Jackson Posted October 13 Posted October 13 15 minutes ago, ZeroSuitBritney said: Agreed with mostly everything you said. However, I think it's safe to say we all know what happened during the 2020 primaries was obviously strategic Trump was the best thing that happened to the Democratic party honestly. His policies and positions hurt the country so much it instilled so much fear in the average Democratic voter. For the past two election cycles, and the current one, the Democratic party is basically running on a "But Trump"/Anti Trump campaign that it doesn't need to actually bring any major changes instead of reversing Trump led consequences like Roe vs Wade, and for the most part it is working. But how long can they keep running on that? For the past three election cycles, the Democratic party has successfully and slowly become more conservative because of the "But Trump" rhetoric being a shield. Democratic voters need to ask themselves... what if the policies that Kamala Harris is running on right now would have been in 2016 with Hillary (or even 2012 with Obama) had Trump not been in the picture. Would they have been okay with these policies? I think the average Democrat wouldn't be very motivated or enthusiastic to run on such policies back then. Trump isn't going to be around forever. Sooner or later, the Democratic party is going to have to move on with actual policy changes that are popular with the majority of Americans, regardless of political affiliation. This includes universal healthcare, free college, and actually campaigning for a livable minimum wage. Hell they can start by ending the constant videos we are seeing online of beheaded babies being murdered on a daily basis with our weapons, which is driving a good chunk of voters to not vote at all or vote for a third party candidate. But when that day comes, they will not only have to make campaign and party promises going forward to enact such popular policies; they will have to answer to why they ran on certain right wing policy changes during the Harris election cycle, which will not be easy for them. As much as I think Kamala's campaign is aligning itself with where voters are right now, Democrats have to figure out a way to drive the narrative rather than just waiting for policies to cycle in and out of popularity. Trump has somehow managed to make the average American favor mass deportations. Why can't Democrats shift the conversation towards things like universal healthcare or free college in this election cycle to their benefit? To some extent it probably is their own fault, but we also have to address the media ecosystem that thrives on covering Trump's chaos and social media companies that profit on disseminating misinformation. There's also deeper institutional problems like the filibuster and structure of the senate that make running on progressive policies difficult right now. I honestly have no idea what the Republican party will be post-2024, especially if Trump loses. There's a non-zero chance he runs again, or handpicks his successor. I think it's unlikely that Republicans will stop demonizing immigrants and accepting the results of elections. At the same time, if Kamala loses, there's a good chance Democrats move to the left again like they did post-2016 since it's easier to react to Trump's terrible policies than it is to defend an uneventful Kamala presidency with an R senate. 5
Communion Posted October 13 Posted October 13 47 minutes ago, Jackson said: That's why Biden won the primary in 2020 and ultimately the election. Voters wanted a safe, diplomatic, electable candidate rather than another populist (Bernie) or four more years of Trump. This is an objectively false recollection of the 2020 primary not by the thesis but conclusion. Exit poll after exit poll showed even huge percentages of Biden voters wanted Bernie's policies. Bernie often even won Biden voters in exit poll questions like "what candidate cares more about people like you?". It was Bernie's populism - his progressive policies and rhetoric about people's suffering - that made him the electoral threat he was against Biden. Exit polls also showed though most voters weighed beating Trump over getting policies they wanted and voters feared Bernie couldn't beat Trump based on the massive media campaign and arguments from the right wing of the Dem party. 2 1
woohoo Posted October 13 Posted October 13 30 minutes ago, Blade said: Oh my mental health is in the gutter. The only thing keeping me alive is the early vote data from PA/MI. And even then, I view it with skepticism / cautious optimism. Same here. I was a mental mess until I saw the early voting dating. I despise polls with everything in me but actual voting data I can get behind. 3
Jackson Posted October 13 Posted October 13 1 minute ago, Communion said: This is an objectively false recollection of the 2020 primary not by the thesis but conclusion. Exit poll after exit poll showed even huge percentages of Biden voters wanted Bernie's policies. Bernie often even won Biden voters in exit poll questions like "what candidate cares more about people like you?". It was Bernie's populism - his progressive policies and rhetoric about people's suffering - that made him the electoral threat he was against Biden. Exit polls also showed though most voters weighed beating Trump over getting policies they wanted and voters feared Bernie couldn't beat Trump based on the massive media campaign and arguments from the right wing of the Dem party. I don't think we're really disagreeing. I don't think Biden's policies are what won him the primary, it was his status as a career politician that exemplified stability and electability. People liked Bernie's policies but wanted them packaged in a politician more like Biden, which is why Biden ultimately moved to the left during the primary. 2
anti-bitch Posted October 13 Posted October 13 8 minutes ago, GhostBox said: Not again 💀 They must have told him to never answer it directly. If he says it was stolen he might get sued by the voting machine makers, but if he admits loss he'd turn off the Maga voters
GhostBox Posted October 13 Posted October 13 7 minutes ago, FameFatale said: This is exactly where they should be sending him 👏🏼👏🏼
anti-bitch Posted October 13 Posted October 13 I miss that feeling of seeing Fox News announce Joe Biden wins Arizona in 2020. It was euphoric. Hoping to feel it again next month. 1 1
GhostBox Posted October 13 Posted October 13 Return your mail in ballots and let's win this thing 👏🏼👏🏼🎉 2
GhostBox Posted October 13 Posted October 13 6 minutes ago, anti-***** said: I miss that feeling of seeing Fox News announce Joe Biden wins Arizona in 2020. It was euphoric. Hoping to feel it again next month. The meltdowns the right had 💀 and the fact it was a very early call but they were right in the end 👏🏼 1
Popular Post Relampago. Posted October 13 Popular Post Posted October 13 (edited) Here to drop a quick POV after canvassing again this weekend in AZ Let me caveat all of this by saying, I am just one person with one point of view out of many, but these are my true observations. I have to say, standing by and watching the bickering in here has made me realize… yes. A lot of you do seem somewhat out of touch with what's happening on the ground. Perhaps it's just the difference in the areas of where we live but I can affirm that the sentiments with the people I've been talking to are so far removed from the discussions happening in here. I think this thread is too deep in the weeds to really have a good view of what's going on. First, let me start off by saying, alot of people are very much voting out of fear. There is very little motivation outside of that. Both for Trump and Harris voters. Trump voters are scared about their income and the "rising crime" narrative. Harris voters are scared of the government corruption and bodily autonomy (even outside of abortion/IVF). BOTH are terrified of the level of division and hatred in this country. Second, I'd like to touch on the bipartisan comments because Harris has pushed for that a lot recently and it's a part of what we talk about to these voters. Let me say straight up: It's generally very well received. Not because either side actually cares to have the other side weigh in on decisions, but because again… division is a huge concern of theirs and they appreciate Harris reaching across the aisle. Maybe people here feel like that's not a good thing, but I only talked to one person out of maybe… 40-50 that had reservations about it. Third, these people just… do not care about the things that are constantly argued about in here, from Palestine to Medicare. In regards to Palestine, they are far more concerned about what's happening here in the US. This one older man said this that stuck with me: "Why do people make such a big deal about wars when there's a war brewing in this country?" in regards to Trump assassination attempts. Obviously pretty exaggerated, but a lot of people are way more concerned about the events unfolding here than what's happening across the world. They also have a lot of faith in their medical care honestly and are scared to lose it because they don't trust the government to run all of their medical care. There's a lot of education that needs to be done, because they support the concept but lack the trust in the government to give up the care they have now. And last… the polls honestly should just shut the **** up. I'm a bit fed up with them. They're honestly not giving any useful info and only continue to cause more division and fighting than what's necessary. Until they can figure out how to get more people to respond, all they're doing is polling the most partisan people who aren't exactly representative of the country at large. Also, when you see polls saying "55% of people support MASS DEPORTATION!"… I spoke to many people who agree with that but they don't understand the details or what that even means. Many assumed it would just be for criminals or gangs, not the 70 year old doña they live next to or the elotero their kids get snacks from every day. A lot of us here are way too informed to the point that we see data without consideration for who's answering these questions. Blue MAGA and MAGA are not the majority in this country, very, very, very far from it. I think this thread would do well to remember that going into election day. Come what may, but people need to stop making enemies because there is a real hope in this country regardless of who wins, it's the loud, uncompromising voices causing noisy chaos that are hurting us the most. Edited October 13 by Relampago. 11 11
Blade Posted October 13 Posted October 13 My grandma is watching Univision and I was expecting it to be soft ball on Trump but they called out his "bad genes" comment, cited the economists' consensus that Kamala's plans would be better for the economy than Trump's, and showed how to fill out a ballot. All 3 different segments. Please let the Latino moms and grandma's show up. 13
ZeroSuitBritney Posted October 13 Posted October 13 (edited) The list of the top posters of this thread 1 sneak though. Edited October 13 by ZeroSuitBritney 2
Relampago. Posted October 13 Posted October 13 4 minutes ago, Blade said: My grandma is watching Univision and I was expecting it to be soft ball on Trump but they called out his "bad genes" comment, cited the economists' consensus that Kamala's plans would be better for the economy than Trump's, and showed how to fill out a ballot. All 3 different segments. Please let the Latino moms and grandma's show up. These women are the sweetest people you'll meet. So many of my most pleasant interactions were with the tias and abuelas who were just happy to see a young person trying to make a difference, even if they didn't agree with me. Again, some of these woman were pretty sold on Trump, but you'd be hard pressed to convince me they're evil people. 6
Blade Posted October 13 Posted October 13 8 minutes ago, Relampago. said: These women are the sweetest people you'll meet. So many of my most pleasant interactions were with the tias and abuelas who were just happy to see a young person trying to make a difference, even if they didn't agree with me. Again, some of these woman were pretty sold on Trump, but you'd be hard pressed to convince me they're evil people. I know it's such a small sample, but after 2 canvassing rounds how are you feeling on the ground for Arizona? Lean Harris or Lean Trump? Also, have you had any luck switching an undecided or is everyone pretty settled into who they want to vote for?
Blade Posted October 13 Posted October 13 I'm shocked that NYT finds historic Black and Latino support for Trump but their last national poll was like Harris +4 I mean their last poll also contained the Florida +13 poll. Nothing makes sense. 5 1
GhostBox Posted October 13 Posted October 13 Again I know Bill is problematic this day and age but he's the perfect person to send to the country to motivate older Dems especially older black voters 👏🏼 1 1 1
Blade Posted October 13 Posted October 13 (edited) The fact that Detroit will easily hit 1/5 of its 2020 turnout JUST from mail-in votes almost a week before any in-person early voting. If Dems can turn out like 280,000 voters (up from 257k in 2020) that would be awesome. Edited October 13 by Blade 4
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