Relampago. Posted October 10 Posted October 10 Just now, noodlelymph said: Lol Literally just ignore how she's gone to the right of prior dem admins on immigration, genocide, starting a war with Iran (literally foreign policy is where the president has the MOST power), cop funding, military funding, fracking, oil drilling permits, increased privatization of medicare. Y'all need to srsly wake the f up But what's the angle here? I acknowledge all of this but none of this changes with Trump and only gets worse Like we're awake sis! But what's next! What now? 6
noodlelymph Posted October 10 Posted October 10 19 hours ago, Relampago. said: I'm in agreement with you, I just wrote essays today about why I have 0 hope she'll actually move left. Although the progressive voters you seem to be talking about aren't just the Twitter girls and the tankies in here (no shade), it's the non-voters who are completely disillusioned with politics and have drawn their line in the sand by not bothering to vote at all since they see the two as the same. I know the loud, very small minority of progressive voters get dragged in here constantly but there already has been lines in the sand for years now. It's not really the fault of people who are the most vocal about progressive policy, that's far too small of a percentage to ever make a meaningful difference in the outcome of national elections. I think you misinterpreted my use of "progressive." I'm referring to a large swathe of self described progressives who have now fallen in line three times behind corporate dem presidential candidates who are comfortable chasing republicans over their guaranteed votes from said "progressives" 1
Jackson Posted October 10 Posted October 10 13 minutes ago, Vermillion said: My vibes don't matter here nor does anyone else's I suppose, but in roughly early September I had a slight feeling Harris could pull this out. No more. Would be a broken record to unpack why, again, for the 7th time, but I'm sad. Mostly exhausted. But not surprised. That's all. I'm done, can't wait for this to all be over. I know you're just talking about "vibes" but I'm not sure I understand how the facts have gotten worse for her since then. In early September, I felt a lot worse because we were coming off convention/debate bumps and a lot of people were saying that the honeymoon was about to end. A month later, the polling is pretty much the same and there's no current events driving her polling lead. It's still very much a toss-up, but I feel more confident than I have at any point since July. 2
RihRihGirrrl Posted October 10 Posted October 10 The U.S Presidental election will always be a binary choice....the both sides are evil mantra is just a cop out. There is always one option that's better than the other and whichever one you choose (directly or indirectly) is your perogative.....but just be willing to take what comes with it. 5 1 1
noodlelymph Posted October 10 Posted October 10 2 minutes ago, Relampago. said: But what's the angle here? I acknowledge all of this but none of this changes with Trump and only gets worse Like we're awake sis! But what's next! What now? Its too late now but this genuinely was THE election for third party candidates to receive record votes as proof to the Dem party establishment to not take their progressive base for granted. The damage is done now with everyone pledging their support with zero concession. Maybe folks will wise up for 2028 but democracy is going to be on the line then too I'm guessing 1 3
Relampago. Posted October 10 Posted October 10 (edited) 3 minutes ago, noodlelymph said: I think you misinterpreted my use of "progressive." I'm referring to a large swathe of self described progressives who have now fallen in line three times behind corporate dem presidential candidates who are comfortable chasing republicans over their guaranteed votes from said "progressives" I actually interpreted that how you meant it though. This is not a meaningful amount of voters to swing an election, despite what a vocal minority on Twitter might say. If that were true, then we should be taking the blame for 2016 Trump happening. Edited October 10 by Relampago.
GhostBox Posted October 10 Posted October 10 The election has been a complete toss up since Harris entered it. Even when the vibes were off the chart all the data still pointed to basically a toss up. Its till is that to this day. 1
wastedpotential Posted October 10 Posted October 10 37 minutes ago, Communion said: This is a fallacy given that Dems are giving 1/6th the money to Allred than they are giving to someone set to lose bigly like Jon Tester. Dems aren't trying to win Texas. There is just no meaningful definition of popularism - no matter what insane people like Matt Yglesias say - that defends running against things like the below issues: *States that allow undocumented migrants to have driver licenses: 19 states + DC **States that allow undocumented migrants access to CHIP or emergency coverage under Medicaid: 22 states + DC (x) ***States that allow undocumented migrants to pay in-state tuition rates when paying for college: 25 states + DC (x) * - includes NEVADA **- includes MICHIGAN (+TEXAS) ***- includes ARIZONA (+TEXAS) These policies are the law of the land in so many states that the above represent anywhere on each issue from 50% to 67% of the country. Kamala Harris should not be so far-right she's running against immigration policy that two-thirds of the nation supports. I can't speak for other states, but there being a gap between public opinion and law doesn't surprise me on this issue. The Texas state legislature meets every other year for 5 months (and usually takes ~1 month off within that timeframe), so there's really not a lot of time to legislate in that window, but some notable items they passed during the last session include an attempted total crackdown on sanctuary cities/counties (which I think is held up in court at the moment), the allocation of well over a billion dollars to border hardening and increased policing, increasing minimum sentencing for smuggling (which was written in a way that could apply to immigrants being smuggled themselves), and of course provided the legal framework for any police officer in the state to arrest anyone they assume crossed into the state illegally. I'm sure once someone reminds the esteemed members of the legislature that they provide healthcare and education benefits for undocumented immigrants they'll get right on with stripping them away. Hell, the state foster system has been essentially destroyed because legislature has been chipping away at it's funding and support through the guise of preventing immigrants from smuggling their children in to take advantage of the services (which is not something happening, but is the point of conversation on the issue). And yes, Allred is running a very competitive race on a pretty thin budget (and we can have conversations about the DNC flushing money down the toilet with Jon Tester), but he will win few favors by running to the left on immigration. I mean... I would be SHOCKED to meet a voter out there whose attitude in the Senate election is "Allred is too conservative on this issue, so I'm gonna vote for Ted Cruz instead " , and I'd also be surprised to come across a voter who was willing to overlook Harris's immigration stance but not Allred's. I've said that at the presidential level, Texas is not in play this year and Democrats are right to not get distracted, but there is definitely potential in 2028 or 2032 if the giant suburban counties (Ft. Bend and Montgomery Counties outside Houston, Williamson County outside Austin, Collin and Denton Counties outside Dallas are all over 700k people, not to mention Tarrant County, home to over 2 million people and Fort Worth, which Biden won on a 1,800 vote margin) continue their trajectories. We'll have to see how the issue plays out here, but unless something changes radically, any Democratic state-wide victory will have to go through them, and that campaign will have to contend with "we want abortion but no immigrants" voters. 1
noodlelymph Posted October 10 Posted October 10 1 minute ago, RihRihGirrrl said: The U.S Presidental election will always be a binary choice....the both sides are evil mantra is just a cop out. There is always one option that's better than the other and whichever one you choose (directly or indirectly) is your perogative.....but just be willing to take what comes with it. You saying it's "always a binary choice" is the *actual* cop out excuse of not preventing it from being so. If I'm seeing, as Te Nehisi Coates said, a black woman pledging to continue dropping bombs on brown children while invoking Shirley Chisholm, it doesn't get anymore evil than that 4
Blade Posted October 10 Posted October 10 If anyone wants a break from the pollercoaster (the Q polls in MI/WI has all of ET dooming worse than ever before), I'll offer this hope as someone who still thinks the election isn't lost but just as much Kamala's as it is Trumps to win. The only things we have right now are the 2024 primaries (including 23/22 specials + midterms) as actually data to use to predict what will happen in November. The consensus based on this alone? A slightly blue year. Bluer than 2020 but not by much. 2020 was so close on the margins just like 2016 (just tens of thousands of votes from a Clinton win and a 2nd Trump term) that this shouldn't be viewed as a slam dunk for Dems but a cautiously optimistic hope that Trump is not running away with this election. Ground game can decide this election. Yes, I know Kamala has an edge, I'm not saying her edge on the ground is a slam dunk either. But her campaign needs to use that edge to its full potential from now until ED. We also have early voting data which will only show meaningful results in like 2 weeks and only a few people like Ralston (NV) and @blockedfreq (PA) can really give their best educated analysis on when the time comes. Don't trust people like Bouzey who are trying to interpret data this early and making definitive calls. 2 5
Relampago. Posted October 10 Posted October 10 I kinda refuse to subscribe to the idea that the country isn't salvageable. I don't care if Trump wins, then we'll just have to fight harder next time. It'll be scarier but there's no other option. If he wins, perhaps we will get a chance at a more progressive democratic party. I don't know. But the doom and gloom isn't going to help anyone, and I've seen so much "this country is ****ed" on Twitter, as if this country hasn't always had issues. 2 3
Vermillion Posted October 10 Posted October 10 Was wondering when we'd enter the trans kids portion of the prez race given Cruz started his ad over a month ago I think. Kind of late, but here we go… 3
Blade Posted October 10 Posted October 10 Now a less data driven and purely vibes based hopium. I was reading a Reddit thread where someone described something similar to that AZ Canvassing story of women hiding their Harris vote from their husbands. They even described that one of them got polled and told the pollster she was voting Trump because I'd assume her husband was around during the survey. God I can only hope women are the "shy Trump voters" of 2024....but not for Trump of course. 3
Relampago. Posted October 10 Posted October 10 Also should Trump win, he's got a big ****ing storm coming and he's going to put idiots in charge who can't handle it. It'll be a rough 4 years, but I can't fathom a world where Trump and the Republican Party come out of this term as successful and popular. They can try the Project 2025 **** but they're going to bite themselves in the ass. 1 1
RihRihGirrrl Posted October 10 Posted October 10 4 minutes ago, Vermillion said: Was wondering when we'd enter the trans kids portion of the prez race given Cruz started his ad over a month ago I think. Kind of late, but here we go… Everything about this moron is based on fear, hate and lies 2
ClashAndBurn Posted October 10 Posted October 10 25 minutes ago, Harrier said: As soon as I saw this clip I knew they would do this. Harris' loyalty to Biden, while understandable on an interpersonal level, is becoming a big political liability. She needs to throw him under the bus a bit I feel, but she is refusing to. Particularly on foreign policy and on inflation. Kamala is too nice. Give us some political ruthlessness mama Why would she throw him under the bus when she agrees with him on literally everything? He's a big part of the reason she is running to the right of where he was in 2020. Why? Because that's how he already established this campaign by adopting Trump's 2016 immigration stances as the bipartisan and reasonable path forward. OF COURSE she's not going to differ from Biden, and if she would, it'd be to say she's more willing to pander to Republican sensibilities and have a Republican in her cabinet because Biden was also already starting to cave on that front too. I don't know why it's taking so long to figure out how she has literally branded herself a continuation of Biden just as much as Hillary was branded a continuation of Obama? 3
Communion Posted October 10 Posted October 10 6 minutes ago, Relampago. said: But what's the angle here? I acknowledge all of this but none of this changes with Trump and only gets worse Like we're awake sis! But what's next! What now? I think the issue is - and I get it's not really helpful for some of you feeling anxious - is that the cause for these different reactions in what is essentially a giant game of chicken is that..... there's a very unique experience to know Hillary Clinton wad a dog **** candidate, be told she had the better chance, and then... her dumb ass loses jklnkjn. This isn't to say life under Trump would be great. Of course not. It wasn't greater from 2016-2020 either. But clicking my heels three times already didn't do anything. How do I say it politely... To support Clinton, believe her philosophy was right, and support her earnestly, only to see her lose... is just being let down by one's own naivety. To know Clinton was the wrong candidate, be gaslighted over what you saw, and to see her lose for the very reasons you saw... is blackpilling. And that blackpilling causes someone to establish a reasonable distance between themselves and thinking any of us as individual have any meaningful impact on voting that we have to lie to ourselves and hype ourselves up with almost corporate-slanted jargon - be the team player, be the good employee, trust the mission, etc. This isn't Peter Pan. Democrats are not Tinkerbell. No amount of clapping we can do is going to increase Harris' chances of winning. All you can do as a voter is go: "I think this is important, I want this." And if the closest candidate to you says "**** you, die".. oh well. Got no one to vote for then. But then if that person loses... clearly they wanted to lose. If Kamala Harris loses in a month, it's going to be because she wanted to lose. I can't change that. I earnestly believed I was wrong in 2016. I earnestly believed "no, they were right, we must trust the process, trust the mission."... and that evil dumb ***** still lost!!! 2
FameFatale Posted October 10 Posted October 10 The AZ Senate debate is going on right now and Kari Lake is a mess. 1 2
wastedpotential Posted October 10 Posted October 10 3 minutes ago, Vermillion said: I KNOW this is the worst timeline, because MITT ROMNEY playing the role of "Reasonable Republican" is some sort of Lovecraftian horror 1 2
Recommended Posts