celeb news Luke B to Bey: If you're gonna make country albums, come into our world & be country

[Lyrical.]

3 hours ago, QueenBLadyG said:

He's right. The Country community Is well connected and personable, and they may be a problematic, but, that's how it is. She should've been prepared to travel to Nashville, perform and at least interact with them in some form or fashion. This whole dropping material and walking away from it and letting the cards fall as they may - is getting old as ****. She could've made this album an unforgettable moment in pop culture history and ended up winning AOTY if she navigated this better. 

She already did this with the CMAs and felt unwelcome. So I understand why she wouldn't want to interact with that community again.

 

I understand your point of view with the dropping of music and disappearing though, it is getting old.

[Polgg48]

lashes after lashes is too much, why bey why? let's focus on song of the year/record of the year and win there for the best bit

[Rotunda]

It can simultaneously be true that Bey is held to a harsher standard than white artists crossing over into country and that she could have done much more to make this era feel like a genuine embrace of the genre. 
 

Bey's refusal to beg for recognition from a racist industry is fair, but it's hard to complain about losing when you didn't go all out in an attempt to win. 

Edited October 4 by Rotunda

[swissman]

25 minutes ago, iHype. said:

Plenty of white artists have gotten nominations via R&B/Hip-Hop music that were relevant and well received with the demographic of BET & Soul Train Awards. 

Yes, I know. But if they aren't (many white artists who have made well-received R&B/Hip-Hop have not been nominated) it wouldn't be an issue of them not trying to brush shoulders with the R&B/Hip-Hop community enough. It would be because the nature of these awards have a specific purpose that is entirely different to that of the CMAs.

 

25 minutes ago, iHype. said:

And the explanation is being given to you — she completely disassociated herself with the Country industry this era and even said it wasn't a Country album. 

lol I guess maybe her "this isn't a country album, this is a Beyoncé album" did fly over people's heads and they took it too literally, but either way, an explanation is not the same as a valid reason. I know most awards are like this, but if an artist needs to schmooze her way into a nomination, then it's really not an award based on merit anymore, is it? And that's the point. I personally don't care that she's not nominated, but I care that people think she had to do x, y, and z to get one when, when all she really should do is release a great work in the country genre, which she did.

 

25 minutes ago, iHype. said:

She also did not have a Country radio hit. Texas peaking below top 20 and being gone after a few weeks is extremely minimal to the point it wouldn't even be a top 100 most played song on the format during year-end. 
 

So then maybe her fans should actually listen to her message and not continue to get outraged and beg Country award outlets to acknowledge her 
 

A Top 40 country radio hit is a Top 40 radio country hit. It may not have been long-lasting nor substantial but it certainly was at a time one of the Top 40 most played country songs on country radio. I wasn't trying to make it seem like it was some smash, but replying to the idea that she had no hit on country radio whatsoever.

 

25 minutes ago, iHype. said:

So then maybe her fans should actually listen to her message and not continue to get outraged and beg Country award outlets to acknowledge her 

All fans do this, regardless of message.

 

 

Edited October 4 by swissman

[swissman]

3 minutes ago, Rotunda said:

It can simultaneously be true that Bey is held to a harsher standard than white artists crossing over into country and that she could have done much more to make this era feel like a genuine embrace of the genre. 
 

Bey's refusal to beg for recognition from a racist industry is fair, but it's hard to complain about losing when you didn't go all out in an attempt to win. 

She never complained about it.

[Rotunda]

Just now, swissman said:

She never complained about it.

I think you get my point 

Edited October 4 by Rotunda

[swissman]

Just now, Rotunda said:

I'm not saying she did 

Sorry if I misunderstood but it was rather implied with "it's hard to complain about losing when you didn't go all out in an attempt to win".

 

Who else would "you" be in this scenario but Beyoncé?

[swissman]

7 minutes ago, Rotunda said:

I think you get my point 

I see you edited so I'll reply to this.

I do get your point overall, I was just trying to correct the statement as it was written as there seems to be an ongoing lie of that very nature that paints her into someone who routinely complains about lost awards or nominations.

 

 

Edited October 4 by swissman

[swissman]

Beyoncé doesn't even promote her work anymore. It's been a steady decrease for over a decade now and when she started doing this in 2013 it already seemed excessive and self-sabotaging. Now, we basically have her doing zero promo whatsoever. She seems to enjoy it this way, and she's certainly smart enough to know that if she wants different results she'll have to do things differently. But, she hasn't done things differently, in fact she's doubling and tripling down on it, so we can only assume she is satisfied and unbothered by any of this, which is to say: claiming Beyoncé shoul suck up to the country community in order to earn her nominations at an ward show is both absurd in the sense that awards shouldn't be about that AND that you'd think she'd break her long-standing elusiveness just to get nominations/approval from people who are probably not going to like her either way.

 

 

Edited October 4 by swissman

[Rotunda]

11 minutes ago, swissman said:

Sorry if I misunderstood but it was rather implied with "it's hard to complain about losing when you didn't go all out in an attempt to win".

 

Who else would "you" be in this scenario but Beyoncé?

 

6 minutes ago, swissman said:

I see you edited so I'll reply to this.

I do get your point overall, I was just trying to correct the statement as it was written as there seems to be an ongoing lie of that very nature that paints her into someone who routinely complains about lost awards or nominations.

 

 

That's my bad for being unclear. The "you" was meant to be general statement, but on reread I realized it's easier to interpret it the other way.

[Dante]

mama a luke b behind u

[xluvxduffxmusicx]

The lack of lies

[ariesgroove]

this loaded ass statement lol

[iHype.]

19 minutes ago, swissman said:

Yes, I know. But if they aren't (many white artists who have made well-received R&B/Hip-Hop have not been nominated) it wouldn't be an issue of them not trying to brush shoulders with the R&B/Hip-Hop community enough. It would be because the nature of these awards have a specific purpose that is entirely different to that of the CMAs.

That would more than likely also be the exact issue if a white artist was snubbed from BET, Soul Train, R&B Grammy categories, etc. 

 

As I said, plenty of non-black artists have gotten nominations and awards from those academies. Sam Smith, Bruno Mars, Eminem, Justin Timberlake, etc. 

 

If the music actually connects with the R&B/Hip-Hop demographic and consumers they really will nominate it regardless of them being non-black. 
 

If Taylor put out an R&B album and it got completely ignored then it'd most likely would be it failed to generate any interest with the actual consumer demo for R&B in addition to her not having any relationship with platforms such as BET and Soul Train. 

25 minutes ago, swissman said:

A Top 40 country radio hit is a Top 40 radio country hit. It may not have been long-lasting nor substantial but it certainly was at a time one of the Top 40 most played country songs on country radio. I wasn't trying to make it seem like it was some smash, but replying to the idea that she had no hit on country radio whatsoever.

Let's be actually realistic lmao. A #33 peak on Country radio is absolutely not a hit. Radio plays the same 10 songs to begin with, so for a song to be played less than 32 others is such a relatively small share of radio time. Then to plummet into obscurity after a few weeks with no longevity from that very small peak to top it off. 

 

29 minutes ago, swissman said:

I know most awards are like this, but if an artist needs to schmooze her way into a nomination, then it's really not an award based on merit anymore, is it?

Right, because the same thing can be said about the GRAMMYs. Not only is it known they are heavily politics, they have had more racial bias accusations with their choices than any Country award shows, Beyoncé's own fans have said they're racist with her in categories, Jay-Z complained about her treatment in categories.

 

Yet in contrary to her prerogative with Country awards, Beyonce continues to show up for them every era and wants to work with them. To me, her stances (along with her fans) are a bit contradicting but I digress.

 

[swissman]

31 minutes ago, iHype. said:

 

That would more than likely also be the exact issue if a white artist was snubbed from BET, Soul Train, R&B Grammy categories, etc. 

 

As I said, plenty of non-black artists have gotten nominations and awards from those academies. Sam Smith, Bruno Mars, Eminem, Justin Timberlake, etc. 

 

If the music actually connects with the R&B/Hip-Hop demographic and consumers they really will nominate it regardless of them being non-black.

 

Okay so what does it tell you that more white artists have won/been nominated for BET Awards than Black artists have won/been nominated at the CMAs? One award is meant to honour Black artistry, the other is meant to honour a genre. The BET Awards are 23 years old. The CMAs are 57 years old. One could argue that there simply aren't as many Black artists making country as there are white artists making R&B/Hip-Hop, but then that points to another issue with discrimination and segregation, considering "country" as a title for the genre was created to separate Black artists from white artists making similar music.

 

So does this really mean Black artists simply aren't trying hard enough to schmooze their way into the country industry?

And if they aren't, is there a reason for that?

Have they tried and weren't welcomed, like Linda Martell in the late 1960s/early 1970s?
Have they tried and weren't welcomed, like Beyoncé in 2016?

 

 

Edited October 4 by swissman

[iHype.]

6 minutes ago, swissman said:

One could argue that there simply aren't as many Black artists making country as there are white artists making R&B/Hip-Hop

That is exactly the case.

7 minutes ago, swissman said:

but then that points to another issue with discrimination and segregation, considering "country" as a title for the genre was created to be separate Black artists from white artists making similar music.

You completely didn't think of the biggest reason: The vast majority of the black population does not care or have any interest in Country music. 
 

Best example being how many black Country artists have you seen get platforms in BLACK SPACES such as BET? It's so minimal and irrelevant because Country music is largely minimal and irrelevant to the black population. 

[byzantium]

So Nashville is a community of people that know each other and it take time and effort to be welcomed into the community, but it will be quite loyal as well.  
 

Beyoncé is at the point now where she does not really want to promote her music and likely does not have any desire to fly to Nashville to talk with radio, have dinner with the writers and artists of the town, feature on their albums etc.  And that is fine, she does not have to at all.  But if you juxtapose that with post Malone who has done those things, it seems easy to see the difference in reception.  
 

I think it's a little entitled to act like Beyonce needs to be embraced by a community she has not embraced.  Zack Bryan has a similar issue as he operates outside the Nashville system and also receives minimal of any nominations at these type of awards….which again is fine…it does not take away from their ultimate work.  
 

Anyways, overall this is kind of a mute issue because CC does not really deserve to win even if it was nominated.  Which is disappointing because we all heard lemonde and know Beyonce can make a killer country album.  CC just seems to expose some of the weaknesses of Beyonce as an artist without showcasing her strengths.  It's obviously will produced and performed, but the material seems to lack the depth of a great album.  

[Cheers]

He got big

[swissman]

1 hour ago, iHype. said:

 

That is exactly the case.

You completely didn't think of the biggest reason: The vast majority of the black population does not care or have any interest in Country music. 
 

Best example being how many black Country artists have you seen get platforms in BLACK SPACES such as BET? It's so minimal and irrelevant because Country music is largely minimal and irrelevant to the black population. 

I think it's unfair to say the reason the CMAs don't nominate many Black artists is because "The vast majority of the black population does not care or have any interest in Country music."

Especially because in the 1920s when the music industry began to take shape they segregated Black musicians out of the genre. They wanted a way to differentiate Black artists who made "country" music from white artists who made "country". So white artists were put under the labels of "Hillbilly music" (later "country") and Black artists were put under the label of "Race music" (later "Blues"). This essentially made two categories for styles of music that were at the time more similar than they were different.

 

To make an easy analogy, if a group of people told you not to sit with them 100 days in a row and on the 101st day you stopped coming to their table as frequently. When you mentioned that they excluded you on the 200th day and they say "How would you know you barely come near our table anymore"... does that make the exclusion any less true, any less valid? And when you do sit down on the 200th day, and half the table is uncomfortable and rolling their eyes, do you finally feel welcomed?

 

Basically the same can be said for the CMAs, where (I think) just two black artists have ever won an award, where a Black artist (Beyoncé in 2016) coming to do exactly what this Luke guy said Beyoncé should do was given a negative experience despite the fact that she was also performing with a bonafide country band (themselves 10x CMAs winners).

 

 

Edited October 4 by swissman

[swissman]

30 minutes ago, byzantium said:

Anyways, overall this is kind of a mute issue because CC does not really deserve to win even if it was nominated.  Which is disappointing because we all heard lemonde and know Beyonce can make a killer country album.  CC just seems to expose some of the weaknesses of Beyonce as an artist without showcasing her strengths.  It's obviously will produced and performed, but the material seems to lack the depth of a great album.  

Um, from AMERIICAN REQUIEM to AMEN it's filled with depth, meaning, symbolism, allusions. Its ambition may not be to everyone's tastes, but one thing you cannot fault it for is lacking depth, of all things. From discussing the hardships of being a young-teen in the industry, to poignant songs about her children, to the intricacies of loving yet hating your man, there's a lot to take in.

 

Even something as simple as covering The Beatles' Blackbird but changing nothing about the instrumental whatsoever (except removing the bird noises) says a lot about her intention at the start of the album, that a bunch of Black women singing "folk" or "country music" is just as valid and true to the genre as anyone else.

[Comedor]

A hot topic, get them talking, as Shaboozey sits at #1. CC did that! 

[iHype.]

47 minutes ago, swissman said:

I think it's unfair to say the reason the CMAs don't nominate many Black artists is because "The vast majority of the black population does not care or have any interest in Country music."

Well it's a good thing I didn't say that.

 

I said that is the reason as to why there isn't many black country artists in general.

 

The reality is there is very very few black Country artists presently and the biggest factor is because Country doesn't appeal to the vast majority of modern black people in general. 
 

If black country artists exist as an extremely small minority to begin with, ofcourse unfortunately they are going to have been represented very small in most aspects of the Country industry. 
 

The reality is not that there is tons of black Country artists everywhere you look and they're just all being ignored. Even in black platforms and environments we almost *never* see black Country artists and that is because they are very rare to come across. 

 

 

[Joaco95]

On 10/3/2024 at 12:48 PM, Scheissex said:

A Bar Song is #1 because of Tik Tok, not because he was featured on a random Beyonce album track that no one has streamed since April  Please be for real. 

baby you are a lana stan

[DiabeticGrandpa]

On 10/3/2024 at 2:40 PM, swissman said:

Why are you resorting to homophobia so often in this thread? What does it serve you?

 

Anyway, the impact has mainly been on Black artists in the country genre, many of which have had massive spikes in streams and sales, including Shaboozey who now has the LONGEST running #1 hit of 2014, is one of the longest running #1 hits of all time.

Now, why did you cross out "unique work" and "create a moment in the genre". Both of those are explicitly true. You can prove otherwise though by telling me how many other albums sound like COWBOY CARTER if it's not unique, and by showing how little discussion there was about the album leading up to its release.

She is not responsible for that  if anything it's Morgan Wallen that made country popular again 

[byzantium]

1 hour ago, swissman said:

Um, from AMERIICAN REQUIEM to AMEN it's filled with depth, meaning, symbolism, allusions. Its ambition may not be to everyone's tastes, but one thing you cannot fault it for is lacking depth, of all things. From discussing the hardships of being a young-teen in the industry, to poignant songs about her children, to the intricacies of loving yet hating your man, there's a lot to take in.

 

Even something as simple as covering The Beatles' Blackbird but changing nothing about the instrumental whatsoever (except removing the bird noises) says a lot about her intention at the start of the album, that a bunch of Black women singing "folk" or "country music" is just as valid and true to the genre as anyone else.

I'm happy you feel that way and get that out of the music.  For me she mentions interesting and deep topics but does not really dive into them like she did in Self Titled and Lemonade.