base talk Why Beyonce's Cowboy Carter WON'T win AOTY

[on the line]

18 minutes ago, BlossomSoul said:

i updated it and it's actually 64

This is adding proof to my theory that they just cannot give Beyonce AOTY because logistically they do not have enough Grammium material to make that many statutes. Grammy's are on a budget!!

[Buffy]

If anyone's looking for a job, apply for Beyoncé.

[Burn]

2 minutes ago, on the line said:

This is adding proof to my theory that they just cannot give Beyonce AOTY because logistically they do not have enough Grammium material to make that many statutes. Grammy's are on a budget!!

Again, icymi:

 

3 hours ago, Kiss It Better said:

per Grammy website, here the number of people who would be awarded if the album wins AOTY:

The Rise and Fall of a Midwest Princess: 4 (includes 2 songwriters)

Djesse Vol. 4: 5 (includes 1 songwriter)

New Blue Sun: 6 (includes 4 songwriters)

HIT ME HARD AND SOFT: 8 (includes 2 songwriters)

BRAT: 10 (includes 5 songwriters)

Cowboy Carter: 13 (includes 7 songwriters)

Short n Sweet: 15 (includes 7 songwriters)

The Tortured Poets Department: 17 (includes 3 songwriters)

I'm afraid they'd have to use more Grammium if they awarded TTDP.

[on the line]

17 minutes ago, Comedor said:

Honestly, it would be great to see Taylor work with a larger group of people. It would help bring fresh ideas and perspectives, which I think are much needed in her work. Billie is a new artist and with a lower release pace, so no fatigue there, at least for now.

 

But I guess that's how Taylor works best, and managing a large creative team is not easy. In fact, that's something Beyonce deserves more credit for. She is really good at keeping everyone aligned and delivering a cohesive body of work.

 

In my line of business we would say Beyonce is an exceptional project manager. But go off OBH! 

L-O-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L

 

 

 

(Ugh, I wish I could live in this sort of delusional world the next 4 years.)

[visions]

The amount of writers Beyoncé has and how her albums always manage to be so cohesive and personal is quite a testament. She clearly knows how to pick collaborators to help make the album the way she wants it to sound. 

 

I'd rather that than sticking with the same tired collaborators project after project. 

 

That being said, self (or mostly self) written albums will always be so incredibly impressive to me, but not every artist has to give that to be deserving of awards or acclaim. 

[BlossomSoul]

4 minutes ago, visions said:

The amount of writers Beyoncé has and how her albums always manage to be so cohesive and personal is quite a testament. She clearly knows how to pick collaborators to help make the album the way she wants it to sound. 

 

I'd rather that than sticking with the same tired collaborators project after project. 

 

That being said, self (or mostly self) written albums will always be so incredibly impressive to me, but not every artist has to give that to be deserving of awards or acclaim. 

An album with that many songwriters could either be great or a mess, true

[NEUTRON]

23 minutes ago, Draper. said:

Realize there's a one minute interlude that features 5 existing songs to simulate radio programming, another interlude that's literally an existing song, and two covers. Without even counting samples. 

 

This doesn't work as a drag tho because Cowboy Carter remains a better album than most of the others and it only shows that maybe your girls should be working with more people.

THIS

 

[NEUTRON]

11 minutes ago, on the line said:

(Ugh, I wish I could live in this sort of delusional world the next 4 years.)

it would be better than the one you're currently living in because Taylor definitely needs to broaden her horizons.

 

The reviews for TTPD clearly indicate that

Edited Sunday at 03:22 PM by NEUTRON

[thirdward]

28 minutes ago, BlossomSoul said:

I'm presenting information based on songwriters on each song. I'm not going by who is officially getting Grammy recognized. You can make your own thread about that if you'd like

but your thread is obviously on why she's not winning a Grammy award and to discredit her so when not use their criteria

Edited Sunday at 03:25 PM by thirdward

[NEUTRON]

3 hours ago, Mr.X said:

From the Grammys own website, you can see that CC has pretty much equal numbers of nominated writers/producers/Engeneers as Sabrinas or Taylor's album:

 

2025 GRAMMYs: See The OFFICIAL Full Nominations List

Album Of The Year

Award to Artist(s) and to Featured Artist(s), Songwriter(s) of new material, Producer(s), Recording Engineer(s), Mixer(s) and Mastering Engineer(s) credited with 20% or more playing time of the album.)

 

New Blue Sun – André 3000

André 3000 & Carlos Niño, producers; André 3000, Carlos Niño & Ken Oriole, engineers/mixers; André 3000, Surya Botofasina, Nate Mercereau & Carlos Niño, songwriters; Andy Kravitz, mastering engineer

 

COWBOY CARTER – Beyoncé

Beyoncé, Terius "The-Dream" Gesteelde-Diamant & Dave Hamelin, producers; Matheus Braz, Brandon Harding, Hotae Alexander Jang, Dani Pampuri & Stuart White, engineers/mixers; Ryan Beatty, Beyoncé, Camaron Ochs, Terius "The-Dream" Gesteelde-Diamant, Dave Hamelin, S. Carter & Raphael Saadiq, songwriters; Colin Leonard, mastering engineer

 

Short n' Sweet – Sabrina Carpenter

Jack Antonoff, Julian Bunetta, Ian Kirkpatrick & John Ryan, producers; Bryce Bordone, Julian Bunetta, Serban Ghenea, Jeff Gunnell, Oli Jacobs, Manny Marroquin, John Ryan & Laura Sisk, engineers/mixers; Amy Allen, Jack Antonoff, Julian Bunetta, Sabrina Carpenter, Ian Kirkpatrick, Julia Michaels & John Ryan, songwriters; Nathan Dantzler & Ruairi O'Flaherty, mastering engineers

 

BRAT – Charli xcx

Charli xcx, Cirkut & A. G. Cook, producers; A. G. Cook, Tom Norris & Geoff Swan, engineers/mixers; Charlotte Aitchison, Henry Walter, Alexander Guy Cook, Finn Keane & Jonathan Christopher Shave, songwriters; Idania Valencia, mastering engineer

 

Djesse Vol. 4 – Jacob Collier

Jacob Collier, producer; Ben Bloomberg, Jacob Collier & Paul Pouwer, engineers/mixers; Jacob Collier, songwriter; Chris Allgood & Emily Lazar, mastering engineers

 

HIT ME HARD AND SOFT – Billie Eilish

FINNEAS, producer; Thom Beemer, Jon Castelli, Billie Eilish, Aron Forbes, Brad Lauchert, FINNEAS & Chaz Sexton, engineers/mixers; Billie Eilish O'Connell & Finneas O'Connell, songwriters; Dale Becker, mastering engineer

 

Chappell Roan The Rise And Fall Of A Midwest Princess – Chappell Roan

Daniel Nigro, producer; Mitch McCarthy & Daniel Nigro, engineers/mixers; Daniel Nigro & Kayleigh Rose Amstutz, songwriters; Randy Merrill, mastering engineer

 

THE TORTURED POETS DEPARTMENT – Taylor Swift

Jack Antonoff, Aaron Dessner & Taylor Swift, producers; Zem Audu, Bella Blasko, Bryce Bordone, Serban Ghenea, David Hart, Mikey Freedom Hart, Sean Hutchinson, Oli Jacobs, Jonathan Low, Michael Riddleberger, Christopher Rowe, Laura Sisk & Evan Smith, engineers/mixers; Jack Antonoff, Aaron Dessner & Taylor Swift, songwriters; Randy Merrill, mastering engineer

---

end of thread.

[teenager]

Beyoncé has a lot of writers but she also keeps pushing boundaries with her work.

 

ST -> Lemonade -> RN -> CC 

 

Look at the material.

Edited Sunday at 03:31 PM by teenager

[BlossomSoul]

11 minutes ago, thirdward said:

but your thread is obviously on why she's not winning a Grammy award and to discredit her so when not use their criteria

My thread is to debate how many songwriters you personally think are needed on an album - it's subjective. To some, Beyonce made a great album and Billie made a boring one, regardless of writers. I don't think Billie should win because she only has 2 writers

[Klein]

34 minutes ago, Comedor said:

Honestly, it would be great to see Taylor work with a larger group of people. It would help bring fresh ideas and perspectives, which I think are much needed in her work. Billie is a new artist and with a lower release pace, so no fatigue there, at least for now.

 

But I guess that's how Taylor works best, and managing a large creative team is not easy. In fact, that's something Beyonce deserves more credit for. She is really good at keeping everyone aligned and delivering a cohesive body of work.

 

In my line of business we would say Beyonce is an exceptional project manager. But go off OBH! 

I personally don't care (nor want tbh) Taylor to work with many other songwriters. One of her body of work's biggest strength is that it is from her own perspective and experiences, and I think it should stay that way. I'd prefer if she kept it to one actual lyricist (not the producers, who are not necessarily good lyricists) that would help her focus on the most important aspects and provide some editing when necessary, but nothing more. Kinda like Liz Rose back in the day. 

 

However, I think it would be great for her to have another album like Red, in the sense of bringing many new producers on the table. But I'm not really sure she cares about making another sonic shift for the moment tbh. She seems to love and thrive in these synth-pop/acoustic-driven productions. 

 

 

OT: who cares about the number of songwriters/producers/etc if you like the music? I'm not even sure the Grammy committee cares that much about it. 

[Jeremiah]

I hope all 64 people win 

[BlossomSoul]

8 minutes ago, Jeremiah said:

I hope all 64 people win 

They all deserve a grammy to be fair

[G.U.Y_Del_Rey]

Insane that Billie and Finneas wrote and produced such an incredible album just by themselves 

 

 

 

[BloodLuster]

and that's why Billie and Taylor will keep snatching AOTYs no matter what haters say

[StonedSoulPicnic]

I don't think it matters. Collaboration is a beautiful thing. 

[djcalpal]

2 hours ago, Burn said:

Oh wow I didn't realise it was called "Best Songwriter of the Year" award I thought it was "Album of the Year". Thanks for letting us know. 

To clarify, I'm not a fan of the project either - regardless of how many songwriters were involved. It is by no stretch this year's best album, commercially or artistically. 

 

Ariana and Magdalena Bay release two of the strongest bodies of work this year, and neither are up for the award. 

[Mr.X]

11 minutes ago, StonedSoulPicnic said:

I don't think it matters. Collaboration is a beautiful thing. 

this

[Ikejuju]

5 hours ago, Navyofbadgals said:

I mean there's more than one cover, there's samples. Anyone actually outraged or surprised by this shouldn't be speaking on the quality of music cause clearly they don't know enough

This…

[Lovett]

21 minutes ago, BloodLuster said:

and that's why Billie and Taylor will keep snatching AOTYs no matter what haters say

Yeah, that's why.

[djcalpal]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Nation said:

Frank Sinatra won AOTY thrice without writing a single song from those records. Several cover albums have won this award too.

 

AOTY should be about rewarding the best front-to-back listening experience, the most successfully executed project in terms of themes and sounds, regardless of the amount of people who contributed to its creation. Not to mention Beyoncé famously incorporates several samples across her albums, which inflate the number of people involved due those credits. Not much different to the creative philosophy of many rap albums, which definitely also had this aspect held against them in previous AOTY races.

 

I wonder what makes Beyoncé and Kendrick Lamar different from Frank Sinatra... 

I don't think this is a fair comparison. The music industry has changed drastically since 1960. That was a time when majority of singers didn't write their own music - hence the necessity for separate record labels and publishers. This is well documented, especially in the time of mo-town. Whether or not songwriting should be a judging criteria for Album of the Year is subjective, but I'm far more impressed by an artist who possesses both skillsets - as are most Grammy voters as evidenced by recent winners. 

[bielneira]

Because it's not good enough.

[R.E.M.]

Yeah the "songwriting" excuse doesn't really work when SZA lost AOTY despite being, first and foremost, a songwriter with a critically acclaimed album that had 10 weeks at #1 and two monster smashes. Looking at observable, objective date we can see that there is a clear racial bias among Grammy voters that has not been fixed. 

 

Taylor Swift alone has more AOTY awards than the total number of Black women to have won AOTY which, since 1959, is only 3 women. In fact, the last Black woman to have won AOTY was 25 years ago. We all know why Beyonce won't win AOTY and it has nothing to do with samples, writing credits, or "writing camps".