discussion Worse nation in 2025: USA vs. China

[BionicWooHoo]

Religious freedom this religious freedom that

 

Some religions need to be repressed I.e. the brand of Christianity in the US responsible for the right wing white supremacist nationalism that has taken over 

[Cain]

21 minutes ago, Communion said:

This movement never took off outside of NGO's and "China Watcher" thinktanks because roughly 95% of the same people and movement figures argued that restrictions on religious liberties (applied to all Chinese citizens) or things like the de-Arabization of things like mosque architecture could be considered "literal genocide" but a mass ethnic cleansing and carpet bombing by Israel on Palestine mysteriously was not. 

 

I say this not to suggest China is somehow above criticism. Of course I don't agree with the idea that a government can limit how many children someone can have. Or the tactics China had copied from France to discern what were signs of """potential religious extremism""". There's easily an ethical ground to criticize China's national security state and its bountiful mistakes and problems. 

 

But that's why Palestine is and will always be the litmus test. Because one can't argue that literally slaughtering hundreds of thousands is not an issue but then argue civil or religious repression at what is objectively a lesser, incomparable scale is somehow actually the urgent issue of the times. I'm sure there's people who genuinely care about both issues. The elephant in the room they should understand though is that religious repression in China never became nor will become a national talking point because the CIA-adjacent agencies who were working to make something like the repression of Uyghurs a national issue largely have all lost credibility for their support of Israel in-line with official US foreign policy. 

 

I'm all for recognizing forced or heavy-handed integration campaigns are not inherently benevolent and often pose unique harms of their own (what has been argued as cultural genocide), but then we're acknowledging these issues are quantifiable. And we have to acknowledge it's obscene to make an argument that is effectively "China pressuring 18-year-old Uyghurs in Xinjiang to move to a big city in the east and get a college degree as a cultural assimilation policy is actually WORSE than the Israeli state-sanctioned policy of mass-rape and slaughter of 15-year-old Palestinian boys". A movement having essentially tried to argue such is why there's been little mass organization around this as a cause. 

I'm not sure if this post was specifically aimed at me, thank you for your explanation though

 

I am well aware of the genocide going on in Gaza and the West (including my country's) horrible denial of it, which will be seen as one of the if not the most inhumane atrocity of our time, and I will forever hate US and EU for it. And I get how the West's hypocrisy can deter other causes from being taken seriously 

 

Again, that doesn't explain to me why there must be China fanboys who would rather scream "but the US!!" than truthfully reflect on Islamophobia in China and elsewhere in Asia, as it can be as bad as it is in the EU in some places. That is weird to me, especially coming from the usual "you can care about multiple things ate once" crowd

 

I get that there is an inherent West vs East dichotomy mindset we've been brought up in, and I'm all here for criticizing/despising the West, but that again doesn't explain to me why other regimes shouldn't be criticized 

[uusagii]

We will be China's slaves I fear 

[byzantium]

Neither are saints, but the U.S. responsibility for Palestine far outweighs anything China is doing.  

[Phaunzie]

2 hours ago, Cain said:

The Uyghurs would love a word with you 

There is a difference between reeducation (i.e vocational training) and ethnic cleansing programs. What China is doing is bad (forced imprisonments, reeducation camp) but, compared to the U.S, it could be a lot worse. 

 

On a global scale, China is far, far benevolent than the U.S. Literally, China is one of the main countries who give lenient and non-restrictive debt swaps for developing nations. China has been at the forefront of renewable tech, and implementation of it in third world countries. Like, tell me a country that the U.S hasn't crippled by their association. The UK's economy is in the dumps, European allies are stuck paying high prices products, Canada has never been worse and Japan is handicapped.

Edited Thursday at 04:14 PM by Phaunzie

[byzantium]

23 minutes ago, Phaunzie said:

Like, tell me a country that the U.S hasn't crippled by their association. The UK's economy is in the dumps, European allies are stuck paying high prices products, Canada has never been worse and Japan is handicapped.

So I agree with you, but you can't pretend that all these countries specifically have not benefited massively from the global system spearheaded by the U.S. after WWII.  
 

I think you would be better off listing countries like: Cuba, Palestine, Chile, El Salvador, Iraq, Vietnam, the Philippines, Mexico, or Laos.  

[Taylena]

If China is evil, then the US is the entire blazing hell. 

[UnusualBoy]

It's like trying to pick the lesser of two evils but USA is working overtime to be worse.

[DAP]

Probably the one providing material support for genocides in Africa and West Asia and crushing any dissent of them.