base talk Why Beyonce's Cowboy Carter WON'T win AOTY

[Kingdom]

3 hours ago, Mr.X said:

From the Grammys own website, you can see that CC has pretty much equal numbers of nominated writers/producers/Engeneers as Sabrinas or Taylor's album:

 

2025 GRAMMYs: See The OFFICIAL Full Nominations List

Album Of The Year

Award to Artist(s) and to Featured Artist(s), Songwriter(s) of new material, Producer(s), Recording Engineer(s), Mixer(s) and Mastering Engineer(s) credited with 20% or more playing time of the album.)

 

New Blue Sun – André 3000

André 3000 & Carlos Niño, producers; André 3000, Carlos Niño & Ken Oriole, engineers/mixers; André 3000, Surya Botofasina, Nate Mercereau & Carlos Niño, songwriters; Andy Kravitz, mastering engineer

 

COWBOY CARTER – Beyoncé

Beyoncé, Terius "The-Dream" Gesteelde-Diamant & Dave Hamelin, producers; Matheus Braz, Brandon Harding, Hotae Alexander Jang, Dani Pampuri & Stuart White, engineers/mixers; Ryan Beatty, Beyoncé, Camaron Ochs, Terius "The-Dream" Gesteelde-Diamant, Dave Hamelin, S. Carter & Raphael Saadiq, songwriters; Colin Leonard, mastering engineer

 

Short n' Sweet – Sabrina Carpenter

Jack Antonoff, Julian Bunetta, Ian Kirkpatrick & John Ryan, producers; Bryce Bordone, Julian Bunetta, Serban Ghenea, Jeff Gunnell, Oli Jacobs, Manny Marroquin, John Ryan & Laura Sisk, engineers/mixers; Amy Allen, Jack Antonoff, Julian Bunetta, Sabrina Carpenter, Ian Kirkpatrick, Julia Michaels & John Ryan, songwriters; Nathan Dantzler & Ruairi O'Flaherty, mastering engineers

 

BRAT – Charli xcx

Charli xcx, Cirkut & A. G. Cook, producers; A. G. Cook, Tom Norris & Geoff Swan, engineers/mixers; Charlotte Aitchison, Henry Walter, Alexander Guy Cook, Finn Keane & Jonathan Christopher Shave, songwriters; Idania Valencia, mastering engineer

 

Djesse Vol. 4 – Jacob Collier

Jacob Collier, producer; Ben Bloomberg, Jacob Collier & Paul Pouwer, engineers/mixers; Jacob Collier, songwriter; Chris Allgood & Emily Lazar, mastering engineers

 

HIT ME HARD AND SOFT – Billie Eilish

FINNEAS, producer; Thom Beemer, Jon Castelli, Billie Eilish, Aron Forbes, Brad Lauchert, FINNEAS & Chaz Sexton, engineers/mixers; Billie Eilish O'Connell & Finneas O'Connell, songwriters; Dale Becker, mastering engineer

 

Chappell Roan The Rise And Fall Of A Midwest Princess – Chappell Roan

Daniel Nigro, producer; Mitch McCarthy & Daniel Nigro, engineers/mixers; Daniel Nigro & Kayleigh Rose Amstutz, songwriters; Randy Merrill, mastering engineer

 

THE TORTURED POETS DEPARTMENT – Taylor Swift

Jack Antonoff, Aaron Dessner & Taylor Swift, producers; Zem Audu, Bella Blasko, Bryce Bordone, Serban Ghenea, David Hart, Mikey Freedom Hart, Sean Hutchinson, Oli Jacobs, Jonathan Low, Michael Riddleberger, Christopher Rowe, Laura Sisk & Evan Smith, engineers/mixers; Jack Antonoff, Aaron Dessner & Taylor Swift, songwriters; Randy Merrill, mastering engineer

---

END THREAD!!!

[BlossomSoul]

25 minutes ago, Badgalbriel said:

The other 3 are Jack (her producer), Aaron (other producer) and Post (Fortnight) 

Actually 5 we must not forget Florence 

[Burn]

4 minutes ago, BlossomSoul said:

i updated it and it's actually 64

So now you're just pulling numbers outta your ass? Bc the post I quoted clearly states 7 songwriters not 64.

Edited November 10 by Burn

[Kingdom]

Its 2024, some of you popper taking homosexuals still don't know why samples have to be credited. Worms for brains, i fear.

[Moonlight Nation]

2 hours ago, djcalpal said:

CC is basically a compilation album at this point. If her team didn't force songwriters to give up 50% of their publishing to her (despite her having no involvement in the writing process) in order to be included on her projects, she would be ineligible. She's a brilliant singer and entertainer, but compared to some of the actual songwriters she's up against, she doesn't deserve this specific accolade. 

Frank Sinatra won AOTY thrice without writing a single song from those records. Several cover albums have won this award too.

 

AOTY should be about rewarding the best front-to-back listening experience, the most successfully executed project in terms of themes and sounds, regardless of the amount of people who contributed to its creation. Not to mention Beyoncé famously incorporates several samples across her albums, which inflate the number of people involved due those credits. Not much different to the creative philosophy of many rap albums, which definitely also had this aspect held against them in previous AOTY races.

 

I wonder what makes Beyoncé and Kendrick Lamar different from Frank Sinatra... 

[Broken]

@BlossomSoul

Update the title:

Number of writers on AOTY noms: Billie 2, Beyoncé: 64

 

 

 

[BlossomSoul]

Just now, Burn said:

So now you're just pulling numbers outta your ass? Bc the post I quoted clearly states 7 songwriters not 64.

I took all the song writers on each album track (no producers) and deleted repeats. That's why it took me an hour to update the graphic

[BlossomSoul]

1 minute ago, Broken said:

@BlossomSoul

Update the title:

Number of writers on AOTY noms: Billie 2, Beyoncé: 64

 

 

 

    I'll let the people have their own takeaways 

[Comedor]

2 minutes ago, King_Lonnie said:

We can always tell when the girls don't have songwriters because they continue to make basic pop songs 

Honestly, it would be great to see Taylor work with a larger group of people. It would help bring fresh ideas and perspectives, which I think are much needed in her work. Billie is a new artist and with a lower release pace, so no fatigue there, at least for now.

 

But I guess that's how Taylor works best, and managing a large creative team is not easy. In fact, that's something Beyonce deserves more credit for. She is really good at keeping everyone aligned and delivering a cohesive body of work.

 

In my line of business we would say Beyonce is an exceptional project manager. But go off OBH! 

[BlossomSoul]

28 minutes ago, King_Lonnie said:

We can always tell when the girls don't have songwriters because they continue to make basic pop songs 

Interesting take. I'm not saying you're wrong

[Arrows]

Is everyone prepared for the inevitable "Beyoncé should've won this!" speech when Billie wins AOTY?

[PrettyHurts]

Does it really matter, she's lost 50 times now 

[Kingdom]

4 minutes ago, Moonlight Nation said:

Frank Sinatra won AOTY thrice without writing a single song from those records. Several cover albums have won this award too.

 

AOTY should be about rewarding the best front-to-back listening experience, the most successfully executed project in terms of themes and sounds, regardless of the amount of people who contributed to its creation. Not to mention Beyoncé famously incorporates several samples across her albums, which inflate the number of people involved due those credits. Not much different to the creative philosophy of many rap albums, which definitely also had this aspect held against them in previous AOTY races.

 

I wonder what makes Beyoncé and Kendrick Lamar different from Frank Sinatra... 

Oop

[illia]

Billie Eilish's is very impressive

[holyground13]

The argument against Beyoncé for the amount of writers on her records is so weak. Renaissance and Cowboy Carter sound immaculate - like the type of work that takes a sea of collaborators. She wanted to work with multiple people so she could fuse their style with hers and create amazing music that result in the masterworks that are her albums. It's a major strength of hers because she realises that having multiple collaborators can yield the best results for her albums which are bought and listened to by millions.

[Doogle]

48 minutes ago, Kalmanta said:

One day people will realize that Bey's work is intentionally collaborative, no wonder when you get results like 4, SelfTitled, Lem, The Gift, Ren and CC!

Like … how is this a drag lmao her music is FAR beyond the other girls for a reason!

[BlossomSoul]

1 minute ago, Comedor said:

Honestly, it would be great to see Taylor work with a larger group of people. It would help bring fresh ideas and perspectives, which I think are much needed in her work. Billie is a new artist and with a lower release pace, so no fatigue there, at least for now.

 

But I guess that's how Taylor works best, and managing a large creative team is not easy. In fact, that's something Beyonce deserves more credit for. She is really good at keeping everyone aligned and delivering a cohesive body of work.

 

In my line of business we would say Beyonce is an exceptional project manager. But go off OBH! 

I don't disagree with this. I would like to see Billie and Taylor work with other writers

[Burn]

Just now, BlossomSoul said:

I took all the song writers on each album track (no producers) and deleted repeats. That's why it took me an hour to update the graphic

That's not how it works. What it says on the official Grammy website goes and those are the official nominees (including the number of songwriters nominated). You can't just decide for yourself that you're gonna add more and present it as truth.

 

Well you can of course and some people will believe you but it's up to them if they choose to believe an ATRLer over a genuine source.

[Arrows]

3 hours ago, masochizm said:

Who the f cares? 4 writers and Taylor's album is still cringe from tip to toe, it produced some of the corniest lyrics of the century. 

 

we declared charlie puth should be a bigger artist 

 

 

Another attempt at trying to make a thread about Taylor

[Draper.]

Realize there's a one minute interlude that features 5 existing songs to simulate radio programming, another interlude that's literally an existing song, and two covers. Without even counting samples. 

 

This doesn't work as a drag tho because Cowboy Carter remains a better album than most of the others and it only shows that maybe your girls should be working with more people.

[Heldenzeit]

and that's why Billie is deservingly taking it!  Bey tried though

[BlossomSoul]

Just now, Burn said:

That's not how it works. What it says on the official Grammy website goes and those are the official nominees (including the number of songwriters nominated). You can't just decide for yourself that you're gonna add more and present it as truth.

 

Well you can of course and some people will believe you but it's up to them if they choose to believe an ATRLer over a genuine source.

I'm presenting information based on songwriters on each song. I'm not going by who is officially getting Grammy recognized. You can make your own thread about that if you'd like

[BlossomSoul]

3 minutes ago, Draper. said:

Realize there's a one minute interlude that features 5 existing songs to simulate radio programming, another interlude that's literally an existing song, and two covers. Without even counting samples. 

 

This doesn't work as a drag tho because Cowboy Carter remains a better album than most of the others and it only shows that maybe your girls should be working with more people.

Wasn't supposed to be a drag

[Draper.]

Just now, BlossomSoul said:

Wasn't supposed to be a drag

Some people are seeing it as one. 

[uusagii]

Oh yuck