Bears01 Posted October 8 Posted October 8 14 minutes ago, Bloo said: The truly s***ty thing about this is that we have seen the following scenarios with Trump: (i) Trump wins against a centrist Democrat and (ii) a centrist Democrat beats Trump. Only one of these scenarios resulted in the Democrats moving to the left and it wasn't the one where Trump loses. Like, I know a lot of liberals get nervous around this conversation, but this paradox is why the "vote Blue no matter who" mantra falls flat and why many people are tired of it. I was a vote Blue no matter who champion back in 2016 and I feel the fatigue because what I was told would happen simply didn't and it's extremely frustrating. In terms of policy up until, I wanna say the rail strike union busting or 10/7/23, I think democrats for the better moved left on areas that I didn't expect them to. Putting Lina Khan in charge of the FTC and being strong against anti trust, billions of dollars into specifically helping out the teamsters union In The ARP, being able for Medicare to take charge of prescription drug prices, and expanding the IRS to go after tax cheats…..all good and popular policy!!!!!! 10/7 onwards has been a different story. 3 2
Tovitov Posted October 8 Posted October 8 None of Biden's policies are all that unpopular. If Biden were 10 years younger and more articulate, he'd probably be performing like Harris. 1
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted October 8 ATRL Moderator Posted October 8 3 minutes ago, Bears01 said: In terms of policy up until, I wanna say the rail strike union busting or 10/7/23, I think democrats for the better moved left on areas that I didn't expect them to. Putting Lina Khan in charge of the FTC and being strong against anti trust, billions of dollars into specifically helping out the teamsters union In The ARP, being able for Medicare to take charge of prescription drug prices, and expanding the IRS to go after tax cheats…..all good and popular policy!!!!!! 10/7 onwards has been a different story. Biden was overall better than I expected him to be—particularly around labor up until the rail strike union. I still couldn't stand him. But my bar was below the floor for him. 2
GhostBox Posted October 8 Posted October 8 1 minute ago, Tovitov said: None of Biden's policies are all that unpopular. If Biden were 10 years younger and more articulate, he'd probably be performing like Harris. Literally 2016 Biden would be doing Harris numbers or better 🤷 1
GhostBox Posted October 8 Posted October 8 6 minutes ago, Bloo said: Biden was overall better than I expected him to be—particularly around labor up until the rail strike union. I still couldn't stand him. But my bar was below the floor for him. Well hopefully that means Harris will be better than you expect too 🎉💃🏽
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted October 9 ATRL Moderator Posted October 9 4 minutes ago, GhostBox said: Well hopefully that means Harris will be better than you expect too 🎉💃🏽 Biden was campaigning more progressively than he served as president, so the trend doesn't support that regrettably. 2
Wonderland Posted October 9 Posted October 9 55 minutes ago, Lil Mistee said: I knew the masc for masc gays were Trump voters
Wonderland Posted October 9 Posted October 9 39 minutes ago, GhostBox said: I'm so excited to watch this race tbh 3
Blade Posted October 9 Posted October 9 Turned in my ballot for Kamala today Voted straight dem and for all the YIMBY state, county, and city measures (hihi @Communion) We'll see if they pass 2 6
Relampago. Posted October 9 Posted October 9 26 minutes ago, Communion said: I think what's frustrating to a lot of progressives is that we have already seen how liberal populism... does not work in the long-run for Dems! Trying to do Obama 2.0 is scary to progressives because Obama's failures ushered in Trump! Which is part of the frustration progressives had in liberals trying to claim Trump's ascension was 100% and only whitelash, as it simply doesn't allow for a meaningful diagnosis and strategy to combat it. "These people who voted for Obama twice were always secretly racist and will always be racist and nothing can be done to beat Republicans". Sanders' student loan and free college policy became so popular because Obama did the neoliberal thing of increased Pell Grants without meaningfully addressing the cost of college, ending up just locking in millions of poor, first generation students into now tens of thousands of dollars of debt. Medicare For All became a popular rallying call and shot up in popularity because Dems under Obama burnt their political capital up passing a watered-down ACA propped up by neoliberal tax incentives and credits that Republicans set-up to fail, resulting in the below: But these movements cannot take off if there is no one to vocalize the needs for progressive policies. And such frustration will just find a new home amongst inevitable failure. Copying Obama's far-right approach to immigration, foreign policy, and labor just seems odd when Obama created the conditions for Trump to win. Defending a conservative Kamala Harris campaign is tantamount to casting a vote in advance for an even smarter, more fascist disciple of Trump. Voting conservative Dems into office accelerates Republicans returning to office and is in effect just a vote for Republicans to begin with. I can agree with liberal populism being a failure, simply because it doesn't address the main ideas behind a populist movement and only offers half-baked policies that are picked apart by the time they're implemented. Compromising from the center left at best only led to us ending up somewhere on the right, rather than starting from the far left and compromising somewhere that leaves us still on the left. But despite Trump being a symptom of a greater issue, he himself has shifted politics in a way that will undeniably make it more difficult for the more savory policy to make way. We are entering a post-truth society that believes Kamala Harris is a radical Marxist and Biden is creating once-in-a-lifetime weather events with a machine. Despite Obama's clear failures, we're now faced with a much different reality than we experienced in 2016. I couldn't tell you why the Democratic Party feels that the answer is to move right; I suspect it's at least in part due to not wanting to prove those "radical" claims correct, while the other part is protecting the interests of big business and lobbyists. What I do know is that we aren't going to get anywhere trying to push Harris left, nor will we get anywhere by letting Trump win. It's lose-lose, and while I'm happy to point fingers at Obama because you're correct in that he created the environment for Trump to take power, but as you said, he also created the environment for progressives like Bernie and The Squad circa 2016-2020 to have more of an impact than they otherwise would have. Obama made the case that neoliberal half-baked policies are proven to not be enough, so we must strive for more. Trump's base is unmoving, he could be a total failure in this upcoming term but he would still be lauded as the second coming of Reagan. Under a Harris presidency, it's much easier to make the case that her lack of differentiation from Biden calls for more progressive policy to be enacted since it is possible to convince Democrats to give power to progressive party members moreso than it is to convince hardcore Republicans that Trump himself is a fake populist who failed to increase the quality of life in the US. Let me be clear, I take no issue with those who want to vote 3rd party, especially in states where the vote is inconsequential and even in swing states where people truly believe they aren't being heard such as the Muslim and Arab-American population in Michigan. But I do think we have to be honest in saying that the only possible winners in 2024 are Harris or Trump and no one else. I personally will cast my vote for Harris because I see a much clearer path forward in spite of her inevitable impotent administration, but I also see Trump's administration making it much harder to move forward more quickly. That's really the core reason I find myself pushing for her to win. 4 2
Wonderland Posted October 9 Posted October 9 29 minutes ago, Vermillion said: Oh but Walz is the fake lying fraud for what he said about being in Hong Kong. Got it 2
dabunique Posted October 9 Posted October 9 holding steady at 165 Wednesday night into Thursday morning. Looks like Tampa Bay Area will be spared 3
bunnyeyes Posted October 9 Posted October 9 How are the girlies here feeling about Harris and dems completely abandoning talking about DACAmented youth? It's sad and bleak here. 1
FameFatale Posted October 9 Posted October 9 My mom was talking about some crazy ridiculous things this afternoon. She has fell into the hurricane conspiracies unfortunately. She was saying there's a specific item the government puts in the gulf to stir up hurricanes and then something about NC was hit because of their lithium mining. I tried to argue with her but it's useless. I don't know who she is anymore. I thought she was over all this. 2 1
woohoo Posted October 9 Posted October 9 1 minute ago, FameFatale said: My mom was talking about some crazy ridiculous things this afternoon. She has fell into the hurricane conspiracies unfortunately. She was saying there's a specific item the government puts in the gulf to stir up hurricanes and then something about NC was hit because of their lithium mining. I tried to argue with her but it's useless. I don't know who she is anymore. I thought she was over all this. There's so many like you losing family to Fox News and newsmax. It's country wide and sad honestly. It's like elder gen x and boomers are losing their ******* minds. 2 7
Lil Mistee Posted October 9 Posted October 9 4 minutes ago, FameFatale said: My mom was talking about some crazy ridiculous things this afternoon. She has fell into the hurricane conspiracies unfortunately. She was saying there's a specific item the government puts in the gulf to stir up hurricanes and then something about NC was hit because of their lithium mining. I tried to argue with her but it's useless. I don't know who she is anymore. I thought she was over all this. I'm sorry! My friend lost his very liberal mother to the facebook ad targeting. She's a NUT job now like insane, she things gay people run pedo rings and ****. It's like they die, it's sad 2 3
shelven Posted October 9 Posted October 9 1 hour ago, Vermillion said: I'm kinda convinced she's just openly lying about owning a gun Or at the very least, she's effectively lying because she only bought it for the sole purpose of getting to say she has one in all these interviews. 1 1 7
Recommended Posts