Cruel Summer Posted November 7 Posted November 7 1 minute ago, Capris Groove said: One thing I've been thinking about, I feel that the left has some serious rethinking to do about how they approach the topic of men, and I worry people are too uncomfortable to do that. There's a strong thread of misandry running through leftist messaging that I feel like people ignore or prefer not to address. Speaking as someone who wholly supports feminism as an equality movement, I don't have to dig very deep to find very loud voices that put even me off. This whole thing where people see the male Gen Z population flocking toward alt-right voices, throw their hands up and say, "They all hate women!" as though that's the end of that discussion is clearly reductive. Is it really "leftist" messaging where that (very real and present) rotten line of rhetoric runs most deep? When I see the word leftist, I think left-wing populist policy, wages, healthcare, etc. When I think about where men are most railed against, it's a very specific slice of the left wing that feels much more aligned with the Hillarysphere or outside normal electoral politics altogether (ie. certain terminally online audiences). 1
Communion Posted November 7 Posted November 7 11 minutes ago, on the line said: You don't think "their" relentless bashing of Harris multiple times an hour every single day month after month did nothing to tank her campaign? I'm a baguette online talking about where Ariana Grande's last single charted. Let's hope me fighting Eastern European twinks on a forum of fellow homosexuals about geopolitics somehow didn't *re-read* tank the $1b presidential campaign of Kamala Harris. 8
Virgos Groove Posted November 7 Posted November 7 2 hours ago, Beyonnaise said: To use a very 2017 word, he's been fully normalized. There was an essay about the stigma around liking Trump has dissipated, especially with young people who don't remember a political era before him. I feel like the resistance to him will be more like how people hated Bush. I think people are too desensitized to do another large scale Women's March. Do you have the link to that essay? I'd love to read it.
Achilles. Posted November 7 Posted November 7 I hope that at least one group will do an in depth nationwide analysis of the non-voters. We need actual data on why they stayed home. Surely at least one group will bother doing that, right? 4
Bamboo Posted November 7 Posted November 7 3 minutes ago, Capris Groove said: One thing I've been thinking about, I feel that the left has some serious rethinking to do about how they approach the topic of men, and I worry people are too uncomfortable to do that. There's a strong thread of misandry running through leftist messaging that I feel like people ignore or prefer not to address. Speaking as someone who wholly supports feminism as an equality movement, I don't have to dig very deep to find very loud voices that put even me off. This whole thing where people see the male Gen Z population flocking toward alt-right voices, throw their hands up and say, "They all hate women!" as though that's the end of that discussion is clearly reductive. Someone needs to find a way to communicate to men that most men and most of middle America are not racist, homophobic, or transphobic. A good chunk of them are and even more exhibit those traits but it's not the point. They don't identify with those words and it is just name calling. The voters identify as apathetic. They simply do not care about those issues and are tired of identity politics. They want someone to listen to how the white straight middle class male is struggling financially. They feel like the left is rejecting them by saying they're bigots. But these people just feel like they're being rejected by the left and society is wanting them to progress without them. The left should find a way to be the party of racial diversity and the LGBTQ+ but it should not be front and center. It was, is, and will be the economy at the forefront of the mind of the bulk of the electorate forever. Maybe I'm just rambling but god I think the left fumbled how to approach so many meaningful issues and I have no idea where they go now. 7
gorillaz Posted November 7 Posted November 7 (edited) So how bad is it going to get for black and brown people? I keep seeing mentions of Project 2025, I get that nobody can know for sure, but can anyone make a guess? Or a measured prediction? And is there ANYTHING good about Trump taking over that I may have missed as I only really hang in left-leaning circles? Edited November 7 by gorillaz
Lil Mistee Posted November 7 Posted November 7 36 minutes ago, Communion said: Biden in 2022 began pivoting from COVID-era populism (to answer your other post) which many voters liked (!) to scapegoating immigrants for financial hardship. Many leftists were vocal critics over the way the Biden admin aimed to restrict asylum processes or migration. The CHNV program came from this pressure, and allowed people from these most common immigrant groups coming to the US to enter a parole program and a protected status for 2 years if they have a financial sponsor. The graph is showing how many people from those 4 countries were encountered trying to enter the country illegally + denied entrance (dark blue) versus those who were encountered at a lawful port of entry cause they could now have parole status. Basically people stopped trying to entering illegally once the parole program existed. So leftists, even in the face of right-wing immigrants wanting to keep the American left out of power, veer to a humanitarian immigration policy. Ironically, the right-wing Biden admin has chosen not to renew the CHNV program and thus the people in the US here on it, when it expires in January 2025, will now be facing a harsh Trump deportation system that the Biden admin basically allowed them to be victim to and enabled by running to a hardline, right-wing take on immigration. Interesting, what did the graph look like before Biden took office I would wonder
Blankspace2010 Posted November 7 Posted November 7 Just now, Anthinos said: It's funny but this US election and its result has somehow made me more optimistic. I was really depressed in 2016. Now I'm optimistic and combative. I have the feeling that this election and the victories of the right in Europe were the wake-up call we all needed. Here in Germany, too, a lot is happening in the progressive ranks at the moment. I am proud to be a Progressive and I will not be intimidated by the far right. I also think this - more than ever - is the death of the Obama-Clinton-Biden Democratic Party. Project 2025 is horrible, it's socially dire for women and trans people. It wants to flood civil services with conservative employees only, remove protections for minorities experiencing discrimination in the workplace, continue to limit abortion nationally, destroy climate change initiatives, limit FBI and CIA powers/funding, and remove departments of education. It wants to take out any scientific or rational aspect to the departure of education and completely isolate any non conservative from government or civil service. It does not state plans to end democracy or in state the new conservative president as a dictatorship. Its whole aim is to bring America back to the Reagan era of conservatism. However - the message of "saving democracy" felt a bit too scare mongering and avoided actually addressing any important issues to voters. Project 2025 is a horrible document - however - there will be an election in 2028. The America you now know may be extremely limited and conservative. Trump has a huge trifecta to implement his manifesto which will only make him more popular with his base and any independents that see a president do what he promises to do. Republicans truly won with a set of policies, focused plan and popular candidate - while democrats said "he's bad, vote for me". If democrats don't push left and offer an alternative to conservatism - it's over. It's clear the dooming and scare tactics do not work. The American people want simple messages that they can digest and vote on. Dems gave NOTHING. 5 1
PrettyHurts Posted November 7 Posted November 7 10 minutes ago, Capris Groove said: One thing I've been thinking about, I feel that the left has some serious rethinking to do about how they approach the topic of men, and I worry people are too uncomfortable to do that. There's a strong thread of misandry running through leftist messaging that I feel like people ignore or prefer not to address. Speaking as someone who wholly supports feminism as an equality movement, I don't have to dig very deep to find very loud voices that put even me off. This whole thing where people see the male Gen Z population flocking toward alt-right voices, throw their hands up and say, "They all hate women!" as though that's the end of that discussion is clearly reductive. Misogyny is still misogyny. Even if it's been repackaged for a new generation. Even if it's what's popular. It's still misogyny. This is grab em by the ***** President we are talking about. And he is the country's idol. 1
woohoo Posted November 7 Posted November 7 5 minutes ago, gorillaz said: So how bad is it going to get for black and brown people? I keep seeing mentions of Project 2025, I get that nobody can know for sure, but can anyone make a guess? And is there ANYTHING good about Trump taking over that I may have missed as I only really hang in left-leaning circles? I'm honestly considering having all my social media wiped including atrl because I'm scared things I've said in the past online will get me jailed. That's how deep in it I think we are. There won't be a 2028 election. I wish I had the optimism of others on here but this was it. We messed up royally. 5
on the line Posted November 7 Posted November 7 Just now, woohoo said: I'm honestly considering having all my social media wiped including atrl because I'm scared things I've said in the past online will get me jailed. That's how deep in it I think we are. There won't be a 2028 election. I wish I had the optimism of others on here but this was it. We messed up royally. You're smart to think this way, but I'm afraid the tracking has already begun.
Virgos Groove Posted November 7 Posted November 7 5 minutes ago, Communion said: I'm a baguette online talking about where Ariana Grande's last single charted. Let's hope me fighting Eastern European twinks on a forum of fellow homosexuals about geopolitics somehow didn't *re-read* tank the $1b presidential campaign of Kamala Harris. "Ms. Harris, I'm afraid we discovered what tanked your campaign." "Mass voter fraud? Stuffed ballots? Disinformation campaigns?" "No. It was a handful of twinks who compared you to Katy Perry." 9
Blankspace2010 Posted November 7 Posted November 7 Project 2025 also wants to ban all porn. So you baguettes better get your fill before January 20th djegvesksheb 1 1
Blankspace2010 Posted November 7 Posted November 7 1 minute ago, woohoo said: I'm honestly considering having all my social media wiped including atrl because I'm scared things I've said in the past online will get me jailed. That's how deep in it I think we are. There won't be a 2028 election. I wish I had the optimism of others on here but this was it. We messed up royally. I think this is too extreme. There will be a 2028 election. Project 2025 wants to inject extreme conservative policies and agenda over America. It will sadly get a lot accomplished in the next 2 years in that regard.
TheArgonaut Posted November 7 Posted November 7 This discourse of young men leaning far-right more than ever is so weird… do we need to tend to the emotional needs of people that cannot comprehend that "rape=bad" "not yout body=not your choice" "empathy with everybody"? Like… the whole social media is full of violence from this exact type of men, what should the left do? Pat them on their backs? 7
Popular Post Harrier Posted November 7 Popular Post Posted November 7 Reflecting today, I apologise to the girls for getting a bit too defensive of Kamala earlier. I just genuinely feel bad for her and for everyone, and it felt like hitting people while they were down. Everyone needs to do some soul searching here if the global left can come back from all these losses. Leftists are right that the entire focus needs to be in populist economic policy and messaging. Kamala did fail on this, as did Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton before him. The Obama playbook of empty platitudes and positive unity messages that define democratic politics since 08 has failed, and it is time to move to a more aggressive style. The democratic party must become the party of Bernie Sanders going forward. Bernie, more than any othe progressive leader, is very good at pushing for populist economic policy without getting overly trapped in what I would describe as college educated progressivism, as people like AOC do. Without being a purist who kicks people out of his movement the moment there is a single disagreement, instead he's a coalition builder. So yeah, there needs to be a young Bernie Sanders. I also think it is still true that woke social politics born out of academia are toxic and need to be deliberately demphasised. Those libs yapping about this have a point. Talking about the toxic white men, policing the way people speak, dividing people into categories and groups and assigning levels of privilege. Toxic masculinity. Cancellation. DEI HR departments. And yes, i'm sorry to say, pronoun policing. All of this stuff has - Californian progressivism - become wildly unpopular, and It is delusional to suggest that it is not partly responsible for the mass lurch right among young men and Latino men, almost as much as the economic stuff. It's unpopular not only in the US, but everywhere. So maybe it's a two pronged approach. Populist economics, and reframing our position in the culture war as simply standing up for peoples right to be who they are, regardless of what that might be. Away from the toxic negativity of wokeism and identiy politics that has alienated millions of men around the world, and towards an all inclusive populist movement against corporate oligarchy. 18 4 1
BeenTheShit Posted November 7 Posted November 7 (edited) "How an elite nepo crybaby who's never worked a day in his life finessed yall into following him" Edited November 7 by BeenTheShit 3
PrettyHurts Posted November 7 Posted November 7 1 minute ago, TheArgonaut said: This discourse of young men leaning far-right more than ever is so weird… do we need to tend to the emotional needs of people that cannot comprehend that "rape=bad" "not yout body=not your choice" "empathy with everybody"? Like… the whole social media is full of violence from this exact type of men, what should the left do? Pat them on their backs? Clock that tea. They are saying it's time to get rid of identity politics to appeal to young men. I have to laugh. The truth is a lot of them are actual BIGOTS. 3 2
Thuggin Posted November 7 Posted November 7 11 minutes ago, Bamboo said: Someone needs to find a way to communicate to men that most men and most of middle America are not racist, homophobic, or transphobic. A good chunk of them are and even more exhibit those traits but it's not the point. They don't identify with those words and it is just name calling. The voters identify as apathetic. They simply do not care about those issues and are tired of identity politics. They want someone to listen to how the white straight middle class male is struggling financially. They feel like the left is rejecting them by saying they're bigots. But these people just feel like they're being rejected by the left and society is wanting them to progress without them. The left should find a way to be the party of racial diversity and the LGBTQ+ but it should not be front and center. It was, is, and will be the economy at the forefront of the mind of the bulk of the electorate forever. Maybe I'm just rambling but god I think the left fumbled how to approach so many meaningful issues and I have no idea where they go now. I agree most people are apathetic not outright bigoted, but like how do you fight attacks on our rights when you're dealing with indifference? Genuinely asking because I don't know the answer. The right: *makes it illegal to be trans and bans gay marriage* Us: "They're infringing on LGBT rights!" Everyone: "Ughhhh just stop talking about identity politics already!" I wish they had the same aversion toward identity politics when it comes from an oppressive right wing perspective. But then again, even when people aren't bigoted themselves, bigots are their friends and family and it makes them angry to see them referred to as anything but amazing people. So I'm at a loss how to proceed forward without just letting the right stomp all over us on the cultural issues. 8
Communion Posted November 7 Posted November 7 (edited) I think AOC is a very smart person and has good intentions but the contrast of her taking this moment to complain about people being critical online of Democrats and how "we have to make coalitions with people we don't always fully agree with" vs Rashida talking in the last days of the campaign about how her concern was to get people off the couch because of how much the genocide broke their spirit in her community, including her mother of all people is... stark. Like it took her this long to mention the lack of a working class agenda and how we have to point to that its the billionaires at fault... yet she was in coalition with Mark Cuban. Like it's clear she's an institutionally-minded person (you may have to be to be an elected official!) despite being so clearly able to articulate what she knows the problem is. She points out clearly and articulately how Republicans exploit atomization of poor people (!) and try to blame minorities for it under "wokeness" and that Democrats fuel this atomization by failing to address these issues with progressive policy, yet seems often annoyed or frustrated that the very people she refers to become disenfranchised over the actions of the establishment of her party. Edited November 7 by Communion 5 1
Jotham Posted November 7 Posted November 7 This is likely a stretch, but I wonder if the decline of Tumblr has something to do with younger men moving further to the right. Social justice was a huge thing on Tumblr and for a lot of younger people like me, it was how I got educated about left-leaning issues even though I had a relatively conservative upbringing. Now, social media is so stratified in terms of political topics and most of the online spaces that men get into are very right-leaning, especially on Reddit. Even on more mainstream social media outlets like Instagram and Twitter, the accounts that are catered toward younger male audiences are from the far right, which further isolates them. 3
Bamboo Posted November 7 Posted November 7 Just now, Thuggin said: I agree most people are apathetic not outright bigoted, but like how do you fight attacks on our rights when you're dealing with indifference? Genuinely asking because I don't know the answer. The right: *makes it illegal to be trans and bans gay marriage* Us: "They're infringing on LGBT rights!" Everyone: "Ughhhh just stop talking about identity politics already!" I wish they had the same aversion toward identity politics when it comes from an oppressive right wing perspective. But then again, even when people aren't bigoted themselves, bigots are their friends and family and it makes them angry to see them referred to as anything but amazing people. So I'm at a loss how to proceed forward without just letting the right stomp all over us on the cultural issues. I agree. I'm not sure how to campaign on "we support it but we also don't care!" It's a tough spot.
Breathe On Moi Posted November 7 Posted November 7 8 minutes ago, Blankspace2010 said: Project 2025 also wants to ban all porn. So you baguettes better get your fill before January 20th djegvesksheb this part isn't it also banning hook up apps the same way he did away with Craigslist ads last time he was in? they literally have no idea what's coming, clearly.
americanlife Posted November 7 Posted November 7 1 minute ago, Breathe On Moi said: this part isn't it also banning hook up apps the same way he did away with Craigslist ads last time he was in? they literally have no idea what's coming, clearly. Was it really Trump who banned Craigslist ads?
Chiidish Posted November 7 Posted November 7 21 minutes ago, Anthinos said: It's funny but this US election and its result has somehow made me more optimistic. I was really depressed in 2016. Now I'm optimistic and combative. I have the feeling that this election and the victories of the right in Europe were the wake-up call we all needed. Here in Germany, too, a lot is happening in the progressive ranks at the moment. I am proud to be a Progressive and I will not be intimidated by the far right. Yes I feel like this as well. Despite the initial hopelessness. This is for real our last chance at reviving this country. If we can't salvage something in 2 years…we will just say this is the complete collapse of the American colonial empire as we knew it or imagined it. And while some can reasonably take glee in the fall of America's global grip on colonial imperialism, the collateral damage of people who didn't want this to happen is always very tragic, 3
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