news 2024 US Election Megathread 🇺🇸🏛️

[Communion]

Also:

12 minutes ago, Harriser said:

You act like Harris has betrayed you

You can't circle the square that is the Biden-Harris admin hehe.

 

Literally any angry liberal retort of "YOU PURITY-OBSESSED ONLINE LEFTISTS" is met with Joe Biden 5 minutes later being like "AND I AM PROUD TO PROMOTE ADOLF MCHITLERLITE, PROUD AFGHAN WAR VETERAN, TO HELP OVERSEE OUR NEWEST $50B SHIPMENT OF MISSILES TO ISRAEL THAT CAN DIRECTLY FOLLOW & TRACE HUMAN BODY HEAT!". 

 

Edited August 24 by Communion

[Relampago.]

53 minutes ago, Communion said:

Anyway, such was probably divine intervention because this post ended up being a premonition:

Last night was... a rollercoaster. The emotional upheaval to find the beginning of her speech emotional and touching, to finding the middle portion clunky and idiosyncratic, to sitting there in dead silence while watching a WOC brag about America's military being lethal and deliver such jingoism and affection for bloodshed it felt like a caricature.

 

Trying to somehow link being a county prosecutor for women undergoing domestic violence and linking it to spreading propaganda about mass rape used as a weapon of war by Hamas, such claims themselves debunked by independent UN investigations even, was wild to see actually attempted. She's genuinely terrifying as a politician.

 

There was a cabal of liberals following the speech posting about "ATRL doomers!!" but I walked away from the speech pretty satisfied. It became clear Harris is not running a left-wing political project. That her campaign is actively purging leftists and courting Republicans. And it was never more clear nor easier to accept it is morally wrong to try and fashion one's self as a leftist yet aid and abet such a right-wing political project. It was easy to come to the conclusion to vote Green come November.

 

It's actually a relief that she is so squarely right-wing. There was actual worry in 2020 that olive branches between Biden and Sanders, and the unique material reality of the pandemic, could see a Biden loss attributed to the left. 2024 is not 2020. The Democrats have never been this removed from leftists or this anti-progressive in at least 20 years. There's nothing owed and anyone who identifies as a leftist should seriously interrogate why they feel burdened by such self-imposed guilt over voting 3rd party that they have to make themselves sick to the stomach enough to eventually vote for someone who very vocally does not want their vote. At some point, you should respect yourself.

 

Even the folksy liberal populism was largely dropped from the speech. Hearing her wheel out championing "increased access to capital for entrepreneurs" as her main economic policy pitch for the first time was fun.

 

Of course this is not a popular view in liberal-coded places given the hostility liberals show to leftists who vote 3rd party. I'm sure many people who have tirelessly defended blowing up Palestinian children will downvote this post, but.. also... these very same users got what they wanted! This is not a party for progressives in this current iteration! It's a party for people like Adam Kinzinger, Ana Navarro, and other Anti-Trump Republicans.

It really is a sad state of affairs. Especially after I had so much hope in the progressive wing of the party after 2020.

 

In a way, the best thing that could happen for this country is Kamala losing. Another rejection of neoliberal policy and centrist politics that kill the most vulnerable populations in this country and globally would hopefully make a statement, but that's likely wishful thinking anyways.

 

I know Trump will definitely cause problems as well, and more severely, but at some point the existence of the Republican Party cannot be used as a threat to force votes for a party who is failing to be a party of the people as they claim. At some people, liberals and Democrats need to have a come to Jesus moment and realize that the current plans just aren't working and people are getting fed up across the entire world, not just here.

 

We may be able to delay Trump, but he has changed this country in a way that neoliberal polices cannot undo, and they are what got us here in the first place. While Republicans are upfront about their plans, Democrats are sinister in a way that they disguise their villainy with rainbows and BLM fists while denying trans people free healthcare and refusing to support defunding police departments.

 

I get that there's "strategy! we gotta play the game to win!" but that's short term thinking. Trump is just one problem, but it's time to accept that the call is coming from inside the house as well. I'll be voting for Kamala because I fear what could happen otherwise, but if she loses, it'll be no one's fault but her own. I am thankful to have the right to vote to protect my own freedoms, but if a Palestinian protestor were to scream in my face that my vote is killing their people, they would be correct and I could say nothing to deny that. What an awful scenario, and it's the reality of it all.

 

There's going be a breaking point, and it'll shake this country harder than 2016 ever could. Change is coming, and we can be tactical with it by moving to more progressive policy NOW or we can continue delaying that change until it consumes all of us and the disaster that liberals believe leftists and progressives are trying to cause will manifest.

 

And I know people will just see this as a doomed post, but I do have hope that one day this country will be better. I only hope that it becomes better before the karma that politicians, the wealthy and cold hearted people have built up eats us all with them.

[ClashAndBurn]

2 minutes ago, Relampago. said:

In a way, the best thing that could happen for this country is Kamala losing. Another rejection of neoliberal policy and centrist politics that kill the most vulnerable populations in this country and globally would hopefully make a statement, but that's likely wishful thinking anyways.

The reaction to Kamala losing will be that Joe Manchin will be the next nominee in 2028. Whose "progressive outreach" will probably be him having John Fetterman as his VP. Is Kamala moving the party to the hard right? Yes. Further right than Bush, Bush, and Reagan? Yes. But the takeaway will always be that she appealed too much to the thankless left, and should have pivoted more to pick up white West Virginia coal miners instead of working class people of color from Milwaukee.

[Communion]

12 minutes ago, Harriser said:

the way you all position voting

"Disagreeing with the claim that children do not have an inherent right to see and visit their incarcerated parent is purity politics!!"

 

For every angry post finger-wagging about "purity politics", there's some freakier, even weirder DNC speaker with crueler views than the last! It just won't stop! Wow!

 

Everyone knows deep down that anyone defending Democrats making a mad dash to the right (and thus participating in a race to the bottom) don't actually have any convictions in this attempted defense and themselves are just thinking "wtf is wrong with American Democrats???" with every new retort an American leftist is able to bring up of Democrats spiraling into cruel and unusual behavior. 

Edited August 24 by Communion

[Relampago.]

1 minute ago, ClashAndBurn said:

The reaction to Kamala losing will be that Joe Manchin will be the next nominee in 2028. Whose "progressive outreach" will probably be him having John Fetterman as his VP. Is Kamala moving the party to the hard right? Yes. Further right than Bush, Bush, and Reagan? Yes. But the takeaway will always be that she appealed too much to the thankless left, and should have pivoted more to pick up white West Virginia coal miners instead of working class people of color from Milwaukee.

Unfortunately, that's probably the case. 
 

That's why I take so much issue with the "we need to win!" stance. Beyond the fact progressive policies like M4A are popular, for the Democratic Party it's about winning and making sure that the money stays in their pockets and elite friends don't get too upset, since they need them close by for some good 'ol' insider trading. 

 

Sure, I don't believe Harris will take my right to marry away or allow me to be fired for being gay. That is— unless it becomes beneficial to her agenda. I don't know how so many people can be comfortable with that reality. It's poor and brown people today, could be anyone else tomorrow, including us. 

[on the line]

30 minutes ago, Harriser said:

You and the rest of your ilk were headed here regardless, have been desperately searching for reasons to return back to this position. You laughably claim 'divine intervention' but it has been a self fulfilling prophecy from day one and the most predictable thing imaginable. You act like Harris has betrayed you in some way, when you have known from day one that she is not a member of the progressive wing of the party, that she was never going to wake up tomorrow as Cori Bush, and indeed if she did that she would be sent packing in an electoral landslide. You are the same people that now hate Bernie Sanders and AOC - some of the only progressive congresspeople with any real power - because they did not continue your continuous match leftward, and because they are prepared to work with liberals to achieve progressive goals. You are deliberately blind about the realities of appealing to the American electorate, and pretend as if people like Kamala position themselves the way they do for no reason other than that they're just super evil bad people.

 

It is fundamentally childish and stupid to envision voting as a 'moral' act, as you and others do. Voting is a strategic decision based on helping the candidate win who most closely aligns to some kind of political goal - that is it. It is blatantly obvious that Kamala Harris will be immensely better for the American people and those around the world than Donald Trump, but your purist moral handwringing over what a terrible liberal she is manages to obscure this obvious fact in your mind. It is a good thing you represent a tiny minority within a minority, and that you don't live in a swing state. If the French were all like you, we'd have president LePen. Thank god you remain, and will continue to remain, a fringe online communist whose views hold no actual power or currency outside of this forum 

Even an Australian can spot these frauds. 

 

Thanks for speaking up.

[Communion]

26 minutes ago, Relampago. said:

It really is a sad state of affairs. Especially after I had so much hope in the progressive wing of the party after 2020.

 

In a way, the best thing that could happen for this country is Kamala losing. Another rejection of neoliberal policy and centrist politics that kill the most vulnerable populations in this country and globally would hopefully make a statement, but that's likely wishful thinking anyways.

 

I know Trump will definitely cause problems as well, and more severely, but at some point the existence of the Republican Party cannot be used as a threat to force votes for a party who is failing to be a party of the people as they claim. At some people, liberals and Democrats need to have a come to Jesus moment and realize that the current plans just aren't working and people are getting fed up across the entire world, not just here.

 

We may be able to delay Trump, but he has changed this country in a way that neoliberal polices cannot undo, and they are what got us here in the first place. While Republicans are upfront about their plans, Democrats are sinister in a way that they disguise their villainy with rainbows and BLM fists while denying trans people free healthcare and refusing to support defunding police departments.

 

I get that there's "strategy! we gotta play the game to win!" but that's short term thinking. Trump is just one problem, but it's time to accept that the call is coming from inside the house as well. I'll be voting for Kamala because I fear what could happen otherwise, but if she loses, it'll be no one's fault but her own. I am thankful to have the right to vote to protect my own freedoms, but if a Palestinian protestor were to scream in my face that my vote is killing their people, they would be correct and I could say nothing to deny that. What an awful scenario, and it's the reality of it all.

 

There's going be a breaking point, and it'll shake this country harder than 2016 ever could. Change is coming, and we can be tactical with it by moving to more progressive policy NOW or we can continue delaying that change until it consumes all of us and the disaster that liberals believe leftists and progressives are trying to cause will manifest.

 

And I know people will just see this as a doomed post, but I do have hope that one day this country will be better. I only hope that it becomes better before the karma that politicians, the wealthy and cold hearted people have built up eats us all with them.

I can only speak from a leftist perspective, and my only real qualm is that the overt caricature Harris has devolved into really should erase any suggestion that 3rd party voters should feel any kind of self-imposed shame. She's just,... a clearly right-wing candidate, who has branded herself as right-wing, and who does not want left-wing votes.

 

There's nothing to gain for anyone who would identify as a leftist to aid and abet Harris in her attempt to orchestrate the party making a huge shift rightward.

 

Militarism, nationalism, nativism, and anti-Palestinian racism is literally the messaging and branding being workshopped by the party.

 

Democrats have won lots of elections without leftists, are more than free to try and win this election without leftists, and have been at odds with leftists more than have ever embraced leftists. There's again nothing to gain in helping this attempt at elite capture continue to try and house together people who are ideologically opposed to one another. Hearing Harris brag about the efficacy of how well the US is able to brutally kill people should be blackpilling enough to any progressive to understand this isn't for you and we aren't invited to what they're building for their vision of America. 

 

 

 

Edited August 24 by Communion

[Relampago.]

18 minutes ago, on the line said:

Even an Australian can spot these frauds. 

 

Thanks for speaking up.

Didn't you just say you could do without the name-calling to me today? 

 

Truthfully, I find third party voters willing to put their own interests on the line to vote for something more in line with their values to be the opposite of fraud. Those of us who are compromising, like myself, are more "frauds" than anything else. I won't chastise the average person voting out of fear of something like Project 2025 or Republican Boogeyman #57, but those who actively take issue with those uncomfortable with genocide among other injustices need to do some deep soul-searching. 

Edited August 24 by Relampago.

[Ghiles]

Macron's party has actually spent the last 2 years mimicking far-right rhetoric and even passed nasty anti-migrant laws that made LePen ecstatic. Macron himself made shocking transphobic comments shortly after dissolving the parliament and calling for new elections.

 

The center and right trying to appeal to far-right voters by talking about the same core topics (migrants, patriotism, child "safeguarding") seems to be a phenomenon happening all over the world, the latest example being the Democrats and Kopmala.

 

Edited August 24 by Ghiles

[CaptainMusic]

1 hour ago, Harriser said:

Unfortunately for us we function as a satellite state of American foreign policy, so  Doesnt mean my arguments against the way you all position voting are any less true

I don't know why some posters say "we have no stake" in this election when it affects the entire world, especially when their main reason for not voting for Harris is because of Palestine.

 

I find it ironic as well when Communion has constantly lectured people in regards to European and South American elections.   A Trump win emboldens the far right globally and that's why I, and so many other foreigners especially people of colour are following this so closely. 

I agree with you that it was always obvious that they were never going to vote for Harris anyway. If I was American and lived in a swing state, knowing how close the election is I would vote for Harris but I do understand the left's frustration. Everytime Harris says "Israel has a right to defend itself!" like it's an equal war frustrates me and her refusal to support a weapon's embargo and win over voters could unfortunately cost her this election. 
 

It's funny though how the right says Harris is a communist while the left is saying she's right wing  

Edited August 24 by CaptainMusic

[Communion]

54 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

You changing your screen name

Me not even registering this and just thinking to myself, "Damn girl... we really gotta book that eye doctor appointment, this dyslexia is whooping your ass". 

 

Me up'ing the ante and deciding I suddenly am passionate about moving 30 minutes westward and into Philly for a kii and cackle. 

[Communion]

26 minutes ago, CaptainMusic said:

I don't know why some posters say "we have no stake" in this election

Who said this? I was pointing out the irony that the good sis Naus got his ass repeatedly dragged and told his claims lacked both evidence and came off smug due to posting from Argentina. Is there a meaningful difference between a smug, misinformed Argentinian posting in favor of Trump and a smug, misinformed Australian posting in favor of Kamala?

 

The user's past defense of politicians and pundits being transphobic (and lamenting "tyrannical leftists" on the very subject matter) is enough for why I wouldn't hold concern for their opinion more than they just happened to be born in Australia. 

 

(Though there's a compelling argument linking the average center-right liberal Australian's defense of US foreign policy and that they live essentially on a giant US military base for why any Australia defending the US MIC is biased and acting in self-interest)

 

"You're a fanatical purist fringe leftist who doesn't matter and you should accept your views are shared by no one!!!" is just not compelling to me as an attack when coming from someone who I've literally argued back and forth with before about them supporting withholding gender-affirming care from vulnerable trans youth to appease "centrist" concerns about it.  It's "harm reduction!!" until apparently suicidal trans youth matter less than transphobic religious suburbanites who buy into Republican propaganda. 

Edited August 24 by Communion

[ClashAndBurn]

22 minutes ago, CaptainMusic said:

I don't know why some posters say "we have no stake" in this election when it affects the entire world, especially when their main reason for not voting for Harris is because of Palestine.

 

I find it ironic as well when Communion has constantly lectured people in regards to European and South American elections.   A Trump win emboldens the far right globally and that's why I, and so many other foreigners especially people of colour are following this so closely. 

I agree with you that it was always obvious that they were never going to vote for Harris anyway. If I was American and lived in a swing state, knowing how close the election is I would vote for Harris but I do understand the left's frustration. Everytime Harris says "Israel has a right to defend itself!" like it's an equal war frustrates me and her refusal to support a weapon's embargo and win over voters could unfortunately cost her this election. 
 

It's funny though how the right says Harris is a communist while the left is saying she's right wing  

Preferring a candidate to win is one thing. Disparaging an entire group of people as a crazed fringe when their only want an end to Israel's genocide who literally just heard Harris herself pledging that the genocide will continue with a limitless supply of American-made bombs is another.

 

Like, the Democrats are quickly becoming a far-right party themselves at this point. In four years, we've come from squabbling about healthcare costs being too high to begging to our government's deaf ears that they need to stop killing children. The healthcare argument has completely receded, to the point that Dems feel zero urgency to lie about "improving Obamacare" even though it is grossly insufficient. Bernie Sanders and AOC won't even talk about a public option anymore, but they will insist upon Israel's right to defend itself.

[VOSS]

Donald Trump represents a unique threat to our country and world. It's clear why Dems are running toward the center and why politically savvy progressives are giving them leeway to do so.

[Harrier]

18 minutes ago, Communion said:

Who said this? I was pointing out the irony that the good sis Naus got his ass repeatedly dragged and told his claims lacked both evidence and came off smug due to posting from Argentina. Is there a meaningful difference between a smug, misinformed Argentinian posting in favor of Trump and a smug, misinformed Australian posting in favor of Kamala?

 

The user's past defense of politicians and pundits being transphobic (and lamenting "tyrannical leftists" on the very subject matter) is enough for why I wouldn't hold concern for their opinion more than they just happened to be born in Australia. 

 

(Though there's a compelling argument linking the average center-right liberal Australian's defense of US foreign policy and that they live essentially on a giant US military base for why any Australia defending the US MIC is biased and acting in self-interest)

 

"You're a fanatical purist fringe leftist who doesn't matter and you should accept your views are shared by no one!!!" is just not compelling to me as an attack when coming from someone who I've literally argued back and forth with before about them supporting withholding gender-affirming care from vulnerable trans youth to appease "centrist" concerns about it.  It's "harm reduction!!" until apparently suicidal trans youth matter less than transphobic religious suburbanites who buy into Republican propaganda. 

ClashandBurn a few posts up

You can bring up years old arguments I no longer have the same view about as much as you wish, I could do similar things about your various absurd positions we've fought about over the years (though I confess my memory for this isnt as good as yours). The point remains that voting for the Green party because you can't bring yourself 'morally' to vote for Kamala Harris of all people is an absurd purism, end of story.

[ClashAndBurn]

6 minutes ago, VOSS said:

Donald Trump represents a unique threat to our country and world. It's clear why Dems are running toward the center and why politically savvy progressives are giving them leeway to do so.

They are not even at "the center." They are basically the 1980s-2000s GOP now.

 

 

It's not politically savvy to let them do this. It's beyond stupid. Because there's no guarantee they'd ever move back to the center-left after their flirtations with Never Trump neocons, who are a much smaller constituency to appeal to than the left. To the point that they barely exist outside of the media/punditry bubble, where they are grossly overrepresented.

[toxicgenie]

10 minutes ago, VOSS said:

Donald Trump represents a unique threat to our country and world. It's clear why Dems are running toward the center and why politically savvy progressives are giving them leeway to do so.

100%

 

The day after Kamala gets inaugurated you can bet we will protest if she tries any republican foolishness. 

 

[Wonderland]

Oh it's Joever all over again

[Communion]

18 minutes ago, Harriser said:

ClashandBurn a few posts up

You can bring up years old arguments I no longer have the same view about as much as you wish, I could do similar things about your various absurd positions we've fought about over the years (though I confess my memory for this isnt as good as yours). The point remains that voting for the Green party because you can't bring yourself 'morally' to vote for Kamala Harris of all people is an absurd purism, end of story.

Again, the issue on why your opinions are ill-informed are not because you disagree with me but because you won't offer an argument that says something beyond a fallacy of calling views you disagree with fringe and irrelevant. 

 

America doesn't have high turnout rate for elections and has a very large population. Even in 2020, the first year in decades Dems won a plurality of voting age Americans, the split between Dems, Republicans and "Neither" was around 35%/33%/32%. 

 

That amounts to about 80 million Americans deciding to vote third party or deciding to not vote at all. Even if you take out the larger estimate of 5 million disenfranchised Americans, you get 75 million. 

 

If my view is I wouldn't vote for either Harris or Trump, that means more fellow Americans hold my views than there exists people in your country, or in Argentina where Naus lives, or almost as many who live in Germany where I think that other user lives. 

Edited August 24 by Communion

[midnightdawn]

 

[toxicgenie]

1 hour ago, Harriser said:

Unfortunately for us we function as a satellite state of American foreign policy, so  Doesnt mean my arguments against the way you all position voting are any less true

It's ironic that the self-proclaimed righteous and extreme Left mocks you for not being American when many (maybe majority) of their online click are not American either. 

 

And one of their loudest members is from Argentina. 

Edited August 24 by toxicgenie

[ClashAndBurn]

I guess thinking that dancing and mocking protesters is disgusting behavior is also a "purity test" and making the "perfect the enemy of the good."

[Relampago.]

39 minutes ago, toxicgenie said:

100%

 

The day after Kamala gets inaugurated you can bet we will protest if she tries any republican foolishness. 

 

We were told this with Joe Biden too, then we lost Roe v Wade and student loan forgiveness and marijuana legalization and so on and so forth, and that was met with: well, we need to VOTE! Rinse, repeat every 2-4 years.

 

I'm tired, toxicgenie. When will we see meaningful progress? How many times must I hold my nose when all I want is for my fellow human beings to be treated as human beings?  I used to wonder why my parents didn't bother to vote until 2008, but every election it makes more and more sense.

[Relampago.]

3 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

I guess thinking that dancing and mocking protesters is disgusting behavior is also a "purity test" and making the "perfect the enemy of the good."

God, it makes my heart race and my stomach churn. 

 

Even if you don't agree with the protestor's actions, have some ****ing respect and treat others with dignity. It's no wonder the US is the ire of the world when people see us dance and laugh in the face of genocide.

[One Rude Boy]

the run of the mill democrat stans in here don't understand the fundamental core of leftists' political feelings - or, at least, my leftism, and others don't need to agree.

 

I will only vote for someone that I'd be proud to have voted for on my death bed in 60 years. It's not just being pragmatic, it is a moral and ethical choice, I am helping to put this person into power. For me. And I am very open to voting for Harris, but "you're only helping Trump!!" is ridiculous and self-gratifying, you aren't trying to persuade anyone. You are trying to get a one-up, feel superior, and degrade others for the Blue Team