KKKIMO92 Posted May 19, 2023 Posted May 19, 2023 4 hours ago, Wrecked said: I truly hate RCA. Goodbye Lullaby could have been a magnum opus if she was allowed to released it how she wanted to. Candy is definitely a better lead than WTH, I guess RCA only buy it when it’s from Max Martin.....
Wrecked Posted May 19, 2023 Posted May 19, 2023 38 minutes ago, KKKIMO92 said: Candy is definitely a better lead than WTH, I guess RCA only buy it when it’s from Max Martin..... Candy wasn’t supposed to be on the original track list either…
Ivan_brit Posted May 19, 2023 Posted May 19, 2023 Streaming Under My Skin on ha anniversary 8 minutes ago, misa amane said: OKAYYYY She keeps increasing 1
Vilko Posted May 19, 2023 Posted May 19, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Wrecked said: I truly hate RCA. Goodbye Lullaby could have been a magnum opus if she was allowed to released it how she wanted to. Oh I remember the GL era very well It's not even about the quality (because WYWH and I Love You are decent songs)... The issue was that the album was completed in 2009 and was on hold for almost 2 years. Her momentum completely faded - Avril's competition like Rihanna, Taylor Swift etc. kept releasing music, music trends shifted towards EDM (which meant GL was dated on arrival) etc. 4 years break was way too long and she couldn't afford that, her core fanbase was having meltdowns and many casual fans and GP ditched her. The album didn't even outdo Bionic's first week She went from 286K to 86K... And the RCA sabotage wasn't only BEFORE the era but during the era too.... - She dragged them on her website - They released WTH for free on Facebook - They released WTH on the worst day possible - January 1st when there was radio freeze and countdowns. The song FLOPPED on radio and never gained momentum there - They waited 2 weeks only just so they could collide the iTunes release with Britney's brand new comeback single (who was also with RCA ) WTH still outsold HIAM afterall but the damage was done... - They didn't let her release Push and forced her to release Smile - They dropped her / she left them MID era (to even worse label but that's a whole another story ) Also in every interview she had to explain that the album is unlike WTH... A marketing disaster tbh. Anyway to be completely objective, she was also at fault... Very stubborn and she left fans in dark most of the time and didn't really communicate what was happening with her music career in 2009 and 2010. Instead she was doing the stupid fragrances and ****. Edited May 19, 2023 by Vilko
KKCuteCat Posted May 20, 2023 Posted May 20, 2023 10 hours ago, Vilko said: Oh I remember the GL era very well It's not even about the quality (because WYWH and I Love You are decent songs)... The issue was that the album was completed in 2009 and was on hold for almost 2 years. Her momentum completely faded - Avril's competition like Rihanna, Taylor Swift etc. kept releasing music, music trends shifted towards EDM (which meant GL was dated on arrival) etc. 4 years break was way too long and she couldn't afford that, her core fanbase was having meltdowns and many casual fans and GP ditched her. The album didn't even outdo Bionic's first week She went from 286K to 86K... And the RCA sabotage wasn't only BEFORE the era but during the era too.... - She dragged them on her website - They released WTH for free on Facebook - They released WTH on the worst day possible - January 1st when there was radio freeze and countdowns. The song FLOPPED on radio and never gained momentum there - They waited 2 weeks only just so they could collide the iTunes release with Britney's brand new comeback single (who was also with RCA ) WTH still outsold HIAM afterall but the damage was done... - They didn't let her release Push and forced her to release Smile - They dropped her / she left them MID era (to even worse label but that's a whole another story ) Also in every interview she had to explain that the album is unlike WTH... A marketing disaster tbh. Anyway to be completely objective, she was also at fault... Very stubborn and she left fans in dark most of the time and didn't really communicate what was happening with her music career in 2009 and 2010. Instead she was doing the stupid fragrances and ****. It outsold Bionic WW by 2-3 times
Vilko Posted May 20, 2023 Posted May 20, 2023 1 hour ago, KKCuteCat said: It outsold Bionic WW by 2-3 times I meant first week in the USA
Wrecked Posted May 20, 2023 Posted May 20, 2023 14 hours ago, Vilko said: Oh I remember the GL era very well It's not even about the quality (because WYWH and I Love You are decent songs)... The issue was that the album was completed in 2009 and was on hold for almost 2 years. Her momentum completely faded - Avril's competition like Rihanna, Taylor Swift etc. kept releasing music, music trends shifted towards EDM (which meant GL was dated on arrival) etc. 4 years break was way too long and she couldn't afford that, her core fanbase was having meltdowns and many casual fans and GP ditched her. The album didn't even outdo Bionic's first week She went from 286K to 86K... And the RCA sabotage wasn't only BEFORE the era but during the era too.... - She dragged them on her website - They released WTH for free on Facebook - They released WTH on the worst day possible - January 1st when there was radio freeze and countdowns. The song FLOPPED on radio and never gained momentum there - They waited 2 weeks only just so they could collide the iTunes release with Britney's brand new comeback single (who was also with RCA ) WTH still outsold HIAM afterall but the damage was done... - They didn't let her release Push and forced her to release Smile - They dropped her / she left them MID era (to even worse label but that's a whole another story ) Also in every interview she had to explain that the album is unlike WTH... A marketing disaster tbh. Anyway to be completely objective, she was also at fault... Very stubborn and she left fans in dark most of the time and didn't really communicate what was happening with her music career in 2009 and 2010. Instead she was doing the stupid fragrances and ****. The main issue for me is that the label forced her to add songs that could be ‘hits’ which completely ruined the artistic vision she had for the album. I don’t think WTH, Smile, I Love You or WYWH are bad songs, in fact, I love them, but they do not belong on Goodbye Lullaby. Thematically WYWH and I Love You don’t sound out of place, but they do when it comes to the production. All of the songs have a more stripped back approach and use real instruments, whereas the songs that she was forced to add are so overly produced and use generic beats in place of real drums. I don’t really care about sales or albums ‘flopping’ as the quality of the music always comes first for me and the album probably would have sold worse if something like Push was the first single, but I’d rather that scenario over getting an album that doesn’t sound consistent.
Vilko Posted May 20, 2023 Posted May 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Wrecked said: The main issue for me is that the label forced her to add songs that could be ‘hits’ which completely ruined the artistic vision she had for the album. I don’t think WTH, Smile, I Love You or WYWH are bad songs, in fact, I love them, but they do not belong on Goodbye Lullaby. Thematically WYWH and I Love You don’t sound out of place, but they do when it comes to the production. All of the songs have a more stripped back approach and use real instruments, whereas the songs that she was forced to add are so overly produced and use generic beats in place of real drums. I don’t really care about sales or albums ‘flopping’ as the quality of the music always comes first for me and the album probably would have sold worse if something like Push was the first single, but I’d rather that scenario over getting an album that doesn’t sound consistent. IDK I feel like WYWH and ILY really add to Goodbye Lullaby. It's just WTH and Smile which are so ******* out of place. She definitely could record a solid radio friendly song (even uptempo) without it sounding so out of place if RCA insisted on it. Interesting thing is that out of all the Goodbye Lullaby songs, Avril chooses to perform the songs she fought against...WTH, Smile and WYWH... She chose to play WYWH over Nobody's Home on the majority of her last tour as well.... Does that even make sense? And by the way "I Love You" is the highest streaming non-single of the album...
Wrecked Posted May 20, 2023 Posted May 20, 2023 48 minutes ago, Vilko said: IDK I feel like WYWH and ILY really add to Goodbye Lullaby. It's just WTH and Smile which are so ******* out of place. She definitely could record a solid radio friendly song (even uptempo) without it sounding so out of place if RCA insisted on it. Interesting thing is that out of all the Goodbye Lullaby songs, Avril chooses to perform the songs she fought against...WTH, Smile and WYWH... She chose to play WYWH over Nobody's Home on the majority of her last tour as well.... Does that even make sense? And by the way "I Love You" is the highest streaming non-single of the album... See, I think all 4 songs are out of place because of the production. They’re too polished and sound nothing like the rest of the album. I Love You is great but still stands out like a sore thumb against songs like Push, 4 Real, Not Enough and Everybody Hurts. I wish we got the original version of the album with songs like Fine, Gone and Complete Me and then save the Max Martin songs for AL5. Goodbye Lullaby, Self-Titled and Head Above Water have all felt like messy albums. Love Sux is sonically her most cohesive since TBDT. It’s just a shame she hasn’t been given a lot of freedom like some other artists. This being scrapped for the Max Martin songs is so annoying. You can tell from the instrumental alone it had the potential to be one of her best songs. Goodbye Lullaby is overall a great album and her best since Under My Skin, but it just feels tainted to me.
Vilko Posted May 20, 2023 Posted May 20, 2023 10 minutes ago, Wrecked said: See, I think all 4 songs are out of place because of the production. They’re too polished and sound nothing like the rest of the album. I Love You is great but still stands out like a sore thumb against songs like Push, 4 Real, Not Enough and Everybody Hurts. I wish we got the original version of the album with songs like Fine, Gone and Complete Me and then save the Max Martin songs for AL5. Goodbye Lullaby, Self-Titled and Head Above Water have all felt like messy albums. Love Sux is sonically her most cohesive since TBDT. It’s just a shame she hasn’t been given a lot of freedom like some other artists. This being scrapped for the Max Martin songs is so annoying. You can tell from the instrumental alone it had the potential to be one of her best songs. Goodbye Lullaby is overall a great album and her best since Under My Skin, but it just feels tainted to me. Well to be correct we don't know a lot about "Fine". But yeah RCA forcing Gone and Complete Me out of the album was a travesty and the saddest thing is that we will most likely never hear the full versions. Instead we are getting leaks which she did not want to be released
MusicFan98 Posted May 20, 2023 Posted May 20, 2023 The goodbye lullaby discussion is tired guys, Honestly if it wansn't for WTH and Smile the album would have been a bigger bomb lol, WTH was a decent hit and sadly nothing else on that record could have done better, Push wansn't getting anywhere, Smile while a flop was the most safe choice along with WYWH. I love you and WYWH don't sound out of place lol, let them be, they are great. However if it was by me, the era could have gone like this: Lead: Remember When (with an improved bridge so it hits a little harder) 2nd single: I Love You Post album release 3rd single: Stop Standing There 4th single: Everybody Hurts
Wrecked Posted May 20, 2023 Posted May 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Vilko said: Well to be correct we don't know a lot about "Fine". But yeah RCA forcing Gone and Complete Me out of the album was a travesty and the saddest thing is that we will most likely never hear the full versions. Instead we are getting leaks which she did not want to be released We don’t know how it sounds, but it’s weird that she talked about it in an interview and Evan said that Gone is his favourite and both were left off the album. Surely she could have left off Black Star, Darlin’ and Alice for those songs.
KKKIMO92 Posted May 20, 2023 Posted May 20, 2023 10 hours ago, Wrecked said: See, I think all 4 songs are out of place because of the production. They’re too polished and sound nothing like the rest of the album. I Love You is great but still stands out like a sore thumb against songs like Push, 4 Real, Not Enough and Everybody Hurts. I wish we got the original version of the album with songs like Fine, Gone and Complete Me and then save the Max Martin songs for AL5. Goodbye Lullaby, Self-Titled and Head Above Water have all felt like messy albums. Love Sux is sonically her most cohesive since TBDT. It’s just a shame she hasn’t been given a lot of freedom like some other artists. This being scrapped for the Max Martin songs is so annoying. You can tell from the instrumental alone it had the potential to be one of her best songs. Goodbye Lullaby is overall a great album and her best since Under My Skin, but it just feels tainted to me. Retrospectively speaking, she could pull off something like Kelly did with My December and All I ever wanted. Agree on producing a commercial album for RCA on the condition that she will first release her demo album. GL in mid-2009 with a theatre tour to support the album, and then summer 2010 release WTH or Candy as the first singles for her commercial comeback. She will fare much better this way and that 2009 GL release will actually help her to build an artistic image while having some commercial success with AL5. I blame Avril’s stubborn ass, she does belong to a major label, she is more like an indie artist.....
Vilko Posted May 21, 2023 Posted May 21, 2023 If they were going for Max Martin tracks, WYWH should've definitely been the second single instead of Smile, if not the lead single. And I won't comment on her creative decisions and Epic Records decisions for her self-titled. The fact she couldn't even find a title for the album And it still was postponed as **** The fact she hasn't performed on relevant or at least semi relevant awards show like AMAs, Grammys, BRIT, VMAs, Billboard etc. literally never, meanwhile all of her competition did. She was done so dirty...
misa amane Posted May 21, 2023 Posted May 21, 2023 phew! innocence is really one of the best songs ever made
KKCuteCat Posted May 21, 2023 Posted May 21, 2023 16 hours ago, KKKIMO92 said: Retrospectively speaking, she could pull off something like Kelly did with My December and All I ever wanted. Agree on producing a commercial album for RCA on the condition that she will first release her demo album. GL in mid-2009 with a theatre tour to support the album, and then summer 2010 release WTH or Candy as the first singles for her commercial comeback. She will fare much better this way and that 2009 GL release will actually help her to build an artistic image while having some commercial success with AL5. I blame Avril’s stubborn ass, she does belong to a major label, she is more like an indie artist..... My December really killed Kelly's career tho. She's never fully recovered after that even tho she can scored a few hits later but she's never as huge as she once was.
KKKIMO92 Posted May 22, 2023 Posted May 22, 2023 On 5/21/2023 at 5:09 PM, KKCuteCat said: My December really killed Kelly's career tho. She's never fully recovered after that even tho she can scored a few hits later but she's never as huge as she once was. That’s why they need to be smart about. Strictly announcing GL is a one year effort and personal album with a commercial album coming just one year after. Coldplay did it smartly with Ghost Stories and A head full of Dreams.and it didn’t kill their career
Prince George Posted May 23, 2023 Posted May 23, 2023 Everything Back But You + I Don’t Have to Try >>> Contagious
KKCuteCat Posted May 23, 2023 Posted May 23, 2023 6 hours ago, KKKIMO92 said: That’s why they need to be smart about. Strictly announcing GL is a one year effort and personal album with a commercial album coming just one year after. Coldplay did it smartly with Ghost Stories and A head full of Dreams.and it didn’t kill their career AVril was really huge in 00s. Back to 2009, she was still much bigger than someone like Katy Perry. Alice flopped pretty badly and it killed her momentumn. Just one flop single can pretty much damage her at the time. CAn't imagine if she had released GL without a moderate hit like WTF . Anyway, she doesn't have to release songs like WTH and Smile but i agree with RCA that she nees to balance between her artistic and commercial success if she had given damn about her career as a mainstream artist. Songs like Just give me a reason might work better for GL era.
poki Posted May 23, 2023 Posted May 23, 2023 At least she is still the most famous Canadian woman as of 2023
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