discussion Can we agree that Prue death in Charmed was the worst and saddest thing ever ?

[superben]

7 hours ago, Migs said:

Couldn't agree more. I've always wondered how the show would've turned out if she hadn't died. It was never the same after Shannen left.

Yup, the show was definitely much worse after this episode, but the plot is to blame. Horrid. I enjoyed the first 3 seasons a whole lot, but I struggled after that, and by season 5, I couldn't watch it anymore.

[Rainy Devil]

I think is a shame we never got all 4 sisters together because I did like the seasons we got with Paige.

Season 3 and Season 4 are my fav seasons of the series.

Edited January 16 by Rainy Devil

[Garbo89]

Found this on https://thecharmedcafe.proboards.com/ .... 

 

 

What I was wondering, was what happened in the summer months in between? When exactly did we find out that Shannen was not returning for season 4? Was it during season 3, or sometime after?

There were a lot of articles about Shannen Doherty's departure and replacement rumors during the summer of 2001. Doherty's departure created a lot of press for Charmed, and some articles deemed Doherty's departure was good buzz for an "aging" show. There's a lot of the articles from May 2001 - October 2001 (the time period between AHBL and CA 1&2 original airings) archived on different Charmed fan sites.

Timeline of events and related articles.
These are only some of the articles published during this time period, there were a lot more, but I eliminated some to avoid having too many articles with repeated information posted here.

May 12, 2001 - We learn Doherty is leaving Charmed

Charmed is coming back for another season on The WB but don't expect Shannen Doherty to be be there as, according to The Hollywood Reporter, the actress has left the series.

Production company Spelling TV confirmed her departure on Friday, but no reason was given ("We have nothing we can tell you right now," is the apparent quote, prompting rumours that the actress was fired).

Relationships between Doherty and Alyssa Milano are reported to be frosty at best but, ironically, according to a recent UK webchat, Shannen hinted that Alyssa wanted off the show for next season.

This leaves Charmed without one of its central characters and could lead to another casting change - originally Lori Rom was cast as Phoebe in the series' pilot but Milano was brought in when the series went to production.

Doherty was known for her attitude and temper on her previoous series, Beverly Hills, 90210 and was fired after four seasons. The character of Hunter Fallow in the The WB's Grosse Pointe was loosely based on Doherty, who had a recent run-in with the law when she was arrested for drunk driving last year. She pleaded no contest to the charges earlier this month (see previous story).

 

May 15, 2001 - All Hell Breaks Loose (3x22) airs

May 17, 2001 - The WB options Charmed for three more seasons/looks for Doherty replacement

Despite Shannen's departure, The WB looks set to renew Charmed for another three seasons.

Variety reports that the WB has sealed multiple-year deals with four of its top-rated shows in an attempt to avoid losing another series in the wake of Buffy's move to UPN.

The trade reports that the network is close to agreeing with Spelling TV to retain Charmed through to 2003-04 season.

"We're picking up our three highest rated shows and our most important sitcom, and we were able to do it in a way that wasn't public and wasn't acrimonious," the WB's co-entertainment president Jordan Levin said.

Levin and co-president Susanne Daniels said the network had determined an economic model that they said made sense in picking up the series.

"It's our understanding that in every case, the studio will be making a significant profit from the show overall," Daniels said. "In terms of their strength on the network, we addressed every show accordingly."

The execs also said that The WB had been in talks to renew the quartet of series even before 20th Century Fox moved Buffy to UPN late last month.

Charmed remains in the 9pm Thursday slot, but will be partnered with Popstars and the relationship gameshow Eliminate Deluxe. Gilmore Girls, which formerly occupied the 8pm slot moves to Tuesday, where it is partnered by Smallville. Angel replaces Roswell in the 9pm Monday slot.

With no announcement on how the show will cover Shannen's departure, fan speculation has Sabrina star Soleil Moon Frye replacing her as Prue for next season.

 

May 23, 2001 - Rumors that a Fourth Sister Will Be Introduced/Top choices include Jennifer Love Hewitt and Tiffani-Amber Thiessen

A few snippets from E! Online on Monday.

Supposedly in the final running as Shannen's replacement are Jennifer Love Hewitt and Tiffani [nee Tiffani-Amber] Thiessen. Wanda suggests that Grosse Points Irene Molloy should be a shoo-in.

A rumour currently flying around is that the Charmed producers taped an extra episode or two with Shannen (possibly as an insurance against a strike), but this appears to be slim. The likely storyline has Piper and Phoebe realising that there's another Halliwell offspring, either a sister or a cousin, who completes the Power of Three.

Chris B suggested that the new sister should be Piper's doppelgänger, which would allow Holly Marie Combs to play both roles. Sounds ideal to me...

 

June 3, 2001 - Hewitt turns down role as fourth sister

As an addition to Jennifer Love Hewitt turning down Charmed (see previous below), sources close to the show told the New York Post that the former Party of Five actress was approached to replace Shannen Doherty.

Although no reason was given as to why, zap2it.com suggests that she didn't feel it was time to return to TV, having recently starred with Sigourney Weaver in Heartbreakers and playing the devil opposite Alec Baldwin in the in limbo The Devil and Daniel Webster.

Doherty's departure, which is rumoured to have been prompted over a feud with Alyssa Milano, may be a sign of trouble behind the show's scenes. In addition, Holly Marie Combs has reportedly asked for and received a big per-episode raise, which allows her to pull in more money than Alyssa, the show's alleged star.

Other actresses whose names have been floated around for the role of the fourth Halliwell include Tiffani Thiessen (hopefully not), Soleil Moon Frye, Vanessa Marcil, Susan Ward and Irene Molloy. The latter would be an especially interesting choice since she played the Doherty-like star of a Beverly Hills, 90210-esque teen soap on the WB's cancelled Grosse Pointe. Thanks to Richard Morgan.

 

June 9, 2001 - Rose McGowan and Denise Richards are considered for Doherty's replacement

The latest names to emerge as Shannen Doherty's replacement are Rose McGowan and Denise Richards.

According to The New York Post, the actresses are being eyes as Piper and Phoebe's relative when season four airs later this year.

Richards, 29, is best known as the girl in the wet T-shirt in Wild Things. Her other films include Starship Troopers, Drop Dead Gorgeous, The World is Not Enough and Valentine. McGowan, 27, has appeared in The Doom Generation, Scream, Jawbreaker and Monkeybone. The pair also worked together in the 1997 independent feature Nowhere.

 

June 9, 2001 - Doherty claims Charmed is for 12 year olds

Shannen wasted no time in cursing her former show when she spoke out for the first time since leaving Charmed.

In the July issue of Moveline, she admitted that The WB drama was beneath her. "On Charmed, there were a couple of moments when I gave the most brutally honest performance I could ever have given as an actor," the 30-year-old actress said. "What you saw came from my gut. And when I looked at those moments, I knew that they weren't being given their proper due, because they were on Charmed. It's a show for 12-year-olds! I used to always think, 'Why can't I have that John Travolta comeback thing where I'm taken seriously?' I'm ready to take on bigger and better."

 

June 11, 2001 - Thiessen turns down role as fourth sister

The latest name to be ruled out as Shannen Doherty's replacement on Charmed is her replacement on Beverly Hills, 90210, Tiffani "don't call me Amber" Thiessen.

"Tiffani was our first choice to take over for Shannen - even before we asked Jennifer [Love Hewitt]," Aaron Spelling told Entertainment Weekly. "But Tiffani told us she wants to do a half-hour comedy" (NBC didn't pick up her sitcom pilot).

Since his big-name choices have passed, Spelling says the show is leaning towards a fresh face to play a younger witch in the Halliwell household, presumably ruling out the New York Post's rumours about Rose McGowan and Denise Richards and latest fan suggestion Carly Pope.

"She's going to be the long-lost sister Alyssa and Holly never knew that had. And wait until you see what we came up with to explain why she's been lost: Nobody ever knew she even existed." Hmmm...that idea sounds suspiciously familiar...

Spelling also says that the season three finale will be recut to explain the sudden disappearance of Prue.

 

June 13, 2001 - Doherty Explains Reasons for Leaving Charmed

Entertainment Tonight's website has a mini-interview with Shannen, where she discusses why she's leaving Charmed and her new film, Francis Ford Coppola's Another Day.

Entertainment Tonight: How did you get involved with this movie?

Shannen Doherty: I was sent the script and I was told that Francis Ford Coppola was producing, so I really didn't need to read it. I'm supposed to go meet him and hang out with him when I go back to L.A. Then I actually read the script, because I thought I should sort of know what I'm doing, and it was amazing. It sort of fell right along the lines of the decision of what I wanted to do with my career. I wanted to do work that was really fulfilling and really challenging. If I read something that I find a little scary because I'm not quite sure I can pull it off, that means I have to do it. That was the case with this script. It was so heavy emotionally that I thought, "Can I do this?" So, I took it and it's been amazing.

ET: Tell us about the story of this film and why you found it so compelling.

Shannen: I find the whole story compelling because it's about life and death, fate and destiny. It's a woman's journey, going through a tragedy and trying to make the best of that tragedy, and coming to terms with it and coming to terms with loss and death and then finding new love. It's a great movie.

ET: We want to set the record straight about you leaving Charmed.

Shannen: I think there's always going to be rumours. As far as I'm concerned, it adds to the whole mystery of my career. It certainly didn't hurt me after 90210 that there were rumours floating around. It won't really affect me now, either. I went in to Paramount in December and asked them to let me off the show. That was my request. I was unhappy, and I just felt that the work wasn't fulfilling, and that there was too much drama on the set and not enough passion for the work. I just didn't want to be a part of it. I'm 30-years-old and I don't have time for drama in my life anymore. I'm really focused and I just want to do good work and to prove my ability with actors who really care and who want to be there every single day. I don't want to be with people who ***** about their job, and complain about it and say that they hate it or anything else. I want to work with people who care as much as I do, because that's when you do your best work. I'll miss Holly (Marie Combs) a lot. That's really the only thing I want to clear up and I know that she wants to clear up. We've spoken like every single day since I've been in Winnipeg, and she's one of my best friends and I love her dearly. There were never, ever, any problems between the two of us.

ET: I think it's neat how you talked about the film you're doing now, with the tragedies and the ups and downs.

Shannen: It's so weird. Life imitates art, art imitates life. I've never felt more satisfied and calm and at peace and excited in my entire life. It's exciting, taking a huge risk of leaving a hit TV show, which is really only a hit for The WB. If we were on NBC, we would have been cancelled after like six episodes. But it's still a hit in its own right, and I think to leave that, to go into the unknown, is unbelievably exciting, because I can do anything. I woke up and I went, "Okay, I can take as many guitar lessons as I want. I can travel as much as I want. I can ride my horses as much as I want, and I can go do theatre as much as I want. I can do serious work." And that's amazing.

 

June 16, 2001 - McGowan is confirmed as Doherty's Replacement

Rose McGowan (right) has been officially confirmed as "the long-lost sister" that Piper and Pheobe never knew they had.

Born in Florence, and raised in a commune for the weirdo Children of God sex cult, 27-year-old McGowan is best known for her roles in the likes of Scream and Jawbreaker, as well as previously dating Marilyn Manson (who's a million times scarier than anything she'll meet on Charmed).

"We are truly fortunate to have the opportunity to work with Rose McGowan and believe she will bring a new and different dynamic to Charmed," said WB co-president Jordan Levin on Thursday, who must be counting on the show retaining its popularity now that Buffy has moved to UPN.

The actress replaces Shannen Doherty, who reportedly quit Charmed because of difficulties with co-star Alyssa Milano. Even though she directed the season three finale, Doherty and Milano reportedly didn't speak to each other unless it was absolutely necessary.

Doherty, who previously quit the Aaron Spelling-produced Beverly Hills, 90210 after a stormy tenure, initially said she left because, "I feel that I have accomplished everything I set out to do when I returned to series television."

Then in an interview with TV Guide, Doherty said, "I just didn't want to be a part of it...I don't want to work with people who ***** about their job and complain about it and say that they hate it or anything else."

More recently, in an interview with Movieline, she claimed that she had given "the most brutally honest performances" of her career but that this work was being wasted on a show "for 12-year-olds."

Aaron Spelling has said that the season three cliffhanger will be re-edited to write out Doherty's Prue. Talking with Entertainment Weekly about the new character, Spelling said: "she's going to be the long-lost little sister Alyssa and Holly never knew they had. And wait until you see what we came up with to explain why she's been lost: Nobody ever knew she existed."

McGowan's character hasn't been named yet, but she seems to be well-suited to the role, having previously been quoted as saying, "I think if I had lived back in Salem, I would have been burned at the stake."

 

June 30, 2001 - Brain Austin Green comes to Doherty's defense (interesting as it backs up claims later made by Combs)

In an interview with TV Guide Online, Shannen's former Beverly Hills, 90210 co-star Brian A. Green (looks like his real-life ex Tiffani-Amber Thiessen isn't the only one to change her name) had this to say about her: "There's one thing I have to say about Shannen. Everybody calls her a *****, but from day one of 90210 it's always been about the work for her. If she doesn't think something's good, she's gonna insist that it's changed and made better. Not because she's this control freak, but...How bad is it that your lead actress wants the show to be better? I'm not saying she's always used the best tactics, but if people would step outside their egos and try to understand that she's aggressive because she's passionate, it would be better. But they want to jump to a quick conclusion and just say she's 'difficult.'"

Source: TV Guide Online

 

July 17, 2001 - The WB execs claim that the AHBL finale was set up in case they lost one of their leads

While answering questions at the Television Critics Association gathering in Los Angeles, a number of The WB's own addressed what happened regarding Shannen Doherty's exit.

The network's Jordan Levin spoke of the matter, saying, "We knew last year that there were some decisions that probably had to be made in the best interest of Aaron Spelling and his company, our company and Shannen. And everybody came to the decision that they felt was mutually beneficial for all parties involved."

When asked if the season three finale was crafted in order to set up the entrance of a replacement for Doherty, Levin says, "We had an idea that we wanted to give ourselves some flexibility."

More specifically regarding the addition of Rose McGowan to the cast, Levin adds, "There's a history within the mythology that there could be another sister because of the [White] Lighter. We're still sort of hammering that out, and we haven't heard the full pitch yet and how that's going to work. But we're looking to bring in someone who could provide some conflict within the group and someone who could bring a younger audience into the show. We feel like Rose does that for us."

SOURCE: CINESCAPE ONLINE.

 

August 25, 2001 - Cast Interview with TV Guide, where we learn Doherty was indeed fired

AS ALYSSA MILANO AND HOLLY MARIE COMBS FINALLY COME CLEAN ABOUT SHANNEN DOHERTY, THE QUESTION REMAINS: CAN A RECONJURED CHARMED STILL WORK MAGIC?

Shannen Doherty may be long gone, but she hasn't been exorcised.

It's mid July, two months after the 30-year-old actress abruptly announced her departure from WB's Charmed, yet a giant poster featuring her still hangs in executive producer Brad Kern's office. The wayward with stands front and center between her original costars on the sisters-in-sorcery hit, Holly Marie Combs and Lori Rom. Rom, now on Sci Fi Channel's The Chronicle, was cast as youngest sib Phoebe in the pilot before producer Aaron Spelling replaced her—poof!—with his Melrose Place tenant Alyssa Milano. It's a striking image, impossible to miss, and Milano takes note of it the moment she arrives.

"Maybe witch No. 5 will be our lucky charm," she jokes, referring to Rose McGowan, 25, Doherty's replacement of sorts, who joins the comely coven this fall (Thursdays, 9 P.M. ET) as spirited half sister Paige. Milano settles onto a black leather couch and tries to keep the mood as bright as the lemon-colored lace-up top she's paired with snug low-rise jeans.

"You know, I have a dentist appointment this afternoon," she says. "I really wouldn't mind missing it, so feel free to keep me here as long as you'd like." But one look at the way Milano, 28, is perched tensely on the edge of her seat, drinking coffee from a jumbo mug, and you'd think she'd rather have a root canal than enduring an interview.

And not without reason: When Doherty left her Charmed role as eldest sister Prue last spring after three seasons, it was amid rumors of a bitter rivalry with Milano, something Doherty has not denied. The tabloid magnet's hasty exit seemed like déjà vu—after all, it was the second time in a decade she had bid adieu to a Spelling show after reports of friction with costars. (The first was in 1994, when she left Beverly Hills, 90210.) Her departure has left the future success of Charmed—which returns with a two-hour premiere September 27—in question at a time when WB is counting on it to continue enchanting viewers now that crown jewel Buffy the Vampire Slayer has pulled up stakes and moved to rival UPN.

Charmed hardly seemed jinxed when it debuted in the fall of 1998. The publicity surrounding Doherty's reunion with former boss Spelling helped the supernatural soap conjure up the highest-rated series debut in WB's history, while its modern mix of glamour and girl power warded off Dawson's Creek and Buffy, making it the network's second most popular show (after 7th Heaven, also produced by Spelling).

By all accounts, things were down right sisterly off-screen as well. "This is the best job I've ever had because we bonded immediately," Milano gushed about her costars in a February 1999 interview. "We have so much in common." For one, all three had grown up bewitching audiences on TV: Doherty on the short-lived spin-off Little House: A New Beginning, then on 90210; Milano on the hit comedy Who's the Boss?; and Combs on David E. Kelly's quirky Picket Fences. When Milano married rocker Cinjun Tate in January 1999, Doherty and Combs even served as bridesmaids. (Milano and Tate have since split.)

"We were very close for the first couple of years," says Combs, 27, who plays middle sister Piper. "It's not like we just worked together and went home."

But trouble was undeniably brewing between Doherty and Milano by the time production started on the third season last summer. The fawning quotes to the press had stopped, as had the costars' time together away from the set. As Milano puts it, "I wasn't going to call [Shannen] on the weekend to go hang out."

Rumors quickly swirled that Doherty was resentful of Milano's growing popularity, which translated into several endorsement deals, including one with MCI. But those close to the situation claim it was more complicated than that. "There were no angels," Combs says. "We all had our bad days. We all [got] stressed out."

That's hardly surprising, says executive producer Kern. "People on a TV set work together 12 to 14 hours a day, five days a week. Rarely have I seen cast members stay or even become best friends."

Adding to the friction, says Combs, was the stars' growing frustration with the show's direction. "We were in rut, where we felt like we were doing the same episodes over and over again," she says.

Doherty, in particular, "wanted to make the show bigger and better and stretch her boundaries," says Combs, who has been friends with the actress for eight years, and still speaks frequently with her. "I'd see her in the morning and she'd be like, 'OK, how are we going to fix this scene?' She was really dedicated and she didn't have a lot of patience for anyone [she felt] wasn't."

Whatever broke the spell, "we definitely didn't get along," admits Milano. "Shannen and I are very different people, and I think it's almost like a roommate. If you spend that much time with someone and there are differences anyway, you're not always going to get along."

Both Milano and Combs deny tabloid reports that Doherty would only speak to them when the cameras were rolling. But Milano acknowledges that she and her former costar could get downright witchy: "There were times when I'd come in and say, 'Good morning, Shannen,' and she didn't say anything to me. And there were times when she'd come in and say, 'Good morning, Alyssa,' and I wouldn't say anything to her."

In an attempt to defuse the situation, Paramount, the studio that produces Charmed, eventually sent a mediator to the set, something Combs said made things worse. "First of all, it was none of his business," she says. "And we certainly didn't want him reporting our girlie problems back to Paramount."

"The problems we had weren't things some big company mediator could fix," Combs adds quietly. "They needed to be fixed between us [by] going into [each other's] trailers and saying, 'All right, I don't like it when you do this.' Or, 'I didn't like it when you said this.'"

That apparently never happened. Doherty has contended that Milano eventually got fed up and issued producers an ultimatum—either Doherty walked or she would—but Milano insists that it isn't true. "I never even thought about doing that," she says. "I couldn't sleep knowing I backed out of something I'd committed to."

Instead, according to several sources, it was Doherty who approached Paramount executives last December and asked to be released from her contract. "[She] was like, 'This is getting too problematic. Just let me go,' " says Combs. "She didn't want to be the bad ogress again. She wanted to exit gracefully."

But the studio wouldn't have it. Continues Combs: "They stamped their feet and said, 'No, you cannot leave. We will sue you,'" (Both Paramount and Spelling declined to comment.)

Doherty's eventual dismissal, then, came as a surprise. And the form Combs says it took—a phone call to Doherty's lawyer after the embattled actress had flown to Winnipeg, Canada, to start shooting Another Day, USA's upcoming Francis Ford Coppola TV-movie—still clearly angers her. "How do you go from directing the season finale to being [given] a pink slip over the phone, when [you're] in another country, at eight at night?" Combs says. "It was really a tacky way to go about it."

"I'm sure I'm going to get many phone calls about this," she adds, "but you know what? I don't care. [The producers] know I was not happy with how it was handled. You just don't do that to a person, [especially] a person who has basically created two hit shows for you."

While no one's officially saying why Doherty was ultimately cut loose, a series insider says, "It eventually became clear that [either Doherty or Milano] had to go." And Doherty may have been the safer choice, according to Stacey Lynn Koerner, an industry analyst with Initiative Media: "Alyssa is just as popular, if not more so, than Shannen. And when Shannen left 90210, the series did just fine."

Whether Charmed can still work its magic without Doherty remains to be seen. But WB and Kern are putting on a brave face. "If we'd lost two girls, then I'd be nervous," he says. "But nobody would've been OK with making the change if they were [worried]. That's why I keep that poster [with the pilot's original threesome]. I believe the show has become bigger than any one of us."

Adds WB entertainment president Jordan Levin: "We've got two really great stars in Alyssa and Holly. Adding Rose to the cast brings a whole new dynamic that's edgy and compelling." McGowan pops up in the season premiere, which includes a funeral for Doherty's Prue, who was left for dead after battling a demon in last spring's finale. Another plot twist: Julian McMahon, who plays Milano's baddie boyfriend Cole, has recently begun dating Doherty. But he shrugs off any awkwardness with Milano: "To be honest, I'm usually pretty oblivious to that stuff."

Milano, too, claims she's put her issues with Doherty to rest. "I have a lot of respect for her," says Milano of her former costar, with whom she has not spoken since their last day on the set. "I think she's incredibly smart and talented, and I wish her happiness, love, success."

But closure hasn't come as easily to Combs. While she says she still has a good relationship with Milano, she felt "a definite sense of loss" when she returned to the set in July. "In a way," Combs says, "I have to treat this as a brand-new job, a totally different show I'm doing, because if I [don't], it's going to be a really hard year."

Edited January 16 by Garbo89

[IBeMe]

Too young to remember this show tbh but I remember my mom watching it and thinking the older one was so pretty lol rest in peace Shannen

Edited January 17 by IBeMe

[John Slayne]

Shannen was the best actress and Prue the best character on the show, and the first 4 seasons clear the rest of the show. I wish Shannen and Constance stayed at the helm, their direction for the show was so much better than all that magic school bs they introduced in later seasons

[Hyune]

She was one of my faves and it was sad when she died but I know lots of shows where my faves died

 

Saddest will always be Vincent on bones but Prue is definitely up there too never was the same after her 

[Bencharmer]

It was so poorly done and.... 

 

It feels like Prue didn't have a proper "death" seen on screen. Plus the fact they never were able to use Shannen Doherty pictures made it so hard to me to get the idea.

 

I mean you know what happened between the actresses and the production. But that truly impacted the show in a way you couldn't properly mourn the character.

 

There was a like a huge blank they didn't manage to fill up. 

 

 

[Lorelei]

On 1/16/2025 at 2:11 PM, MattieB said:

Alyssa Milano will always be enemy number one for this, shortly before her death Shannon revealed her firing derailed her entire life and took a well paying job/food off her table. All because miss pheobe wanted to be no.1 on the calling sheet

People dogpiling on Alyssa when all of them showed problematic behavior on set and ESPECIALLY the producers creating this atmosphere to keep them apart is kinda ridiculous. Several actors who worked on the show said all of them were fighting and they were not very friendly.

Shannen, may she rest in peace was a good actress but she had a mighty negative reputation back then and her complaining about Alyssa and wanting her fired is pretty much confirmed by an ex Beverly Hills co star that visited Shannen on set . It's insane that people suddenly forget that Shannen had been fired from 2 shows and not very nice things were said about her character by a number of people who had worked with her in the past.

It was very clear from the start that was HER show and she chose the other two actresses until Lori Rom backed out and Spelling brought in Alyssa. That's the first hint on why things fell apart : Shannen did not pick Alyssa and probably would have never chosen her for the part. Alyssa's popularity grew along with her ego and things started escalating. I side eye HMC a lot because she sounds like a stuck up bitter shrew online about this and cant seem to choose if she's friends with one side or the other which tells me that the hostile work environment claim was very valid and nobody gets fired because one actor just don't like working with them. Charmed was reportedly a horrendous set with rude directors, messy writers and a showrunner who cared only about fan service and nothing substantial. 

It's also hilarious when people say if Shannen had stayed the show would have been better when the problem was Brad Kern who booted off the show's creator so he could push his sexist ideas and the writing got worse by each season. It would have turned out to be a mess whether Shannen left or stayed regardless.