LCTV Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 Idk how Talking Body & Worth It weren't Top 10 they were everywhere
Mariano Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 26 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said: Million Reasons and Chained To The Rhythm weren't all that strong, and weren't really all that deserving of a top three placement based on their overall weak performances. what even ? My point is that the lead that MR had over the number 2 digital song would've been enough 5 years ago, to make it debut in top 3. Has nothing to do with what you're saying. Kesha's We are who we are (for example) wouldn't debut at number 1 if it was released today and had the same lead in digital sales.
One Nation Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Mariano said: what even ? My point is that the lead that MR had over the number 2 digital song would've been enough 5 years ago, to make it debut in top 3. Has nothing to do with what you're saying. Kesha's We are who we are (for example) wouldn't debut at number 1 if it was released today and had the same lead in digital sales. Well obviously not since streaming is included. What he's saying (I think) is that the spike you're referring to here was a direct result of being discounted and having the SB in the same week. The fact that the song spent only one week within the Top 10 shows how weak it was in comparison to even Wild Thoughts at this point. CTTR did fare better, but not by much. I don't expect to see either song near the top half of the year end charts. CTTR has a small chance since it did decently on streaming. Edited June 27, 2017 by One Nation
Mariano Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 5 minutes ago, One Nation said: Well obviously not since streaming is included. What he's saying (I think) is that the spike you're referring to here was a direct result of being discounted and having the SB in the same week. The fact that the song spent only one week within the Top 10 shows how weak it was in comparison to even Wild Thoughts at this point. CTTR did fare better, but not by much. I don't expect to see either song near the top half of the year end charts. CTTR has a small chance since it did decently on streaming. I'm gonna be nice and just say that you and the other guy need to stop for a second, not everything is about stan wars and comparisons and so on. What you and him are talking about had nothing to do with my post, which was simply a comment on how it's harder to debut in the top 3 nowadays (even with the way WT is smashing) and how times have changed and how there were several songs debuting/peaking at number 4 in recent times. I never said or indicated that WT is doing similarly to CTTR/MR. Nothing more or less
ClashAndBurn Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 "Wild Thoughts" could have debuted top 3, but the fact is that the current top 3 is just abnormally strong. I don't think it would have debuted top 2 when CTTR was released, though, because it would have had to compete with "Shape Of You" and "Bad and Boujee." "Million Reasons" had the sales edge,yes, but it was largely due to its discount + Super Bowl exposure. Radio support was unfortunately lackluster. Probably would have been better if "Perfect Illusion" had just... never happened, but c'est la vie... CTTR didn't even have that strong of a debut, so it was sorta lucky that it came out when it did.
Sinister Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 10 hours ago, RihsusChrist(ATG) said: I really wanted "Lights" by Ellie Goulding to go #1...it had such a slow climb up the charts, but got blocked @ #2 by damn Flo-rida Kinda the same thing with "Radioactive" by Imagine Dragons...it deserved to go #1 as well after clawing its way up the Hot 100 even though it peaked @ #3. Not to mention the #1's that got away by Rihanna had she or her collaborator promoted, or discounted their sh*t! Stay, 45S, TIWYCF, LOTB being examples... @umich wasn't Flo but...
Mariano Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said: "Wild Thoughts" could have debuted top 3, but the fact is that the current top 3 is just abnormally strong. I don't think it would have debuted top 2 when CTTR was released, though, because it would have had to compete with "Shape Of You" and "Bad and Boujee." "Million Reasons" had the sales edge,yes, but it was largely due to its discount + Super Bowl exposure. Radio support was unfortunately lackluster. Probably would have been better if "Perfect Illusion" had just... never happened, but c'est la vie... CTTR didn't even have that strong of a debut, so it was sorta lucky that it came out when it did. but what does any of this have to do with anything ? Especially the fact that MR had a discount, superbowl etc. ? What does it have to do with anything Literally off topic as hell. The fact that competition is different at different times and that peaks don't mean as much, cuz some song could've peaked at number 2 and be bigger than other number 2 peaking songs etc. is a known fact. My post simply mentioned that recently big debuts tend to result in a number 4 position, Harry Styles too etc. and those big debuts would've resulted in a higher position back in the day. (2011 for example).
Roberto Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 1 hour ago, QueenBLadyG said: Some of these songs really deserved better! Catch My Breath!!!! Yes, Catch My Breath totally deserved the Top 10. That song is pop perfection.
Starkboy Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 15 minutes ago, Mariano said: but what does any of this have to do with anything ? Especially the fact that MR had a discount, superbowl etc. ? What does it have to do with anything Literally off topic as hell. The fact that competition is different at different times and that peaks don't mean as much, cuz some song could've peaked at number 2 and be bigger than other number 2 peaking songs etc. is a known fact. My post simply mentioned that recently big debuts tend to result in a number 4 position, Harry Styles too etc. and those big debuts would've resulted in a higher position back in the day. (2011 for example). This makes no sense tbh. Cause MR and CTTR hadnt strong debuts at all. And they wouldnt have debuted higher in the past. I see its still hard to accept that itunes doesnt play a big part anymore. Big streaming makes a song have a big debut. Katy and Gaga both lacked it.
Remixed Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) MR passed 1 million sales? Now that is impressive definitely deserves its top 5 peak Edited June 27, 2017 by Remixed
Riha'love Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 Talking about MR and CTTR in the first place was useless since Wild Thoughts will outperform both.
Witnessed ET Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 8 hours ago, SweetTalker said: Mess it'll be 2013 all over again Radioactive/Believer slaying during the summer, and then Demons/Thunder smashing months later after their initial push Yeah but Demons was actually good though...I just cant get into that Thunder song and its just so monotonous with no substance.
Mariano Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 21 minutes ago, Starkboy said: This makes no sense tbh. Cause MR and CTTR hadnt strong debuts at all. And they wouldnt have debuted higher in the past. I see its still hard to accept that itunes doesnt play a big part anymore. Big streaming makes a song have a big debut. Katy and Gaga both lacked it. again it's not about CTTR and MR. Maybe these 2 songs were lucky that the competition was weak etc. My point was that WT for example is smashing radio and streaming and the sales are good too. Definitely would've normally debuted in the top 3. And for example I don't understand how Bruno is still top 3 really ...
Mariano Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 20 minutes ago, Riha'love said: Talking about MR and CTTR in the first place was useless since Wild Thoughts will outperform both. but I never said that it won't or talked about their success or anything. I just said that we used to have number 1 number 2 debuts before and now the strong debuts result in number 3 or number 4 which is a result of the current formula of the hot 100 which allows songs to have too much points (especially the big ones) and blocking bigger debuts. I don't believe that WT was less popular last week than Bruno's That's what I like.
Klein Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, Mariano said: but I never said that it won't or talked about their success or anything. I just said that we used to have number 1 number 2 debuts before and now the strong debuts result in number 3 or number 4 which is a result of the current formula of the hot 100 which allows songs to have too much points (especially the big ones) and blocking bigger debuts. I completely get what you're saying, and you're right. But I think that debuts are not as high as they were before thanks to a better calculation of the popularity of the songs. I mean, back in early 2010s, a huge fanbase was enough to send a song straight to number 1, even if the song clearly did not clicked with the GP (see Hold It Against Me). Now, with streaming, I think that we have a better measure of the real popularity of a song. And as a result, songs rarely debut at the top of the charts because they are NOT the most popular of the week. The majority of the GP won't know a song the first week of its release if they are not music fans like us or if they don't turn on the radio for the whole week.
One Nation Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 18 minutes ago, Klein said: I completely get what you're saying, and you're right. But I think that debuts are not as high as they were before thanks to a better calculation of the popularity of the songs. I mean, back in early 2010s, a huge fanbase was enough to send a song straight to number 1, even if the song clearly did not clicked with the GP (see Hold It Against Me). Now, with streaming, I think that we have a better measure of the real popularity of a song. And as a result, songs rarely debut at the top of the charts because they are NOT the most popular of the week. The majority of the GP won't know a song the first week of its release if they are not music fans like us or if they don't turn on the radio for the whole week. !!!!
Starkboy Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 30 minutes ago, Mariano said: but I never said that it won't or talked about their success or anything. I just said that we used to have number 1 number 2 debuts before and now the strong debuts result in number 3 or number 4 which is a result of the current formula of the hot 100 which allows songs to have too much points (especially the big ones) and blocking bigger debuts. I don't believe that WT was less popular last week than Bruno's That's what I like. As we needed strong sales to debut #1 in, let's say, 2011, we need strong streaming to debut #1 nowadays. SOY and I'm the One debuted #1 this year. CSTF! and Pillowtalk last year. #1 debuts each year: 2009 : one 2010 : two 2011 : two 2012 : one 2013 : one 2014 : one 2015 : two 2016 : two 2017 : two seems fair to me 32 minutes ago, Mariano said: again it's not about CTTR and MR. Maybe these 2 songs were lucky that the competition was weak etc. My point was that WT for example is smashing radio and streaming and the sales are good too. Definitely would've normally debuted in the top 3. And for example I don't understand how Bruno is still top 3 really ... The truth is that the current top3 (top4) is very strong right now. It happens. Sometimes there's weak competition, something a strong one. As for Bruno, radio has been a hot100 component for a while. It's still very big there (currently #1) plus it's showing great longevity in the other components (#2 on Youtube for example). it's still very popular as we speak.
simmnfierzig Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 39 minutes ago, Klein said: I completely get what you're saying, and you're right. But I think that debuts are not as high as they were before thanks to a better calculation of the popularity of the songs. I mean, back in early 2010s, a huge fanbase was enough to send a song straight to number 1, even if the song clearly did not clicked with the GP (see Hold It Against Me). Now, with streaming, I think that we have a better measure of the real popularity of a song. And as a result, songs rarely debut at the top of the charts because they are NOT the most popular of the week. The majority of the GP won't know a song the first week of its release if they are not music fans like us or if they don't turn on the radio for the whole week. Exactly
Mariano Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 53 minutes ago, Klein said: I completely get what you're saying, and you're right. But I think that debuts are not as high as they were before thanks to a better calculation of the popularity of the songs. I mean, back in early 2010s, a huge fanbase was enough to send a song straight to number 1, even if the song clearly did not clicked with the GP (see Hold It Against Me). Now, with streaming, I think that we have a better measure of the real popularity of a song. And as a result, songs rarely debut at the top of the charts because they are NOT the most popular of the week. The majority of the GP won't know a song the first week of its release if they are not music fans like us or if they don't turn on the radio for the whole week. yeah you have a point indeed. But then again I believe WT was more popular last week than "That's what I like"
simmnfierzig Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 Early predictions 1 Despacito 736 (=) 2 I'm The One 408 (=) 3 That's What I Like 388 (=) 4 Wild Thoughts 378 (=) 5 Shape Of You 310 (=) 6 Believer 305 (+5) 7 Humble 284 (-1) 8 Congratulations 252 (=) 9 Stay 239 (+1) 10 Something Just Like This 239 (-1) 11 Body Like A Back Road 239 (+2) 12 Mask Off 227 (-5) 13 Redbone 225 (+1) 14 Unforgettable 224 (+2) 15 XO Tour Lif3 212 (-3) 16 Issues 201 (-1) 17 There's Nothing Holdin Me Back 192 (+2) 18 Now Or Never 186 (+3) 19 Say You Won't Let Go 186 (-2) 20 It Ain't Me 181 (-2) 21 Bad Liar 160 (-1) 22 Slow Hands 156 (+2) 23 Malibu 154 (-1) 40 Signs 104 (debut)
Mariano Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 45 minutes ago, Starkboy said: As we needed strong sales to debut #1 in, let's say, 2011, we need strong streaming to debut #1 nowadays. SOY and I'm the One debuted #1 this year. CSTF! and Pillowtalk last year. #1 debuts each year: 2009 : one 2010 : two 2011 : two 2012 : one 2013 : one 2014 : one 2015 : two 2016 : two 2017 : two seems fair to me The truth is that the current top3 (top4) is very strong right now. It happens. Sometimes there's weak competition, something a strong one. As for Bruno, radio has been a hot100 component for a while. It's still very big there (currently #1) plus it's showing great longevity in the other components (#2 on Youtube for example). it's still very popular as we speak. yeah you are right. But maybe they should tone down Radio a bit too then.
Starkboy Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 10 minutes ago, simmnfierzig said: Early predictions 1 Despacito 736 (=) 2 I'm The One 408 (=) 3 That's What I Like 388 (=) 4 Wild Thoughts 378 (=) 5 Shape Of You 310 (=) 6 Believer 305 (+5) 7 Humble 284 (-1) 8 Congratulations 252 (=) 9 Stay 239 (+1) 10 Something Just Like This 239 (-1) 11 Body Like A Back Road 239 (+2) 12 Mask Off 227 (-5) 13 Redbone 225 (+1) 14 Unforgettable 224 (+2) 15 XO Tour Lif3 212 (-3) 16 Issues 201 (-1) 17 There's Nothing Holdin Me Back 192 (+2) 18 Now Or Never 186 (+3) 19 Say You Won't Let Go 186 (-2) 20 It Ain't Me 181 (-2) 21 Bad Liar 160 (-1) 22 Slow Hands 156 (+2) 23 Malibu 154 (-1) 40 Signs 104 (debut) Believer being the only relevant change. I'd not mind Bruno staying another week at #3 WT can jump #2 in two weeks anyway
Klein Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Mariano said: yeah you have a point indeed. But then again I believe WT was more popular last week than "That's what I like" Radio: BRUNO MARS - That's What I Like: 191.700 (numbers from today but I don't know if it was that much different 2 days ago) DJ KHALED F/RIHANNA/B.TILLER - Wild Thoughts: 49.841 Spotify: Wild Thoughts: 8,281,574 That's What I Like: 4,911,910 (Those numbers are from the last kworb update, so the gap was probably smaller during the first week of WT) So basically: - WT had less than twice the amount of streams than TWIL - TWIL had almost 4 times the amount of AI WT may have done better on iTunes, but pure sales are low so there isn't much difference between the two songs. Edited June 27, 2017 by Klein
simmnfierzig Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, Klein said: Radio: BRUNO MARS - That's What I Like: 191.700 (numbers from today but I don't know if it was that much different 2 days ago) DJ KHALED F/RIHANNA/B.TILLER - Wild Thoughts: 49.841 Spotify: Wild Thoughts: 8,281,574 That's What I Like: 4,911,910 (Those numbers are from the last kworb update, so the gap was probably smaller during the first week of WT) So basically: - WT had less than twice the amount of streams than TWIL - TWIL had almost 4 times the amount of AI WT may have done better on iTunes, but pure sales are low so there isn't much difference between the two songs. Streaming for the week Wild Thoughts 36.3M and TWIL around 30M (have it at 30.7M) Wild Thoughts 89k sales and TWIL ~30k is a huge difference
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