base talk Sincere question: when is the right time for an artist to be "allowed to flop"?

[AgentChain]

Let's face it: our faves won't be on top forever and time has proven that music stars come and go throughout the years.

 

With that being said, at what point in their career do you tell to yourself that it's okay for your fave to "flop"?

 

[Pheromosa]

When you can go top 10 by selling 40k 

[BlazingLovatic]

When they're doing something very experimental or that diverges from the usual successful studio albums they're known for, which means they have a lower level of institutional support (from their label/mgmt and the industry generally) than they're used to

 

e.g. Selena's Revalacion, Demi's Holy ****, Miley's Can't Be Tamed

[motherpills]

if the music quality is still good or empirically 4 albums which were all relatively successful

[DevilsRollTheDice]

Honestly, when you can tour and fill up big venues off your name alone. Many so called "legends" don't really make it to this point. 

[mike_int]

What is your definition of "flop"

 

sales, chart positions or quality of music.

 

 

You have albums which are musically very "beige" and uninspiring but since they follow trend they will be commercially successful but wont bring anything new music-wise.

Then you have artists who release less commercial and pretentious, more experimental  piece of work, which widen up their range and be great quality sonically and lyrically.

 

Personally I prefer quality of the music and artistic growth over chart positions.

 

Edited September 26 by mike_int

[Lose My Breath]

Who cares, as long of the quality of the music is there

[lonnie]

Honestly, it's never that serious. Failure can happen to anyone, and the higher the high the more possibility of a fall. I will say though: flopping with great music >>>>>>>>>>>>> succeeding with mediocre music >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flopping with bad music.

[Leppie]

I think once they've established themselves as a legend, success and chart numbers don't really matter.

[MonsterNavy]

anytime an artist is releasing art and music they genuinely love and not trying so hard to get #1s, hits, huge numbers and chart like witness, smile and 143

 

 

[queenoftheclouds]

Females? Never

Males? Always

[Gelato]

artists I like will always be protected from flop allegations

artists I don't like are never given a free pass and will always be lashed

 

[Bloodflowers.]

When they're at a point they become a legacy act and don't need hits to prove themselves anymore + ageism strikes 

 

Nobody is clowning Madonna for flopping with MDNA when she was successful for 25 years and scoring hits in each era by that point. She was clowned for making a terrible album to comeback after 4 year gap from Hard Candy tho 

 

[Erreur2 La Nature]

In my opinion when they've got enough hits and have had enough impact on the music industry that will prevent them from being forgotten. Like, no one cares if Madonna, Céline, Mariah, Britney, Beyoncé, Rihanna and more flop. They've all accomplished so much, they're among the most famous persons on Earth, have had insane sales, fame, impact, etc... flopping commercially speaking won't affect their past achievements.

[Selegend]

when u still have a current successful career even flopping.

 

cuz u're still able to sell out big tours (a lot of legacy singers, for example)

or cuz u have other ventures (like business / acting) going strong. 

 

Edited September 26 by Selegend

[fememeist]

For Halsey: never

[ChooseyLover]

The answer is simple for me: music not the bling. If the quality of the music is genuinely great or even if it's an ambitious risky mess with a vision I'll like it or at least respect it. But if they do music for the charts and it flops because it sucks, I'll just ignore that song/album in the long run.

Edited September 26 by ChooseyLover

[loveisdead9582]

If the quality of the music is there after a long, successful career then it doesn't matter. If half your career (or longer) has been a massive flop then…

[KahnumDash]

30 minutes ago, queenoftheclouds said:

Females? Never

Males? Always

spill

[pavi]

Honestly, when people respect your music for your art and creativity instead of the numbers it does. Then flopping is never not allowed imo (although i can get mad at the gp for letting good music flop). 

[gab00]

I think when an artist can still push a succesful tour + been over 20 years in the Game they kinda get the anti flop shield

[Vespertine]

I think ~10 years into your mainstream career is pretty respectable. No one can argue that you didn't have staying power or were a one-era wonder, and at that point you would've already seen multiple waves of new singers come and go. Up-and-coming artists would probably be crediting you as an inspiration already. You'll likely have enough loyal fans for a residency or tour, and a top 10 album debut. 

[swissman]

Flops are valid when either:

1. The work is of such unassailable artistic merit that its commercial success or failure has no impact on the perception of it or the artist
2. The artist is or was never a large commercial seller to the extent that their numbers don't have an effect on the perception of the album or the artist
3. The artist is a certified legend, well past their prime to the extent that their numbers (successful or not) would neither significantly add to nor detract from their legacy
4. The work is clearly and calculatingly not trying to appeal to the masses or sell huge amounts either in execution or promotion.

 

I also don't believe we need to spend much time admonishing flops, they happen, but certainly when an artist is gunning (perhaps in a very cringey way) towards commercial success and barely takes any musical risks or artistic innovations in their attempt to not flop, then discussion of that flop status is partially warranted and at least an interesting topic to discuss.

[Illuminati]

When they're unproblematic and make good music. Nobody comes for Carly no matter how well her music sells because she always comes through with quality

[gab00]

And honesly if this thread is about Katy there's nothing wrong with her flopping.

 

the attacks on her are a combination of kiis, Kesha stans mad at her (with all due reason), Gaga stans having their usual stan war fun, and Katy fans who jinxed this as katys Big comeback being called out.

 

Oh and more thing, crítics are coming for Katy for her mediocrity. Not for her commercial sucess, age, gender, nor because they're liddos. There's a consensus this last one piece of work was mediocre, lets not forget about that pls.

Edited September 26 by gab00