base talk Why Beyonce's Cowboy Carter WON'T win AOTY

[Zaynsus]

Whitney and Céline both won AOTY for albums they had zero songwriting or producing credits on. They need to stop making excuses, give Bey that damn award.

Edited November 12 by Zaynsus

[Spark]

20 hours ago, Jay07 said:

Oh it's a trust me bro situation. Ok.

I love Beyoncé, and think she deserves AOTY just for the masterful curation she does for each project (and I believe she does write too). But, there have been plenty of concept demos that have leaked which are literally 90% the same except a few words changed where Beyoncé has top billing on the songwriting. For example:

 

 

Obviously she has changed and added lyrics here, but enough to be billed as the second songwriter on the song? Please. 

Edited November 12 by Spark

[swissman]

On 11/10/2024 at 5:57 AM, Rv1709 said:

 

 

So is what are saying that there is a bias against albums with more songwriters?

[swissman]

8 hours ago, Spark said:

I love Beyoncé, and think she deserves AOTY just for the masterful curation she does for each project (and I believe she does write too). But, there have been plenty of concept demos that have leaked which are literally 90% the same except a few words changed where Beyoncé has top billing on the songwriting. For example:

 

 

Obviously she has changed and added lyrics here, but enough to be billed as the second songwriter on the song? Please. 

What does this prove though exactly? Yes she changed only some lyrics, and for that she got a credit for adding to the final song. Just as it occurs when ANYONE ELSE changes her songs. That's why her cousin has writing credits on songs like Upgrade U for filling in a word Beyoncé couldn't think of. That's why though she HAS solo-written some tracks in her career, officially they aren't "solo written" because producers have credits, or people who added a line in have credits. This logic that she's not a songwriter because of these examples needs to apply to the other examples too.

 

 

Edited November 12 by swissman

[swissman]

Can we be real for just ONE second though?

 

The tweet in the OP is not accurate.

[swissman]

"Beyoncé steals songwriting credits"

 

*Beyoncé re-recoreds Jolene, adds new verses and a completely new outro with new lyrics and melody and the only person credited as a songwriter is Dolly Parton*

 

*Beyoncé has far more credited writers than any other AOTY nomineee*

 

*Beyoncé credits samples/interpolations, whereas other fellow AOTY nominees (and at least one winner) do not*

 

 

Edited November 12 by swissman

[Spark]

3 hours ago, swissman said:

What does this prove though exactly? Yes she changed only some lyrics, and for that she got a credit for adding to the final song. Just as it occurs when ANYONE ELSE changes her songs. That's why her cousin has writing credits on songs like Upgrade U for filling in a word Beyoncé couldn't think of. That's why though she HAS solo-written some tracks in her career, officially they aren't "solo written" because producers have credits, or people who added a line in have credits. This logic that she's not a songwriter because of these examples needs to apply to the other examples too.

 

 

I never said she's not a songwriter. I don't have an issue with her changing some lyrics and getting credit (as she should), but getting second billing (i.e. in a legal sense having the second highest contributions to the song) is crazy.

[swissman]

24 minutes ago, Spark said:

I never said she's not a songwriter. I don't have an issue with her changing some lyrics and getting credit (as she should), but getting second billing (i.e. in a legal sense having the second highest contributions to the song) is crazy.

Valid. And yes I apologize for putting words in your mouth about the "not a songwriter" thing. I sort of got ahead of myself there.

 

I personally don't think the order of names on credits that no one even really looks at is that important, but I do get your point. I think the answer to this is probably that Pharrell (the song's first billed name), Beyoncé and Jay-Z were also the songs' producers and for all but 2 songs on the album, a co-writer who was also a co-producer is bumped to the front.

 

 

Edited November 12 by swissman

[305]

It also won't win because it's just not good 

[GagaChina]

hit me hard and soft deserves aoty

[BGKC]

On 11/11/2024 at 5:22 AM, shimind said:

Her previous albums which actually made some impact like self titled and renaissance failed to win AOTY then why would CC win one. This nomination is undeserved because even her own fans are not streaming this album. Imo Espresso alone shits on Beyonce's entire discography so sAbrina should get this one 

Not the "Say So" carbon copy 

 

 

[superben]

Most overrated artist, Grammy-wise.

[Relampago.]

it's not gonna win but this isn't the reason why

[Sabrina Carpenter]

y'all dragging Taylor to hurt OP's feelings but he's a known OTH  dummies

 

but goddamn all those writers and the other nominated albums have 3-4x less while also being better than CC  

[Don]

On 11/10/2024 at 12:03 PM, masochizm said:

Who the f cares? 4 writers and Taylor's album is still cringe from tip to toe, it produced some of the corniest lyrics of the century. 

 

we declared charlie puth should be a bigger artist 

 

 

thats less corny than a 43 old mother singing " **** it, we shakin yayayayayayyaa  We swimmin' yayayayayayyaa We jerkin yayayayayayyaa  We twerki' yayayayayayyaa "

[on the line]

27 minutes ago, Don said:

thats less corny than a 43 old mother singing " **** it, we shakin yayayayayayyaa  We swimmin' yayayayayayyaa We jerkin yayayayayayyaa  We twerki' yayayayayayyaa "

To be clear, those lyrics are just bad, but not bc she is a 43 year old mother. It made me laugh tho.

[Venice B]

I could see her finally winning AOTY with Cowboy Carter but it will be kinda bittersweet to see her finally winning with this mid at best album when she should've on already with Lemonade and Renaissance.

[superben]

1 hour ago, Don said:

thats less corny than a 43 old mother singing " **** it, we shakin yayayayayayyaa  We swimmin' yayayayayayyaa We jerkin yayayayayayyaa  We twerki' yayayayayayyaa "

In Beyonce's defense, she didn't write those lyrics. It's the writing camp's fault.

[Kristie Kuwa]

1 hour ago, Don said:

thats less corny than a 43 old mother singing " **** it, we shakin yayayayayayyaa  We swimmin' yayayayayayyaa We jerkin yayayayayayyaa  We twerki' yayayayayayyaa "

This is a clear reference to Tina Turner, but ok. Tell me u dont get it without telling me u dont get it 

[Kingdom]

47 minutes ago, Kristie Kuwa said:

This is a clear reference to Tina Turner, but ok. Tell me u dont get it without telling me u dont get it 

You know some people here are deeply clueless and the their range is from Britney spears - lady gaga. Just culturally clueless...Yikes

[Burn]

26 minutes ago, Kingdom said:

You know some people here are deeply clueless and the their range is from Britney spears - lady gaga. Just culturally clueless...Yikes

they WISH their faves could pull off a song like Ya Ya 

[masochizm]

1 hour ago, Kristie Kuwa said:

This is a clear reference to Tina Turner, but ok. Tell me u dont get it without telling me u dont get it 

culture-less swifties exposing themselves all the damn time

[Shinning]

5 hours ago, Sabrina Carpenter said:

y'all dragging Taylor to hurt OP's feelings but he's a known OTH  dummies

 

but goddamn all those writers and the other nominated albums have 3-4x less while also being better than CC  

According to whom?

[Cruel Summer]

I'll be honest - I've never understood this particular criticism of Beyoncé's work.

 

The singular, unified vision and concept for the bodies of work she creates are still clearly there. Grammy voters aren't (or shouldn't be, anyway) rating the amount of that vision that was solely and exclusively executed upon by the artist with lead billing - they're rating the final product itself. There could be a thousand people on an album that still deserves, due to its quality and its impact on listeners, to win AOTY.

[MattieB]

On 11/10/2024 at 11:06 AM, Aramis said:

Because she's a black woman. Next question.

doesn't she have the highest amount of grammys for a woman?