch streamers. It's really sad. 1
Thuggin Posted November 7 Posted November 7 Bleak. Only non-right wing guy being Hasan whom Democrats want banned from Twitch 2
Relampago. Posted November 7 Posted November 7 Whew, the reality is kinda setting in. Republicans have full power. I really hope they were lying during their campaign because.. What a sad time. 1
woohoo Posted November 7 Posted November 7 17 minutes ago, GhostBox said: 5 of the 7 were pretty darn close Nevada . I think it's safe to say it's gone for the foreseeable future
ClashAndBurn Posted November 7 Posted November 7 11 minutes ago, Relampago. said: Whew, the reality is kinda setting in. Republicans have full power. I really hope they were lying during their campaign because.. What a sad time. The lie during the campaign was that they -weren't- doing Project 2025.
cloudbusting Posted November 7 Posted November 7 18 minutes ago, woohoo said: Oh this. America has a stage 5 sound the alarm bells media literacy and financial literacy problem. I've never seen anything like it. Everyone in my life gets educated by Fox News or twitch streamers. It's really sad. I think folks in this thread have covered media literacy in depth at various time, but It astounds me the way some people will see something presented as a "hack" by some random person with a following (whether it's real or inflated by bots) and just… take it at face value. Like every other month I stumble upon some influencer basically setting people up for some kind of wire fraud/money laundering investigation by playing fast and loose with credit. it's always some dumb "banks don't want you to know about this!" thing and it's like yeah… because it's ILLEGAL baby! and yet, they rope naive people into it because people either aren't taught about critical thinking or just… basic financial principles. it's sad and scary 4 1
Mellark Posted November 7 Posted November 7 What are the chances of Kamala running for governor in CA? A gag incoming. Her Nixon era.
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