charts discussion HDD: 30 increases to 205k

[georgechxng]

Just now, Steve Johnson said:

I think that user was talking about USA only but that is impossible too with 1989 tv coming. 

Oh yeah, it's never happening. It's kinda sad that Taylor's most successful album is surpassed by two Adele's albums 

[GreatestLoveofAll]

Just now, simmnfierzig said:

The special treatment of "oooooooh no its super unfair to compare Taylor's totals to Adele's totals" when they are 32 and 33 years old and started their careers at the end of 2006 and the beginning of 2008

we can compare their CAREERS for sure as both are on the same level of success (huge sales, many Grammy wins etc) but there is is still technicalities. You cant compare a 4 album discography no matter how long it spans to a 9-album one. Thats not special treatment- thats common sense.

 

The reason some stans are making claims is that despite the utter difference in their scheduling, Adele is just as successful as she was before despite a market collapse and despite a whole new generation of younger pop stars arriving in her absence. The fact that Adele's releases can stand toe to toe with recent Taylor ones overall in the US is their point from what Im seeing. It would be a bit embarrassing for Adele to outsell Taylor in her own home country with half the releases (but she hasnt because taylor is a huge artist in her own right ofc), but the fact is that she can do just as well and this era proves it once again. 

 

Maybe you are being bombarded by people who see the facts differently but what im saying is that taylor is yes the biggest female artist in America rn- this century at least- but the numbers also show that Adele's appeal and success her is not diminished below hers just because she technically doesnt have as many albums. 

[supertiffany]

Just now, georgechxng said:

Oh yeah, it's never happening. It's kinda sad that Taylor's most successful album is surpassed by two Adele's albums 

Taylor’s best is no match to Adele’s weak era lol. 

[KillingYourCareer]

3 minutes ago, Steve Johnson said:

But don't give credits to chartnasters. They are incredibly fake which never count Asian countries properly. 

That's because most of those countries don't even have a national recorded music industry association so they basically have to make numbers up

[Steve Johnson]

Just now, georgechxng said:

Oh yeah, it's never happening. It's kinda sad that Taylor's most successful album is surpassed by two Adele's albums 

Nothing to be sad out. 1989 is the most awarded pop album in hostory. It has everything - huge album sales, huge streaming numbers, huge singles success, huge tour, AOTY. 1989 is totally complete in it's own way. 

[KillingYourCareer]

3 minutes ago, GreatestLoveofAll said:

we can compare their CAREERS for sure as both are on the same level of success (huge sales, many Grammy wins etc) but there is is still technicalities. You cant compare a 4 album discography no matter how long it spans to a 9-album one. Thats not special treatment- thats common sense.

 

The reason some stans are making claims is that despite the utter difference in their scheduling, Adele is just as successful as she was before despite a market collapse and despite a whole new generation of younger pop stars arriving in her absence. The fact that Adele's releases can stand toe to toe with recent Taylor ones overall in the US is their point from what Im seeing. It would be a bit embarrassing for Adele to outsell Taylor in her own home country with half the releases (but she hasnt because taylor is a huge artist in her own right ofc), but the fact is that she can do just as well and this era proves it once again. 

 

Maybe you are being bombarded by people who see the facts differently but what im saying is that taylor is yes the biggest female artist in America rn- this century at least- but the numbers also show that Adele's appeal and success her is not diminished below hers just because she technically doesnt have as many albums. 

Exactly. We're comparing a 318-song discography (that a year from now will have grown to 360+) to a 47-song one. Nearly 7 times bigger. It surely has to be taken into account.

Edited December 26, 2021 by KillingYourCareer

[Steve Johnson]

2 minutes ago, KillingYourCareer said:

That's because most of those countries don't even have a national recorded music industry association so they basically have to make numbers up

Yes, because many asian countries are poor and their economic conditions are not good here. So album sales are valued different. Every country has different music platforms. But this is a huge disadvantage who are titans here like Taylor and Jb. Their global sales are not counted properly. 

[Steve Johnson]

4 minutes ago, KillingYourCareer said:

Exactly. We're comparing a 318-song discography (that a year from now will have grown to 360+) to a 47-song one. Nearly 7 times bigger. It surely has to be taken into account.

TS10 and TS11 coming next year ? 

Because re-recording have same songs as OG with only vault songs are new. 

[PopFan1996]

2 minutes ago, Steve Johnson said:

Yes, because many asian countries are poor and their economic conditions are not good here. So album sales are valued different. Every country has different music platforms. But this is a huge disadvantage who are titans here like Taylor and Jb. Their global sales are not counted properly. 

Adele is a titan in asian countries too tho. Adele's numbers in Indonesia, China, Malaysia and Japan are insane

[KillingYourCareer]

Just now, Steve Johnson said:

Yes, because many asian countries are poor and their economic conditions are not good here. So album sales are valued different. Every country has different music platforms. But this is a huge disadvantage who are titans here like Taylor and Jb. Their global sales are not counted properly. 

I wouldn't talk about "sales" considering in places like Indonesia and the Philippines (two of the largest Asian countries) Platinum was 10k and 15k copies respectively in the physical era... I don't know what streaming services are used there (I know of Joox in Thailand and KKBox in the Chinese-speaking world?) but if they don't reveal any numbers, then Chartmasters - who are just enthusiasts with no access to real industry numbers - can't do much about it. I agree that they shouldn't be used as a reliable source, especially considering not one single country's music industry uses their conversion method anyway.

[georgechxng]

6 minutes ago, Steve Johnson said:

Yes, because many asian countries are poor and their economic conditions are not good here. So album sales are valued different. Every country has different music platforms. But this is a huge disadvantage who are titans here like Taylor and Jb. Their global sales are not counted properly. 

They are. Justin's numbers always get boosted up on IFPI because of his asian sales (which mainly come from China) LOL same with Taylor. 

 

And even chartmasters count them (they just adjust them to a fair formula to weight down them according to the circunstances the albums are being sold). With the governement of China applying rules to stop mass-buying from happening on the Chinese digital/streaming plataforms, most albums from Western acts will now struggle to even clear 400k over there so things should be more clear from now on.

Edited December 26, 2021 by georgechxng

[Steve Johnson]

1 minute ago, KillingYourCareer said:

I wouldn't talk about "sales" considering in places like Indonesia and the Philippines (two of the largest Asian countries) Platinum was 10k and 15k copies respectively in the physical era... I don't know what streaming services are used there (I know of Joox in Thailand and KKBox in the Chinese-speaking world?) but if they don't reveal any numbers, then Chartmasters - who are just enthusiasts with no access to real industry numbers - can't do much about it. I agree that they shouldn't be used as a reliable source, especially considering not one single country's music industry uses their conversion method anyway.

That's why I only believe IFPI. Their global artist lists is most reliable and truly tells who was the consumed artists globally that year. Can't wait for March list. 

[simmnfierzig]

11 minutes ago, KillingYourCareer said:

Exactly. We're comparing a 318-song discography (that a year from now will have grown to 360+) to a 47-song one. Nearly 7 times bigger. It surely has to be taken into account.

Taylor still doesnt have 318 songs 

I would really like to know what chartmasters includes in there

 

Its ~220 if you count really everything and double count Fearless and Red. And the 47 doesnt even include Skyfall if I looked correctly

 

 

You can take it into account, yeah. But saying Adele is bigger in the US (some are even saying much bigger), based on potential, when its 35M vs 60M album units in reality, is just weird too me

Edited December 26, 2021 by simmnfierzig

[georgechxng]

2 minutes ago, Steve Johnson said:

That's why I only believe IFPI. Their global artist lists is most reliable and truly tells who was the consumed artists globally that year. Can't wait for March list. 

I agree. IFPI snapped proving how swifties inflated folklore's 2020 numbers with its fraudulent china data  the album finishing as only the #9 best seller from 2020 with even changes charting above it was a MOMENT.

Edited December 26, 2021 by georgechxng

[Steve Johnson]

Just now, georgechxng said:

They are. Justin's numbers always get boosted up on IFPI because of his asian sales LOL same with Taylor. 

 

And even chartmasters count them (they just adjust them to a fair formula to weight down them according to the circunstances the albums are being sold). With the governement of China applying rules to stop mass-buying from happening on the Chinese digital/streaming plataforms, most albums from Western acts will now struggle to even clear 400k over there so things should be more clear from now on.

And mass buying is still present in many countries which is unfair. And hoe can a poor economy country people buy a 50$  vinyl or 20$ cds. Chartmasters are totally wrong. IFPI is most reliable and we can't wait for next global artist list. 

 

[simmnfierzig]

There are no good WW numbers and this discussion was always about US only

[KillingYourCareer]

2 minutes ago, simmnfierzig said:

Taylor still doesnt have 318 songs 

I would really like to know what chartmasters includes in there

 

Its ~220 if you count really everything and double count Fearless and Red. And the 47 doesnt even include Skyfall if I looked correctly

 

 

You can take it into account, yeah. But saying Adele is bigger in the US (some are even saying much bigger), based on potential, when its 35M vs 60M album units in reality, is just weird too me

12 + 11 + 1 + 11 + 12 = 47. Number is up to 58 if we also count remixes and other versions, which I think is what adds up to 318 for Taylor!

[storminthedark]

17 pages…for this? 

[Steve Johnson]

1 minute ago, georgechxng said:

I agree. IFPI snapped proving how swifties inflated folklore's 2020 numbers  the album finishing as only the #9 best seller from 2020 with even changes charting above it was a MOMENT.

That was a surprise but it is what it is. 

For the next release, I am really not expecting Taylor on any list other than artist list. She should be in top 5. 

[Steve Johnson]

2 minutes ago, simmnfierzig said:

There are no good WW numbers and this discussion was always about US only

Yes. How can you count local streaming services numbers. Is there any methods. Only Label knows and if they report it, then only we can believe. 

IFPI is most reliable but it depends on music services that if they want to give numbers or not to them. 

Edited December 26, 2021 by Steve Johnson

[simmnfierzig]

1 minute ago, KillingYourCareer said:

12 + 11 + 1 + 11 + 12 = 47. Number is up to 58 if we also count remixes and other versions, which I think is what adds up to 318 for Taylor!

Oh so I Found A Boy isnt counted. Okay

 

 

Taylor doesnt have 100 remixes 

 

Its probably counting Speak Now world Tour live and the Folklore Long Pond sessions and maybe even some unreleased stuff from YouTube. Saw like 20 of them on 1 chartmaster list

 

[georgechxng]

19 minutes ago, KillingYourCareer said:

Exactly. We're comparing a 318-song discography (that a year from now will have grown to 360+) to a 47-song one. Nearly 7 times bigger. It surely has to be taken into account.

It's funny how they tried to prove they were on a similar level using the numbers from Taylor's first 3 albums but then backtracked and started using her whole discography numbers once they realized they couldn't surpass Adele's without it. Stick to an argument 

Edited December 26, 2021 by georgechxng

[PopFan1996]

2 minutes ago, simmnfierzig said:

There are no good WW numbers

Because Adele is obviously bigger than Taylor WW? The discussion was about the US yes but it took a turn to WW because of some swifties mentioning the WW sales of Sour. Your bias is crazy , try to make it less obvious next time

[georgechxng]

Just now, PopFan1996 said:

Because Adele is obviously bigger than Taylor WW? The discussion was about the US yes but it took a turn to WW because of some swifties mentioning the WW sales of Sour. Your bias is crazy , try to make it less obvious next time

[CaptainMusic]

16 minutes ago, Steve Johnson said:

Nothing to be sad out. 1989 is the most awarded pop album in hostory.

It’s not, Thriller is.